Abortion - time for a new debate?
Discussion
Sorry in advance - this is a gritty topic and not particularly pleasant.
A piece in this morning's headline referred to the guilty verdict passed on Kermit Gosnell, a doctor operating an abortion clinic in Philadelphia. The facts of that case are staggering, and repulsive - read more here (be warned - it is not pleasant) http://www.steynonline.com/3710/big-government-bac...
Whilst this is an appalling case, and not one mirrored here in the UK, did you know just how many abortions are performed in the UK each year?
189,000 on UK residents. In one year. More stats here;https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0AonYZs4MzlZbdGswZVJ6OFp1QWsyOTZBbUxSNVFLSUE&hl=en_US#gid=0
Since it became legal in 1968 we've terminated 6.4 million British foetus'!
It makes me wonder why this subject does not get debated more widely...that's an average of more than 142,000 per year.
Sad, IMHO, but what do you think?
A piece in this morning's headline referred to the guilty verdict passed on Kermit Gosnell, a doctor operating an abortion clinic in Philadelphia. The facts of that case are staggering, and repulsive - read more here (be warned - it is not pleasant) http://www.steynonline.com/3710/big-government-bac...
Whilst this is an appalling case, and not one mirrored here in the UK, did you know just how many abortions are performed in the UK each year?
189,000 on UK residents. In one year. More stats here;https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0AonYZs4MzlZbdGswZVJ6OFp1QWsyOTZBbUxSNVFLSUE&hl=en_US#gid=0
Since it became legal in 1968 we've terminated 6.4 million British foetus'!
It makes me wonder why this subject does not get debated more widely...that's an average of more than 142,000 per year.
Sad, IMHO, but what do you think?
The Don of Croy said:
Sorry in advance - this is a gritty topic and not particularly pleasant.
A piece in this morning's headline referred to the guilty verdict passed on Kermit Gosnell, a doctor operating an abortion clinic in Philadelphia. The facts of that case are staggering, and repulsive - read more here (be warned - it is not pleasant) http://www.steynonline.com/3710/big-government-bac...
Whilst this is an appalling case, and not one mirrored here in the UK, did you know just how many abortions are performed in the UK each year?
189,000 on UK residents. In one year. More stats here;https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0AonYZs4MzlZbdGswZVJ6OFp1QWsyOTZBbUxSNVFLSUE&hl=en_US#gid=0
Since it became legal in 1968 we've terminated 6.4 million British foetus'!
It makes me wonder why this subject does not get debated more widely...that's an average of more than 142,000 per year.
Sad, IMHO, but what do you think?
Babies can survive being born at 22 weeks yet the law still allows them to be terminated at that point. That isn't right.A piece in this morning's headline referred to the guilty verdict passed on Kermit Gosnell, a doctor operating an abortion clinic in Philadelphia. The facts of that case are staggering, and repulsive - read more here (be warned - it is not pleasant) http://www.steynonline.com/3710/big-government-bac...
Whilst this is an appalling case, and not one mirrored here in the UK, did you know just how many abortions are performed in the UK each year?
189,000 on UK residents. In one year. More stats here;https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0AonYZs4MzlZbdGswZVJ6OFp1QWsyOTZBbUxSNVFLSUE&hl=en_US#gid=0
Since it became legal in 1968 we've terminated 6.4 million British foetus'!
It makes me wonder why this subject does not get debated more widely...that's an average of more than 142,000 per year.
Sad, IMHO, but what do you think?
[*James Fulford argues that "Dr" Gosnell delivered live babies and killed them because he was too incompetent to perform a "partial-birth abortion" - because, in a ever more credential-obsessed America, ever more credentials have been corrupted by ethnocultural political considerations.]
Instead, Kermit Gosnell barked: "I don't have time for this!" He then ripped off her clothes, spanked her, wrestled her onto a dirty surgical stretcher, tied her flailing arms and legs down and pumped sedatives into her until she quit screaming and lost consciousness, she told the Daily News yesterday...
In 2001, Davida Johnson changed her mind about aborting her 6-month fetus after seeing Gosnell's dazed, bloodied patients in his recovery room, she said. But in the treatment room, Gosnell's staffers ignored her protests, smacked her, tied her arms down and sedated her into unconsciousness, she said. She awoke no longer pregnant.
Sounds more like story about political correctness and afirmative action to me. Authorities new about it but did nothing.
Instead, Kermit Gosnell barked: "I don't have time for this!" He then ripped off her clothes, spanked her, wrestled her onto a dirty surgical stretcher, tied her flailing arms and legs down and pumped sedatives into her until she quit screaming and lost consciousness, she told the Daily News yesterday...
