serious question
Discussion
An original document stands by itself as evidence, but must be original. If you intend to use it as evidence in court and then claim it was issued at the time, then that is indeed a fraudulent act and may well be seen as perverting the course of justice. Don't do it. The small claims court works on the 'balance of probabilities' as the burden of proof, so the plaintiff will need to demonstrate that the invoice was issued. A can of worms if you ask me.
However, if you go ahead with it, I've heard that shower time can be quite eventful, just don't pick up the soap!
If its for VAT etc, then simply add it to your next VAT return if under £500. If its a considerable amount, then you'll have to do a VAT adjustment (called a 'voluntary disclosure'), so you'll need to contact HMRC and they will advise. If its a 'cash' transaction, then it may come back to bite you, especially if you take it though the small claims court and you need to prove that it was issued and accounted for on the date you say... if you catch my drift.
However, if you go ahead with it, I've heard that shower time can be quite eventful, just don't pick up the soap!
If its for VAT etc, then simply add it to your next VAT return if under £500. If its a considerable amount, then you'll have to do a VAT adjustment (called a 'voluntary disclosure'), so you'll need to contact HMRC and they will advise. If its a 'cash' transaction, then it may come back to bite you, especially if you take it though the small claims court and you need to prove that it was issued and accounted for on the date you say... if you catch my drift.
Edited by chris1972 on Thursday 23 May 11:51
Cant be done, since invoices should be issued in number order with a date (for a biggish trader like say a main tvr ex dealer), so it is easy to prove the document was not issued on the invoice date. Also HMRC will want to know why you are doing it as it could be to defraud them of VAT.
PascalBuyens said:
Is it legal in the UK to retro-date jobsheets or invoices you never charged to your client? And if that happens, isn't that enough reason for the customer to be proven right in court, if he has the proof of that retro dating happening?
Probably a little more info required.Are you the client?
phazed said:
PascalBuyens said:
Is it legal in the UK to retro-date jobsheets or invoices you never charged to your client? And if that happens, isn't that enough reason for the customer to be proven right in court, if he has the proof of that retro dating happening?
Probably a little more info required.Are you the client?
Amount in question is considerably above small claims territory.
Is there enough information here to be sure?
I can imagine a scenario where a supplier, for all innocent reasons, lost the job sheet for work he had carried out and therefore missed invoicing. What would be illegal about duplicating that job sheet and invoice, if the work had been done?
I can imagine a scenario where a supplier, for all innocent reasons, lost the job sheet for work he had carried out and therefore missed invoicing. What would be illegal about duplicating that job sheet and invoice, if the work had been done?
REALIST123 said:
Is there enough information here to be sure?
I can imagine a scenario where a supplier, for all innocent reasons, lost the job sheet for work he had carried out and therefore missed invoicing. What would be illegal about duplicating that job sheet and invoice, if the work had been done?
NO problem if the work had been done and is up to the specifications that were set out from day one.I can imagine a scenario where a supplier, for all innocent reasons, lost the job sheet for work he had carried out and therefore missed invoicing. What would be illegal about duplicating that job sheet and invoice, if the work had been done?
In my case, the outstanding jobsheets contain about half of the items that were on the original 2009 invoice, and paid for.
When I decided to pull the plug, seeing it is going nowhere other than being told over and over that "they are working on the exhaust", magically two "outstanding jobsheets" turned up, one containing half of the items charged for in the original invoice, and being charged for again (some items more than once even)
The other going from a reinforced gearbox (which they admit NOT having fitted) and the costs for transporting the car to/back from S&D in Blackpool + the hinged bonnet conversion to the same, dated July 2011, numbered jobsheet showing up on my solicitors' table containing a shedload more items (i.e. turbo setup) which was only discussed and confirmed by the company in a mail on 29th of November 2011 and agreed by me as their solicitors refer to "within two hours of said mail".
Amount involved in those two jobsheets... let me put it this way: I could easily buy a Sagaris for it. But to date still don't have any engine, and asking for my property (the car with it's original engine and gearbox) and my money back is apparently "not going to happen".
After more than six years you're not allowed to pull the plug on a project that's going nowhere then, or what?
PS: I will refrain commenting from now on, as anything more I will say, will probably end up leading again to "name and shaming"...
Edited by PascalBuyens on Thursday 23 May 16:15
So they've billed you for the same work at least twice and then sent you a "forgotten" invoice dated July 2011 for work that you didn't even discuss with them until November 2011?
On top of that they haven't even then done a lot of the work either.
Given the amount of money involved I'm not surprised you've got the hump with them.
On top of that they haven't even then done a lot of the work either.
Given the amount of money involved I'm not surprised you've got the hump with them.
I think I'd be calling that guy on the TV who does the car snatch backs for finance companies.
I lost a court case as I couldn't prove I'd sent an invoice - it was my word against theirs as that's 50:50 I lost.
Similarly my friend took a Co. to court and it seemed an open and shut case but as the Co. took witnesses (made up and anyone in the car trade would know they were lying) and my friend just took paperwork he lost as the Judge decided it was 3:1 placing equal weight on all the testimony.
I lost a court case as I couldn't prove I'd sent an invoice - it was my word against theirs as that's 50:50 I lost.
Similarly my friend took a Co. to court and it seemed an open and shut case but as the Co. took witnesses (made up and anyone in the car trade would know they were lying) and my friend just took paperwork he lost as the Judge decided it was 3:1 placing equal weight on all the testimony.
chris1972 said:
DJR 7 said:
I'm sure customs & excise may consider this to be fraudulent
D
They don't exist any more! D
What ever you name them its fraudulent ..... And the plod, coppers or just for you the Police may find it interesting.
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