Chimaera variation How to spot the difference 500, 450, 400.
Discussion
Hi folks,
I am currently in the negotiating phase of buying a 98 500. Very well maintained, one owner, long history file etc, very nice car.
How do I differentiate between the different models apart from the 500 badge, purple valve covers and the owners original book?
Is there an engine number reference to the size?
I am quite sure this is a 500 but it occured to me that if an owner destroyed an engine then it would not be hard to paint the covers of a 400 or 450.
Cheers,
Pratto
I am currently in the negotiating phase of buying a 98 500. Very well maintained, one owner, long history file etc, very nice car.
How do I differentiate between the different models apart from the 500 badge, purple valve covers and the owners original book?
Is there an engine number reference to the size?
I am quite sure this is a 500 but it occured to me that if an owner destroyed an engine then it would not be hard to paint the covers of a 400 or 450.
Cheers,
Pratto
I don't think there is any difference externally, aside from the things you've listed.
As far as I know, you *could* bolt a 'new' 400 engine under the purple valve covers and 500 plenum badge, and I doubt anyone could tell the difference.
The stroke will be different of course.
If you can measure, with fair accuracy, the distance between TDC and BDC then it will tell you if it's a 500 crank.
The 500 has a 90.0 mm stroke, being 8 mm longer than the '4.5'/4.6.
Maybe someone has a better idea...
ETA
Asking to pull a spark plug to measure the stroke is likely to give far less offence than a request for a 'tear down' or wanting to pour some liquid into the bore
As far as I know, you *could* bolt a 'new' 400 engine under the purple valve covers and 500 plenum badge, and I doubt anyone could tell the difference.
The stroke will be different of course.
If you can measure, with fair accuracy, the distance between TDC and BDC then it will tell you if it's a 500 crank.
The 500 has a 90.0 mm stroke, being 8 mm longer than the '4.5'/4.6.
Maybe someone has a better idea...
ETA
Asking to pull a spark plug to measure the stroke is likely to give far less offence than a request for a 'tear down' or wanting to pour some liquid into the bore
Edited by Goaty Bill on Sunday 21st April 06:48
spend said:
TVR engine numbers & chassis numbers tell you what the engine size is.
Check them against the handbook & it will be a 500.
This probably the only guarenteed way of knowing whether its a true 500 or not, without the car not having a whole engine replacement sometime its life of course. Check them against the handbook & it will be a 500.
fausTVR said:
Wheels as you no doubt know are different on un modified cars, 500 = 5 spoke 'estorils', 400 = 7 spoke 'imolas'.
Not quite 
My 500 came factory fresh with imolas, and a couple of others have mentioned that theirs did too.
Rare, but it happened.
chris1972 said:
Drive a few different models at a good dealer. It should give you an idea whether it is a 500.
I would agree, assuming all were 'stockers'.But it doesn't allow fully for 'healthy 400 vs a tired 500' scenario.
I would take spend's advice in the first instance, and personally, if I were about to part with the 'extra' 2-5k, I would also take my earlier advice with it (assuming the owner will allow it)
Is the number on the ecu the same for the 400 as the 500. if they differ then check that as its easier than removing plugs etc. If its a one owner car and he has looked after, it then why would he fit a smaller engine?. If it was a dog then I might be suspicious
Good luck and I hope it is a 500
Good luck and I hope it is a 500
chris1972 said:
Goaty Bill said:
But it doesn't allow fully for 'healthy 400 vs a tired 500' scenario.
It's not an argument I hold with generally, there should be a world of difference, but I only drove stock 400's on test drives; maybe a strong modified 400 really does feel as strong...
A lot of TVR buying and selling happens far, far away from these forums, and in the 'real' world most buyers are paying on condition/mileage, year, and engine size. The "strong 400 vs tired 500" isn't even an argument. Just look at dealer pricing.
Anyway, the OP is in Australia, so he probably has few enough choices to start with.
I got the strong impression that there is no question of the car having been a 500 from the factory, the only concern being that the engine might have been changed out.
That is only likely in the event of catastrophic failure of the original I should think.
Thanks folks,
I am quite sure this seller is a man of high integrity, but I will check all the same.
It was more a general question as there is lot of Australian classic cars re-badged into a better model. Lots of stories of people buying a special car only to find it to be anything but special.
Back to TVR, I am really looking forward to the Chimaera. Always like the TVR's and as one of the posts said there are very few in Oz.
Cheers and thanks again,
Pratto
I am quite sure this seller is a man of high integrity, but I will check all the same.
It was more a general question as there is lot of Australian classic cars re-badged into a better model. Lots of stories of people buying a special car only to find it to be anything but special.
