RE: Ringside Seat: record breakers

RE: Ringside Seat: record breakers

Monday 13th May 2013

Ringside Seat: record breakers

Dale grasps the thorny issue of 'ring records by getting involved with one



Setting a record at the Nurburgring can be a little more fluid than you might think. Shortly after each record makes the news, I'm often asked questions, such as, "How do they decide if it's a legitimate record?"

The answer to this question is another question.

"Who are 'they'?"

If only Norris McWhirter was still around...
If only Norris McWhirter was still around...
They are us. You are them. You, me and the websites, forums and magazines we all read, contribute towards and generally live out through our petrol-burning hobby. We legitimise, we also criticise. Or, in internet lingo, we flame. For example, I remember when Ferrari set a new record for the 599XX. It wasn't a street car, it was a race car.

Except the laptime has been hit by certain rear-engined Beetle drivers many times before. So, really it was more like a record for Italian cars built by Ferrari that are not road-legal but also not raced. I pretty much blogged exactly that, and moved on.

Who remembers the GT-R debacle? Porsche calling foul with much off-the-record-but-on-it muttering that the GT-R's claimed laptime was impossible. Nissan then making a press release that offered driver training to the Porsche test team... Ba-zinger.

There's also a certain amount of trust that the manufacturers involved are not cheating in any way. Sometimes that trust is misplaced, that's all I can say, but most times not. Most engineers I deal with would sooner commit Seppuku than lie about the capabilities of the products they often spend years on developing. They're so personally invested in it that they wouldn't even consider cheating.

A record is a record and deserves celebration!
A record is a record and deserves celebration!
Of course, the pessimists would also point out that it's this obsession that sometimes drives the same men and women to up the boost, order the 'special' tyres and swap the brake pads and discs while nobody's looking. Then they would, theoretically, get everybody involved to sign a Non Disclosure Agreement with a €250,000 penalty for opening your mouth. For example.

No such dramas with the lap record my boss set last week though. A couple of years ago Subaru lashed up a lovely little test-mule based on a Spec C (lightweight rally car base) Impreza with the latest 320hp motor. It got all the tastiest parts from the STI workshop behind Sabine's house in the village. It wasn't even a production car, but it was road-legal (on temporary plates) and it was definitely the fastest production-based (let's call it) Impreza. So it was a natural target for Revolution and their own two-door Project Nurburgring STi.

Unlike Subaru Technica International, Newcastle-based tuners Revolution couldn't rely on booking the Nordschleife exclusively. Nor could they pull strings for Tomi Makinen to come over. In the end, and having reviewed video of Tomi over-revving and kerbing the hell out of the original 7min55sec Subaru car, I think they made the right decision to hire my employer at Rent4Ring, Fredy Lienhard, for the lap.

On the day Fredy opted for the medium-boost setting, good for about 400hp. Interestingly the '320hp' factory car was only a few km/h slower than the Cosworth-fettled Revolution car. I think that says a lot about how stock that particular car was.

And at 7min53sec the 400hp Project car was two seconds quicker than the factory car, so that's a record. In the absence of any official Nurburgring laptime arbitration, all we can say is that it's a laptime that's been written down, talked about, discussed all over the world.

Oh, and it's also brilliant to watch. So grab a cuppa, sit back and listen to that Cosworth-stroked boxer bellow...

 

 

Author
Discussion

mikebradford

Original Poster:

2,523 posts

146 months

Friday 10th May 2013
quotequote all
Impressive

EDLT

15,421 posts

207 months

Friday 10th May 2013
quotequote all
As fast as your time was, I think Makinen was pushing his car a little harder eek

Brother D

3,727 posts

177 months

Friday 10th May 2013
quotequote all
Jeeez - Is that the camera, or is the bonnet actually deflecting at high speed?

405dogvan

5,328 posts

266 months

Friday 10th May 2013
quotequote all
Brother D said:
Jeeez - Is that the camera, or is the bonnet actually deflecting at high speed?
Revolution Tuning are (or were?) on the Quayside in Gateshead I think - if they're like most of the dealers in that area, they sold the bonnet for cash and replaced it with a cardboard one

"for weight saving" wink

SprintSpeciale

432 posts

146 months

Friday 10th May 2013
quotequote all
Wow, he was pulling close to 1.4g lateral on non-banked sections!

rb5er

11,657 posts

173 months

Friday 10th May 2013
quotequote all
They should have made more 3 door imprezas after the P1. Just awesome.

P4ROT

1,219 posts

194 months

Friday 10th May 2013
quotequote all
Didn't they test this in EVO mag recently? Looks awesome

Layacable

815 posts

209 months

Friday 10th May 2013
quotequote all
He looked sloppy through a couple of corners, Looks to me as though he could have gone quicker.

I give it a 5 out of 5 on the steel testicle chart though!

