Mapping session at Mech Repairs with Mark Adams
Discussion
I had the ACT / Mark Adams Tornado tuning kit fitted to my Griff last month by David Batty. The kit included the higher flow rate spray pattern injectors, larger Bosch MAFM and updated Tornado EPROM. I already have the ACT carbon fibre plenum trumpets ACT manifolds, smooth bore induction hoses etc.
I booked a session with Rover V8 mapping guru Mark Adams at Mech Repairs in Cheltenham. The first couple of hours were spent with Mark and Brian from Mech completing a full diagnostic of the car. I was surprised at how much detail Mark and Brian went into testing the car before the mapping session. The ignition system, fuel system, EFI sensors and ECU, plugs and camshaft where all scrutinised. Mark and Brian did identify an issue with the coil, not outputting enough voltage, this was changed for a Bosch coil. Further inspection of the old coil showed that it was a non branded version and the seal had gone resulting in all the oil leaking out.
I asked Mark to run a power run on the car as is before any mapping took place as a control so I could see the difference once the car was mapped.
The initial run showed the car was running quite lean but was still making good power. Mark tells me that the dyno at Mech repairs reads about 21% under what most others do so based on the figure of 229BHP that equates to 277BHP which ties in with exactly what mine made on the North London Dyno at Growl Dyno last year.
Initial Run
Mark increased the fueling and the power figure increased by 9BHP to 238BHP, but still running lean. Mark increased the fueling again and the BHP figure went up to 245BHP. Still not entirely happy Mark also adjusted the timing on the dizzy and now she was running spot on and made a final figure of 247BHP which + the 21% works out at 298.87BHP.
Final Run
The following graph shows the before and after runs overlayed
Comparison
I will be very interested to see what the car makes on the North London Dyno at the Growl this year.
More important than the increase of power is the fact that the car now drives very nicely indeed. The road manners are much improved, no shunting, no idle issues and no hunting. My car has always had an issue where if it is below freezing I cannot simply start the car and drive off I have to leave it running for a couple of minutes which amuses my neighbours no end. The reason for this is that if I go anywhere near the accelerator it floods and stalls. Since having Mark's chip and custom map on there I can start the car and drive straight away without any issues. The car had also recently developed a very irritating idle issue where it would idle at 2k which made it very difficult to control at low speeds. I am pleased to report that this issue has also bee resolved.
For anyone thinking about having this done I whole hardheartedly recommend it. Watching Mark work his magic is fascinating and he certainly is a master of his craft.
So what next.....
Maybe a new cam, ACT twin throttle Carbon plenum and an Omex ignition processor to complement the 14CUX fueling. Probably not until next year now though.
Matthew
I booked a session with Rover V8 mapping guru Mark Adams at Mech Repairs in Cheltenham. The first couple of hours were spent with Mark and Brian from Mech completing a full diagnostic of the car. I was surprised at how much detail Mark and Brian went into testing the car before the mapping session. The ignition system, fuel system, EFI sensors and ECU, plugs and camshaft where all scrutinised. Mark and Brian did identify an issue with the coil, not outputting enough voltage, this was changed for a Bosch coil. Further inspection of the old coil showed that it was a non branded version and the seal had gone resulting in all the oil leaking out.
I asked Mark to run a power run on the car as is before any mapping took place as a control so I could see the difference once the car was mapped.
The initial run showed the car was running quite lean but was still making good power. Mark tells me that the dyno at Mech repairs reads about 21% under what most others do so based on the figure of 229BHP that equates to 277BHP which ties in with exactly what mine made on the North London Dyno at Growl Dyno last year.
Initial Run
Mark increased the fueling and the power figure increased by 9BHP to 238BHP, but still running lean. Mark increased the fueling again and the BHP figure went up to 245BHP. Still not entirely happy Mark also adjusted the timing on the dizzy and now she was running spot on and made a final figure of 247BHP which + the 21% works out at 298.87BHP.
Final Run
The following graph shows the before and after runs overlayed
Comparison
I will be very interested to see what the car makes on the North London Dyno at the Growl this year.
More important than the increase of power is the fact that the car now drives very nicely indeed. The road manners are much improved, no shunting, no idle issues and no hunting. My car has always had an issue where if it is below freezing I cannot simply start the car and drive off I have to leave it running for a couple of minutes which amuses my neighbours no end. The reason for this is that if I go anywhere near the accelerator it floods and stalls. Since having Mark's chip and custom map on there I can start the car and drive straight away without any issues. The car had also recently developed a very irritating idle issue where it would idle at 2k which made it very difficult to control at low speeds. I am pleased to report that this issue has also bee resolved.