In 2001, Davida Johnson changed her mind about aborting her 6-month fetus after seeing Gosnell's dazed, bloodied patients in his recovery room, she said. But in the treatment room, Gosnell's staffers ignored her protests, smacked her, tied her arms down and sedated her into unconsciousness, she said. She awoke no longer pregnant.
Sounds more like story about political correctness and afirmative action to me. Authorities new about it but did nothing.
Edited by Pesty on Tuesday 14th May 13:46
The Don of Croy said:
Sad, IMHO, but what do you think?
Sad? Maybe. But no more sad than 190,000 odd unwanted children being born.91% of abortions are before 13 weeks (and most of those are done using medication) and less than 1% are after 24 weeks, so while it would be preferable if people could use contraception better i don't believe we're doing too badly.
ETA: https://www.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploa...
t out of her, paying particular attention to the belly.The Don of Croy said:
,
189,000 on UK residents. In one year.
Since it became legal in 1968 we've terminated 6.4 million British foetus'!
It makes me wonder why this subject does not get debated more widely...that's an average of more than 142,000 per year.
Sad, IMHO, but what do you think?
Why do these figures shock you? That's roughly 2% of the population who are having abortions189,000 on UK residents. In one year.
Since it became legal in 1968 we've terminated 6.4 million British foetus'!
It makes me wonder why this subject does not get debated more widely...that's an average of more than 142,000 per year.
Sad, IMHO, but what do you think?
grumbledoak said:
It isn't the only alternative, no. But it is one of them. If we are going to discuss banning abortion we should at least drop any pretense that subsequently every foetus will be brought to term healthy and have a happy, loving childhood in Islington, and a stellar career.
Who is discussing banning abortion?How hard is this discussion...
If you kill something that otherwise would have lived and it's human - then it's murder
Now once you've excepted this (as there is no other answer, as if you didn't get involved it would have been born alive) then we can have a discussion.
So yes, abortion is murder simple
The question is:
Should murder be legal in some situations - and in which ones?
The modern world has unfortunately given mankind the impression that obvious things, things which are brutal and nasty, are no longer such.
If you kill something that otherwise would have lived and it's human - then it's murder
Now once you've excepted this (as there is no other answer, as if you didn't get involved it would have been born alive) then we can have a discussion.
So yes, abortion is murder simple
The question is:
Should murder be legal in some situations - and in which ones?
The modern world has unfortunately given mankind the impression that obvious things, things which are brutal and nasty, are no longer such.
dundarach said:
How hard is this discussion...
If you kill something that otherwise would have lived and it's human - then it's murder
Now once you've excepted this (as there is no other answer, as if you didn't get involved it would have been born alive) then we can have a discussion.
So yes, abortion is murder simple
The question is:
Should murder be legal in some situations - and in which ones?
The modern world has unfortunately given mankind the impression that obvious things, things which are brutal and nasty, are no longer such.
How can you murder something that hadn't been born yet?If you kill something that otherwise would have lived and it's human - then it's murder
Now once you've excepted this (as there is no other answer, as if you didn't get involved it would have been born alive) then we can have a discussion.
So yes, abortion is murder simple
The question is:
Should murder be legal in some situations - and in which ones?
The modern world has unfortunately given mankind the impression that obvious things, things which are brutal and nasty, are no longer such.
Murder - "The unlawful premeditated killing of one human being by another." https://www.google.co.uk/search?q=murder+definitio...
As soon as it's going - it's human...might be terribly disabled, but it's human. it might die it's self, mother could reject, could be any number of other things, however it's human.
The definition is very clear.......
Now should we terminate (murder) some of these foetuses for very sensible reasons - thankfully I've never been faced with this, we didn't even have the tests, however - yes probably.
But call it what it is!
As soon as it's going - it's human...might be terribly disabled, but it's human. it might die it's self, mother could reject, could be any number of other things, however it's human.
The definition is very clear.......
Now should we terminate (murder) some of these foetuses for very sensible reasons - thankfully I've never been faced with this, we didn't even have the tests, however - yes probably.
But call it what it is!
MarshPhantom said:
How can you murder something that hadn't been born yet?
See my definition - does it only become human once the fresh air hits it - no.It's obvious human from the start isn't it!
Why do people find it so hard to at least call it what it is - then discuss the truth.
You can call it a flaming orange - fact is, without the abortion a human would be born
sugerbear said:
The Don of Croy said:
Since it became legal in 1968 we've terminated 6.4 million British foetus'!
Because what the country really needs is 6.4 million extra people to educate, feed, house, find employment for etc etc. Countries need people, people need economic activity to grow (to prosper), and apparently we're happy 'losing' 142,000 every year (whilst importing 150k 'others' who may not share our cultural and ethnic norms).
I don't support the abolition of abortion. I do wonder about the numbers, though.
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