RacerMike

4,209 posts

212 months

Friday 10th May 2013
quotequote all
Whilst I don't want to take anything away from Freddy's effort and lap time, I don't really understand the 'conspiracy' like tone of so many of your articles. Yes, we all know that most manufacturers tweak and tune their cars to get the time, but I'm not really sure how this is different from any 'Ring record? The Revolution Impreza is absolutely not, in any way, a standard car! Even if the 'production tyres' used in Makinnen's record attempt were somewhat one off, the ones on the Revolution car are out and out track day tyres. And whilst in the 'official' video from Subaru may show the 'standard' Impreza only a few kph up the valley off that of the car Freddy was driving, there's absolutely no hiding the fact Makinnen is significantly more committed through most of the corners. The last corner of his lap, where he hurls it across the grass is testament to this, and a good number of the fast corners, he takes 10-15kph faster than Freddy.

In conclusion, I think Freddy's lap is still clearly quick, however, it's a 7:40 odd in a car that's probably capable of a 7:30 or a 7:20. The STI lap was a 7:40 in a car capable of a 7:50...still way, way faster than the actual road car, but also, not some kind of conspiracy!

There are many, many reasons for industry using the 'Ring for testing. It's not just about lap times, but also about durability, tyre testing, temperature testing, stability control tuning and dynamics tuning. Of course there are plenty out there that like to quote the big headline lap time that may or may not be massaged, but who really cares? As long as Mr Norris McWerter is absent, it's anyone's game. To take it to it's extreme, why don't revolution turn up with a space framed silhouette Impreza with cut slicks, 600bhp and ground effect. Sure it'll beat that 'fake' time set by dastardly Radical in their 'Road Legal' SR8 that they 'drove' from the UK, but how is it any more valid?! You tell me...

Porkie

2,378 posts

242 months

Friday 10th May 2013
quotequote all
Well done Fredy!

Just watch was the Makkinen lap.... Holy st! I thought I was hard on cars.. He is brutal! I know he was an evo man at heart... But didnt realise he hated Subarus that much! He tries to kill the poor thing...

I now feel better about my own lack of mechanical sympathy smile

Chunkychucky

5,967 posts

170 months

Friday 10th May 2013
quotequote all
Some of the stuff Makinen does to that car, it's painful to watch. Didn't realise Subaru's boxer 4s in standard tune revved to 9k rpm...

TEKNOPUG

18,971 posts

206 months

Friday 10th May 2013
quotequote all
Reasonably rapid yes

RSgeoff

258 posts

231 months

Friday 10th May 2013
quotequote all
405dogvan said:
Revolution Tuning are (or were?) on the Quayside in Gateshead
They moved several years ago to Dunston in an excellent new "purpose built" facility.

P4ROT said:
Didn't they test this in EVO mag recently? Looks awesome
Yep.


Awesome car & well done guys !


Geoff

Frances The Mute

1,816 posts

242 months

Friday 10th May 2013
quotequote all
Lordy. He can certainly boogie - and that's with a bit of traffic and some slight hesitation.

Some of the speed carried in some sections was very impressive indeed. Clearly a very capable car and driver.


Arun_D

2,302 posts

196 months

Friday 10th May 2013
quotequote all
Frances The Mute said:
Lordy. He can certainly boogie - and that's with a bit of traffic and some slight hesitation.

Some of the speed carried in some sections was very impressive indeed. Clearly a very capable car and driver.
Extra kudos if he set the record in those trainers he's wearing in the photo!

m555

371 posts

185 months

Friday 10th May 2013
quotequote all
Dale really hates Imprezas calling them "understeery" (which describes just about every road car at some stage of driving), but when it brings in cash or sponsors he goes in full lickar$€ mode.

(we met,informally, with that comment from D.Lomas)

GC8

19,910 posts

191 months

Friday 10th May 2013
quotequote all
How things change. Even five years ago Id have known everything about this long before it appeared on PH. Now it comes as a complete surprise to me - I havent seen a two door car since the GC8 disappeared in 2001...

RINGMEISTER

154 posts

182 months

Friday 10th May 2013
quotequote all
I think you guys are forgetting Makinen was World champion for 4 consecutive years running, joint second with Kankkunen of all time (we all know who holds the crown) a phenomenal achievement and campaigned when rallying was competitive and a joy to watch so maybe his 4 carry more weight than Sebs 9? (Don't just judge him on that 9k mis-shift)

I'm sure Freddy is a good driver but put Tommi behind the wheel of that thing, Im sure he won't opt for the 400bhp low boost setting for starters!

V8Dom

3,546 posts

203 months

Friday 10th May 2013
quotequote all
looking good...god does that bonnet flex in the wind...super light!!!!!!!!!!!

RumbleOfThunder

3,560 posts

204 months

Saturday 11th May 2013
quotequote all
I think next time before slagging off Tommi's driving, your pal should do a little better than 2 seconds in a massively more capable car.