For anyone thinking about having this done I whole hardheartedly recommend it. Watching Mark work his magic is fascinating and he certainly is a master of his craft.
So what next.....
Maybe a new cam, ACT twin throttle Carbon plenum and an Omex ignition processor to complement the 14CUX fueling. Probably not until next year now though.
Matthew
My Griff 500 also takes a bit of time to warm up when it is very cold.
It has improved since I fitted a Bosch coil, magnecor leads, new plug extensions and NGK plugs, but it still likes to get some heat in the engine before it revs without hesitation.
Hot running is perfect, no hesitation
Additionally all other aspects of the engine appear fine and it idiles realy well @ 900-100rpm, but it still hesitates slightly when very cold.
I had decided that it must be a Griff thing, "they all do that" but now hearing you cured yours, could you tell me what the problem was.
It has improved since I fitted a Bosch coil, magnecor leads, new plug extensions and NGK plugs, but it still likes to get some heat in the engine before it revs without hesitation.
Hot running is perfect, no hesitation
Additionally all other aspects of the engine appear fine and it idiles realy well @ 900-100rpm, but it still hesitates slightly when very cold.
I had decided that it must be a Griff thing, "they all do that" but now hearing you cured yours, could you tell me what the problem was.
T1pper said:
My Griff 500 also takes a bit of time to warm up when it is very cold.
It has improved since I fitted a Bosch coil, magnecor leads, new plug extensions and NGK plugs, but it still likes to get some heat in the engine before it revs without hesitation.
Hot running is perfect, no hesitation
Additionally all other aspects of the engine appear fine and it idiles realy well @ 900-100rpm, but it still hesitates slightly when very cold.
I had decided that it must be a Griff thing, "they all do that" but now hearing you cured yours, could you tell me what the problem was.
P.S I also fitted a ACT smooth bore induction pipe kit with new Piper Cross flat panel air filter, do know if this is important??
Hi T1pper,It has improved since I fitted a Bosch coil, magnecor leads, new plug extensions and NGK plugs, but it still likes to get some heat in the engine before it revs without hesitation.
Hot running is perfect, no hesitation
Additionally all other aspects of the engine appear fine and it idiles realy well @ 900-100rpm, but it still hesitates slightly when very cold.
I had decided that it must be a Griff thing, "they all do that" but now hearing you cured yours, could you tell me what the problem was.
P.S I also fitted a ACT smooth bore induction pipe kit with new Piper Cross flat panel air filter, do know if this is important??
I also changed for magnecor leads, new plug extensions, NGK plugs new rotor arm and dizzy cap in an attempt to cure a hesitation as misfire on mine a couple of years back. If did solve the problem and the car certainly behaved much better.
The cold start issue wouldn't normally bother me but I live in a small courtyard so when I start the Griff up early in the morning you can imagine what it sounds like reverberating off of the houses so I like to get going ASAP.
The cold starting solution I believe is standard as part of Mark's Tornado software. Here is an extract from an email conversation I had with Mark before purchasing the Tornado EPROM:
Mark Adams said said:
The Tornado software upgrade covers the following items as a minimum. With the exception of full load fuelling over 3100RPM on catalyst cars, or general fuelling on non-catalyst cars, these cannot easily be achieved from outside the ECU:
- Cranking fuel decreased to reduce the risk of flooding, with small starting delay to allow oil pressure to build before starting.
- Decreased cold and warm up fuelling to reduce the risk of flooding.
- Quicker more progressive throttle response, and better mid range torque. Full-load enrichment throttle map revised.
- Re-profiled fuel map, which provides good fuel economy on part throttle and allows engine to rev more freely. Fuel map extended to 6,500RPM (typically) for more accurate top-end fuelling.
- Idle speed stabilised to give smoother idle, and increased engine braking.
- Airflow meter re-scaling - Vital for good driveability and fuel economy, especially on large capacity engines. Allows correct control of part throttle fuelling.
- Note that airflow meter Scaling determines when the top of the fuel map is reached. When using an engine of larger capacity than the software was designed for, the top of the map will be reached too soon. This leads to over-fuelling at part throttle, and under-fuelling at full throttle.
- Cranking fuel decreased to reduce the risk of flooding, with small starting delay to allow oil pressure to build before starting.
- Decreased cold and warm up fuelling to reduce the risk of flooding.