Back to TVR, I am really looking forward to the Chimaera. Always like the TVR's and as one of the posts said there are very few in Oz.
Cheers and thanks again,
Pratto
Goaty Bill said:
Yeah, sorry Chris.
It's not an argument I hold with generally, there should be a world of difference, but I only drove stock 400's on test drives; maybe a strong modified 400 really does feel as strong...
A lot of TVR buying and selling happens far, far away from these forums, and in the 'real' world most buyers are paying on condition/mileage, year, and engine size. The "strong 400 vs tired 500" isn't even an argument. Just look at dealer pricing.
Anyway, the OP is in Australia, so he probably has few enough choices to start with.
I got the strong impression that there is no question of the car having been a 500 from the factory, the only concern being that the engine might have been changed out.
That is only likely in the event of catastrophic failure of the original I should think.
It's not an argument I hold with generally, there should be a world of difference, but I only drove stock 400's on test drives; maybe a strong modified 400 really does feel as strong...
A lot of TVR buying and selling happens far, far away from these forums, and in the 'real' world most buyers are paying on condition/mileage, year, and engine size. The "strong 400 vs tired 500" isn't even an argument. Just look at dealer pricing.
Anyway, the OP is in Australia, so he probably has few enough choices to start with.
I got the strong impression that there is no question of the car having been a 500 from the factory, the only concern being that the engine might have been changed out.
That is only likely in the event of catastrophic failure of the original I should think.
Pratto said:
Hi folks,
I am currently in the negotiating phase of buying a 98 500. Very well maintained, one owner, long history file etc, very nice car.
How do I differentiate between the different models apart from the 500 badge, purple valve covers and the owners original book?
Is there an engine number reference to the size?
I am quite sure this is a 500 but it occured to me that if an owner destroyed an engine then it would not be hard to paint the covers of a 400 or 450.
Cheers,
Pratto
There are a couple of chims in and around Melbourne, try emailing ariddell. When I was home in January there were two 500s for sale have you driven both? The Australian forum page may be quiet helpfull, and apart from a few chims there are a small collection of others tivs in Victoria. I am currently in the negotiating phase of buying a 98 500. Very well maintained, one owner, long history file etc, very nice car.
How do I differentiate between the different models apart from the 500 badge, purple valve covers and the owners original book?
Is there an engine number reference to the size?
I am quite sure this is a 500 but it occured to me that if an owner destroyed an engine then it would not be hard to paint the covers of a 400 or 450.
Cheers,
Pratto
ChimpOnGas said:
If you want to know if its really a 5.0 litre, pull the dipstick out.
When you put it back in a 5.0 litr it will feel nasty like its fouling something.
On a 4.0 or 4.5 it slides in nicely.
Never having 'dipped my stick' as it were, with a 4.5 or a 4.0; I'll leave that to Dave here.When you put it back in a 5.0 litr it will feel nasty like its fouling something.
On a 4.0 or 4.5 it slides in nicely.
I can however confirm that my stick has always been a bit stiff in my 5.0.
Dipstick differences sound fishy codswallop to me. I can't recall any differences in the builds that would make the 500 dipstick any different to the others?
The blocks are the same (even small/large journal don't change in this respect AFIK), dipsticks are the same, the cranks certainly don't foul the dipsticks. The only things I can think of that affects the dipstick is how the retaining clamp has been clipped to rocker cover & the glueing into the block of the dipstick tube. There are some minor differences in the exhaust header flanges which do affect how much the upper tube is bent to fit, but they vary with batches made so era dependent rather than engine size. Biggest difference I can think of is only in the early performance cars (430 & 500) that had proper TVR cast rocker covers, which have the rocker cover clip a little higher/wider which affects the angle you can install the tube, but they are fairly rare.
The blocks are the same (even small/large journal don't change in this respect AFIK), dipsticks are the same, the cranks certainly don't foul the dipsticks. The only things I can think of that affects the dipstick is how the retaining clamp has been clipped to rocker cover & the glueing into the block of the dipstick tube. There are some minor differences in the exhaust header flanges which do affect how much the upper tube is bent to fit, but they vary with batches made so era dependent rather than engine size. Biggest difference I can think of is only in the early performance cars (430 & 500) that had proper TVR cast rocker covers, which have the rocker cover clip a little higher/wider which affects the angle you can install the tube, but they are fairly rare.
fausTVR said:
Wheels as you no doubt know are different on un modified cars, 500 = 5 spoke 'estorils', 400 = 7 spoke 'imolas'.
mine was a 400 hc and wore a set of estorils, after the accident it was put onto Imolas, now back on Estorils. it is now a 4.7 however. having owned a few I would have to say the drive is the most obvious way of telling.
Edited by james280779 on Friday 26th April 00:56
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