Millers 10W-50 Nano Oil - Good for our cars?

Millers 10W-50 Nano Oil - Good for our cars?

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Discussion

Gibbo205

Original Poster:

3,527 posts

206 months

Sunday 21st April 2013
quotequote all
Hi there

Noticed Hartech use/recommend Millers 10W-50 Nano Oil for 996/997's, can anyone explain as to why this is?

Should I change to this oil over the Mobil One 0W-40 that Porsche recommend, any dis-advantages like power/fuel economy etc?

Mja300

120 posts

135 months

Sunday 21st April 2013
quotequote all
Hi mate.
I've got a Hartech rebuilt cayman s, which is currently running millers xfs. As I understand it though, this is just for the 'running in' period (2000 miles).
Not sure millers is a standard oil that they usually recommend/use.

Gibbo205

Original Poster:

3,527 posts

206 months

Sunday 21st April 2013
quotequote all
Mja300 said:
Hi mate.
I've got a Hartech rebuilt cayman s, which is currently running millers xfs. As I understand it though, this is just for the 'running in' period (2000 miles).
Not sure millers is a standard oil that they usually recommend/use.
Why did it need a rebuild m8, what happened, how much did it cost please?

This is the oil Hartech seem to use and recommend:-
http://www.millersoils.co.uk/automotive/tds-automo...

Be good if Baz or anyone in know how can comment on the positives / negatives of using this over the mobil one 0W-40 Porsche recommend?

Edited by Gibbo205 on Sunday 21st April 19:27

Mja300

120 posts

135 months

Sunday 21st April 2013
quotequote all
I bought it as a Hartech sales car in January of this year. It had a full rebuild including 6 cylinder liners after scoring 3 of its bores with a previous owner. Not sure of the total cost as the work had already been carried out as I purchased the car. Top guys though and I am lucky to live so close and have such a great porsche independent.

Rockster

1,508 posts

159 months

Sunday 21st April 2013
quotequote all
Gibbo205 said:
Hi there

Noticed Hartech use/recommend Millers 10W-50 Nano Oil for 996/997's, can anyone explain as to why this is?

Should I change to this oil over the Mobil One 0W-40 that Porsche recommend, any dis-advantages like power/fuel economy etc?
Sure there are disadvantages.

Ignoring that it is the wrong oil for the engine (no Porsche approved oil is a 10w-xx oil) the higher W number means the oil flows less readily during a cold start. The risk? Bore scoring! If the bearings don't gall up first. Or the zero-lash lifters suffer from lack of oil flow when the engine fires up. Or the VarioCam Plus hardware suffers from improper lubrication or the viscosity differences result in added wear and tear to the VarioCam hardware. Or this oil's splash/sling characteristics are different from that of approved oils and the splash lubed camshaft lobes and lifter bucket faces receive insufficient oil at start up or at other times.

The oil is very likely to result in a drop (it may be too small to notice) in fuel economy. A heaver oil results in more friction and this takes power to overcome.

Also, more friction means more heat. There is the possibility the thicker/heavier oil could suffer from high temp/high pressure break down as it overheats in the tiny clearances that are the rod/main bearings.

Gibbo205

Original Poster:

3,527 posts

206 months

Sunday 21st April 2013
quotequote all
Rockster said:
Sure there are disadvantages.

Ignoring that it is the wrong oil for the engine (no Porsche approved oil is a 10w-xx oil) the higher W number means the oil flows less readily during a cold start. The risk? Bore scoring! If the bearings don't gall up first. Or the zero-lash lifters suffer from lack of oil flow when the engine fires up. Or the VarioCam Plus hardware suffers from improper lubrication or the viscosity differences result in added wear and tear to the VarioCam hardware. Or this oil's splash/sling characteristics are different from that of approved oils and the splash lubed camshaft lobes and lifter bucket faces receive insufficient oil at start up or at other times.

The oil is very likely to result in a drop (it may be too small to notice) in fuel economy. A heaver oil results in more friction and this takes power to overcome.

Also, more friction means more heat. There is the possibility the thicker/heavier oil could suffer from high temp/high pressure break down as it overheats in the tiny clearances that are the rod/main bearings.
Based on that amazed Hartech recommend this oil to prevent bore scoring???

ScienceTeacher

408 posts

184 months

Sunday 21st April 2013
quotequote all
Doh! If only Baz had known! 40 years buidling engines and an international reputation as the foremost authority on M96/7 cars and a couple of years working with Millers to determine what works best and he gets it all wrong. I know which oil my 996 will be imbibing, and it's not Mobil 1.

Gibbo205

Original Poster:

3,527 posts

206 months

Sunday 21st April 2013
quotequote all
ScienceTeacher said:
Doh! If only Baz had known! 40 years buidling engines and an international reputation as the foremost authority on M96/7 cars and a couple of years working with Millers to determine what works best and he gets it all wrong. I know which oil my 996 will be imbibing, and it's not Mobil 1.
Are you using this Millers oil m8 I've linked too?

NJH

3,021 posts

208 months

Sunday 21st April 2013
quotequote all
I would have thought the retained oil film on the components is more important at start up. Its the reason why many engine builders use assembly grease or coat the components in oil as per the motors rebuild guidance.

Its interesting to understand how oil viscosity is measured because this makes it clear what we are talking about:
http://www.machinerylubrication.com/Read/411

Note the bullet points under "A significant reduction in oil viscosity can result in:". So there you have it, the thinner oil has the advantages highlighted by a previous poster but it may also have some very significant disadvantages.

Stefandk

27 posts

134 months

Sunday 21st April 2013
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I use Millers nano 5-40...;-)

Pugley

687 posts

191 months

Sunday 21st April 2013
quotequote all
I believe you will find that the experts think bore scoring occurs at high temperatures when the oil film breaks down and the piston comes into contact with the cylinder.