- Quicker more progressive throttle response, and better mid range torque. Full-load enrichment throttle map revised.
- Re-profiled fuel map, which provides good fuel economy on part throttle and allows engine to rev more freely. Fuel map extended to 6,500RPM (typically) for more accurate top-end fuelling.
- Idle speed stabilised to give smoother idle, and increased engine braking.
- Airflow meter re-scaling - Vital for good driveability and fuel economy, especially on large capacity engines. Allows correct control of part throttle fuelling.
- Note that airflow meter Scaling determines when the top of the fuel map is reached. When using an engine of larger capacity than the software was designed for, the top of the map will be reached too soon. This leads to over-fuelling at part throttle, and under-fuelling at full throttle.
CHIMV8 said:
Impressive increase in figures Matt.
Is the engine basically standard other than the trumpets etc?
What's the cost damage for the tune up at Marks?
Thanks Mark. I was very impressed myself when the dyno kept churning out bigger figures in response to Mark's mapping. I wasn't actually looking for more power, I was most concerned about getting is to drive correctly. The main incentive was to solve the idle problems, cold start and low speed manners.Is the engine basically standard other than the trumpets etc?
What's the cost damage for the tune up at Marks?
Marks time is £60 per hour and the dyno is also £60 per hour so a combined cost of £120 per hour. My car was in for 3.5 hours although Mark very kindly only charged me for 3 hours. The first 2 hours were spent completing a full diagnostic of the car. Once Mark was happy that everything was working just so he spent 1.5 hours mapping the car setting up the fueling and then adjusting the timing.
Engine itself is a standard TVR 500 engine with stock internals. The only mods I have done are the 'bolt on' type such as trumpets, smooth-bore inlet etc.
Matthew
Hi Matthew
Just out of curiosity? How easy is it to book mark for a session ? I'm looking for a decent remap now I've got
A new cam and bv heads and all the the other usual mods.
I've got another 500 miles of run in time so would be looking to get hold of mark after this period
Many thanks pete
Just out of curiosity? How easy is it to book mark for a session ? I'm looking for a decent remap now I've got
A new cam and bv heads and all the the other usual mods.
I've got another 500 miles of run in time so would be looking to get hold of mark after this period
Many thanks pete
grngriff said:
Hi Matthew
Just out of curiosity? How easy is it to book mark for a session ? I'm looking for a decent remap now I've got
A new cam and bv heads and all the the other usual mods.
I've got another 500 miles of run in time so would be looking to get hold of mark after this period
Many thanks pete
Hi Pete,Just out of curiosity? How easy is it to book mark for a session ? I'm looking for a decent remap now I've got
A new cam and bv heads and all the the other usual mods.
I've got another 500 miles of run in time so would be looking to get hold of mark after this period
Many thanks pete
Sounds like you have a nice engine there. The 430 Big Valves have the best character IMO.
Mark is very busy and therefore can be quite difficult to get hold of. His skills are very much in demand and I know he gets swamped with inquiries. My advice would be to be persistent. He is not always in the country as he does a lot of work in middle east mapping desert racers for the Arabs.
My session I booked with Mark about a month in advance.
Matthew
CHIMV8 said:
I had the ACT / Mark Adams Tornado tuning kit fitted
Where did you buy this,or did DB supply and fit?
I purchased the kit through Tim at ACT. I gave the new injectors, MAFM and EPROM to David Batty to fit and then arranged with Mark to get setup on the Rolling Road at Mech repairs.Where did you buy this,or did DB supply and fit?
Hey Matthew, the SC project is on hold at the moment, small fortune recently spent on the car and tbh when the main cat came out the sudden difference in performance was astonishing, problem now is traction rather than power... So, concentrating on getting the N/A set-up running perfectly and the rest of her mint...
Chilliman said:
Hey Matthew, the SC project is on hold at the moment, small fortune recently spent on the car and tbh when the main cat came out the sudden difference in performance was astonishing, problem now is traction rather than power... So, concentrating on getting the N/A set-up running perfectly and the rest of her mint...
Bloody hell Chilli are you feeling OK??? That sounds rather sensible. 
I thought you were already running decat. My power and torque went up a bit when I took mine out (about 5BHP and 10 torques) but this was because the cat had started to deteriorate. It actually felt like 50BHP with the extra noise!
Good luck with the setup fella.
Hi Matt,
Glad that all went well with Mark and Brian, I thought that you would enjoy the experience!
More importantly the results...
As you know the only difference between our cars is that I have also fitted the ACT twin throttle Carbon plenum, Manifolds and complete exhaust, with Cats and did buy the Non-Cat sections and ran them for a while but the fumes started to get to me at certain speeds and in traffic, the noise was awesome though, too 'awesome' for some of the Track Days I wanted to do though, so Cat sections back in!
They managed to get 268 BHP from mine...
I have had a new Cam and Top End rebuild but in the hands of a decent 'specialist' they could do a compression and more importantly 'leak down' test to see if the Cam needs to be replaced/Valves need looking at...
Do you ever get down to any of the events at Goodwood?
Regards
Steve
Glad that all went well with Mark and Brian, I thought that you would enjoy the experience!
More importantly the results...
As you know the only difference between our cars is that I have also fitted the ACT twin throttle Carbon plenum, Manifolds and complete exhaust, with Cats and did buy the Non-Cat sections and ran them for a while but the fumes started to get to me at certain speeds and in traffic, the noise was awesome though, too 'awesome' for some of the Track Days I wanted to do though, so Cat sections back in!
They managed to get 268 BHP from mine...
I have had a new Cam and Top End rebuild but in the hands of a decent 'specialist' they could do a compression and more importantly 'leak down' test to see if the Cam needs to be replaced/Valves need looking at...
Do you ever get down to any of the events at Goodwood?
Regards
Steve
EGB said:
Good posts these. Steve what new cam did you fit. Any idea where Matthew is getting the extra 30bhp from if the systems are near the same.
Mark tells me that the dyno at Mech repairs reads about 21% under what most others do so based on the figure of 229BHP on the first run that equates to 277BHP which ties in with exactly what mine made on the North London Dyno at Griff Growl last year so this theory stands to reason.Mine made a final figure of 247BHP which + the 21% works out at 298.87BHP.
Steve's made a 268BHP which + the 21% works out at 324.28BHP
A500TVR said:
Hi Matt,
Glad that all went well with Mark and Brian, I thought that you would enjoy the experience!
More importantly the results...
As you know the only difference between our cars is that I have also fitted the ACT twin throttle Carbon plenum, Manifolds and complete exhaust, with Cats and did buy the Non-Cat sections and ran them for a while but the fumes started to get to me at certain speeds and in traffic, the noise was awesome though, too 'awesome' for some of the Track Days I wanted to do though, so Cat sections back in!
They managed to get 268 BHP from mine...
I have had a new Cam and Top End rebuild but in the hands of a decent 'specialist' they could do a compression and more importantly 'leak down' test to see if the Cam needs to be replaced/Valves need looking at...
Do you ever get down to any of the events at Goodwood?
Regards
Steve
Hi Steve,Glad that all went well with Mark and Brian, I thought that you would enjoy the experience!
More importantly the results...
As you know the only difference between our cars is that I have also fitted the ACT twin throttle Carbon plenum, Manifolds and complete exhaust, with Cats and did buy the Non-Cat sections and ran them for a while but the fumes started to get to me at certain speeds and in traffic, the noise was awesome though, too 'awesome' for some of the Track Days I wanted to do though, so Cat sections back in!
They managed to get 268 BHP from mine...
I have had a new Cam and Top End rebuild but in the hands of a decent 'specialist' they could do a compression and more importantly 'leak down' test to see if the Cam needs to be replaced/Valves need looking at...
Do you ever get down to any of the events at Goodwood?
Regards
Steve
Those ACT manifolds are awesome pieces of kit. The sound with the cats out is epic
At least with that system you can choose how 'awesome ' you want the sound to be relatively easily by swapping the cats in and out. Mark was happy with the health of my engine and said in his it appeared to be in 'rude health'. I would like the 885 cam you have in yours but I am not sure if I can justify swapping it when the cam in mine appears to be fine. The ACT twin throttle plenum does sound tempting however.
I do very occasionally get down to Goodwood. I like the breakfast meets but it means a horrifically early start. Are you doing Thunder in the Tunnels / Brooklands, Griff Growl or Back Home this year?
Matthew
MPoxon said:
EGB said:
Good posts these. Steve what new cam did you fit. Any idea where Matthew is getting the extra 30bhp from if the systems are near the same.
Mark tells me that the dyno at Mech repairs reads about 21% under what most others do so based on the figure of 229BHP on the first run that equates to 277BHP which ties in with exactly what mine made on the North London Dyno at Griff Growl last year so this theory stands to reason.Mine made a final figure of 247BHP which + the 21% works out at 298.87BHP.
Steve's made a 268BHP which + the 21% works out at 324.28BHP
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