The damage is a result excessive heat and lubrication failure.

Porsche do not have a particularly good track record of dealing with this inherent design fault so a wise person might like to take advice from specialists who develop/race/repair/improve these engines for a living.

5TUE

740 posts

171 months

Sunday 21st April 2013
quotequote all
I could be wrong but the Mobil tie up is simply business between one large company and another, and I believe that the Porsche Cup cars are run on Millers.

It isn't just Mobil that have Porsche approval but a number of the oil manufacturers Millers being one of them and simply that Mobil is the oil that the OPCs are told to put in by Porsche hence the business connection.

I have just had my oil changed and in went the Millers!

ScienceTeacher

408 posts

184 months

Sunday 21st April 2013
quotequote all
I did not ask what Hartech changed it with last week. I should have done so and will get a bottle of what they recommend.

thegoose

8,075 posts

209 months

Sunday 21st April 2013
quotequote all
The OPCs don't all use Mobil at all, they are free to make their own choice of any oil that Porsche approve so will use what works best for them.

anonymous-user

53 months

Monday 22nd April 2013
quotequote all
Gibbo205 said:
Rockster said:
Sure there are disadvantages.

Ignoring that it is the wrong oil for the engine (no Porsche approved oil is a 10w-xx oil) the higher W number means the oil flows less readily during a cold start. The risk? Bore scoring! If the bearings don't gall up first. Or the zero-lash lifters suffer from lack of oil flow when the engine fires up. Or the VarioCam Plus hardware suffers from improper lubrication or the viscosity differences result in added wear and tear to the VarioCam hardware. Or this oil's splash/sling characteristics are different from that of approved oils and the splash lubed camshaft lobes and lifter bucket faces receive insufficient oil at start up or at other times.

The oil is very likely to result in a drop (it may be too small to notice) in fuel economy. A heaver oil results in more friction and this takes power to overcome.

Also, more friction means more heat. There is the possibility the thicker/heavier oil could suffer from high temp/high pressure break down as it overheats in the tiny clearances that are the rod/main bearings.
ty

Based on that amazed Hartech recommend this oil to prevent bore scoring???
Not really. Porsche have approved a huge range of different oils, many 5/40 or 5/50. The change in cold viscosity from 5 to 10 would have less effect than the viscosity change for a 0 grade, compared during summer to winter. I would take Hartech's practical experience at least on a par with Porsche's system of approval, which is likely more akin to the N rated tyre system than any objective, practical assessment.

If Rocksters fears were realistic, engines would be failing left right and centre in the winter months.

I have always found it interesting that the main oil recommended these days is Mobil 1, when in independent tests it is often found wanting in comparison with others. Why would that be?

tr7v8

7,185 posts

227 months

Monday 22nd April 2013
quotequote all
Rockster said:
Gibbo205 said:
Hi there

Noticed Hartech use/recommend Millers 10W-50 Nano Oil for 996/997's, can anyone explain as to why this is?

Should I change to this oil over the Mobil One 0W-40 that Porsche recommend, any dis-advantages like power/fuel economy etc?
Sure there are disadvantages.

Ignoring that it is the wrong oil for the engine (no Porsche approved oil is a 10w-xx oil) the higher W number means the oil flows less readily during a cold start.
The BOLD is incorrect, well for my 2000 Boxster clearly. My manual says:-
Engine Oils Approved by Porsche
All oils on the Porsche Approved Oils list
Ois of viscosity 0W-40, 5W-40. 10W-40 and Higher if they comply with ACEA A3 spec
Oils of Viscosity 0W-30, 5W-30 & 10W-30 if the are included in the Porsche Approval list.

So basically any of the higher rated oils above are OK, hence mine runs on a A3 oil that is SL spec in fact 10W-40.
Tests in the US have shown that one of the reasons for IMS failure MAY be too thin an oil, hence recommendations to run higher grades.



General Bilko

266 posts

185 months

Monday 22nd April 2013
quotequote all
I now use this oil in my 996 C4, which has done 79k. I'm very happy with it, no problems on start up (in fact it sounds better starting now than when I had Mobil 1) and good oil pressure when hot.

Edited by General Bilko on Monday 22 April 08:17

Gibbo205

Original Poster:

3,527 posts

206 months

Monday 22nd April 2013
quotequote all
OK think I shall go to Millers come next change, I think Hartech know better than Porsche what is best for these engines, shall double confirm with Baz which one I need to get and go with that. smile

AlvinSultana

858 posts

148 months

Monday 22nd April 2013
quotequote all
My 70k 993 was main dealer serviced from new and always ran the thinner synthetic oils recommended by the OPC and the manufacturer.

However after being very disappointed after another poor main dealer experience I took the car to Hartech for its major service.

Hartech used the thicker semi synthetic Millers. The engine sounded smoother, especially from cold. I am more than happy with the oil, and more than happy with Hartech's experience and qualification in the field.

Indies always recommend using thicker non or semi synthetic oils. Because they do offer more protection for engines.

Jevvy

232 posts

168 months

Monday 22nd April 2013
quotequote all
showed good gains on an early 911:

http://www.millersoils.co.uk/news/2012/220212-Pors...

"The first test, running with CFS 10w60 showed an normalised power output (DIN 70020) of 268 bhp.
After changing the oil for the new CFS 10w60 NT and running the engine fully up to operating temperature the second power test showed a normalised power output (DIN 70020) of 283 bhp
Peak torque of 307 Nm showed an increase over 295 Nm as measured at 5340 RPM."



Edited by Jevvy on Monday 22 April 11:33