V8 Vantage 4.3 Alternative Performance upgrade thread

[scotpak]

Hi Guys

Apologies for the delay but here is a quick update on my performance upgrade project for my 4.3 V8 vantage.

All parts are now constructed & delivered and are ready to be installed. The before and after dynos are also booked.
Installation will take place on Tuesday and hopefully I should have the car back together with the results on Friday.

As a reminder, I am having the following done:

> New Velocity stainless steel "sport" sound level exhaust (listen to this clip to hear the amazing sound: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y3M1cncpS-k)
> New Velocity Aston exhaust MANIFOLDS!!
> Filters
> velocity 200 cell CATS
> ECU re-map

>> you can find most of these products on the Aston section here: http://www.velocityap.com/default.asp

Here are some pics taken on Friday of the new manifolds:








Also to remind people who may not have seen my previous thread, this project is being done by Stuart Dickinson of Velocity AP in Conjunction
with Steve Kilcoyne of Topgear. Steve has been involved in the development/manufacture and sale of various performance exhausts since the 1980s,
whilst Stuart Dickinson through his company, "Velocity" has supplied and fitted "since 2007",literally hundreds of Aston exhaust systems and performance catalysts for both the Vantage and the DB9.

Important to re-emphasize that Stuart has been producing After market products specifically for the vantage and DB9 since 2007 and has hundreds of satisfied customers, some of whom have done 50,000 miles plus on their cars with those products. This should alleviate concerns of potential warning lights, product quality etc. He is also a sponsored forum member on 6 speed where many satisfied US customers are quick to recommend his products, and highlight positive experiences.

I also want to emphasise the fact that I work as a corporate bond analyst for a fund management company and have no direct association with Stuart or Steve.
I came across their companies while looking for a cost-competitive route for upgrading the performance of my vantage.


Anyway, will come back hopefully on Friday with the DYNOS!!! and hopefully a much more powerful, faster and better sounding car!!!!

[whoami]

Interesting thread.

Look forward to hearing how it goes.

[robgt]

I would be slightly worried at the quality of the welding where the header pipes attach to the manifold mounting bracket. I would be slightly worried at the potential of weld failure.

Have a look at the 11th page of the BR site - now there's a work of art for you!

Edited by robgt on Sunday 9th June 08:08

[scotpak]

Its all solid and made from a top grade of stainless steel. Also made by guys who have done this for decades.

Also, as i have said above, stuart has been producing exhaust/ cats for the vantage/db9 since 2007, whilst steve has been making header/ manifolds since the 80s, thus i would assume chances of failure are pretty remote.

[divetheworld]

robgt said:

I would be slightly worried at the quality of the welding where the header pipes attach to the manifold mounting bracket. I would be slightly worried at the potential of weld failure.

Have a look at the 11th page of the BR site - now there's a work of art for you!

There's nothing worrying about that TIG welding. Very consistent and adequate. It will do the job nicely.
The difference is attention to detail and finishing.
The pipes on the other thread you describe have been made and hand finished to within an inch of its life (very little compromise). Very nice for a top end consumer product.
Mostly unnecessary of course. But then so is everything about an Aston I suppose.
If I remember correctly, the point of the product was a more economical alternative to the BR setup. Skipping some of the aesthetics should accomplish that. Of course that will be quantified only when the price is eventually published.

Edited by divetheworld on Sunday 9th June 09:06

[snuffy]

scotpak said:

>> you can find most of these products on the Aston section here: http://www.velocityap.com/default.asp

I've just looked at their web site and the first thing that struck me was that it's all in dollars. So I then assumed all the parts for your mods were being shipped from the US. But no, looking at the "About Us" page they are Dorest - are they using the "Dorest Dollar" then ? Seriously, pricing in dollars does not do them any favours.

[scotpak]

In dollars as stuart of velocity has been focused on the US mkt for many years as an aston specialist.

He is now looking to expand sales here in conjunction with steve of topgear.

Im sure uk prices should be coming very very soon. If you are keen on checking prices now contact steve at topgear.

[mikey k]

robgt said:

I would be slightly worried at the quality of the welding where the header pipes attach to the manifold mounting bracket. I would be slightly worried at the potential of weld failure.

Have a look at the 11th page of the BR site - now there's a work of art for you!

Edited by robgt on Sunday 9th June 08:08

I wasn't going to comment but I'm suprised the tubes are tacked welded on the outside to the plate which is also tack welded to a second plate. This area takes a lot of the twisting of the changes in engine torque.

Interested to see who the dynos come out

[gibbon]

robgt said:

I would be slightly worried at the quality of the welding where the header pipes attach to the manifold mounting bracket. I would be slightly worried at the potential of weld failure.

Edited by robgt on Sunday 9th June 08:08

What makes you worried about the welds? May I politely ask what qualifies you to make such a statement?

Welds look good to me (I am no expert but have a masters in mechanical engineering and took a city and guilds course in MIG welding mans moons ago to weld up numerous automotive projects).

[gibbon]

mikey k said:

I wasn't going to comment but I'm suprised the tubes are tacked welded on the outside to the plate which is also tack welded to a second plate. This area takes a lot of the twisting of the changes in engine torque.

Interested to see who the dynos come out

Looks like they are tacked in place in the jig on the outside face to me then flipped over and seam welding on the inside face, as anyone who welds knows as long as the penetration is good then that will have fused the two pieces together seamlessly.

[krisdelta]

Looking forward to seeing the results!

[mikey k]

gibbon said:

Looks like they are tacked in place in the jig on the outside face to me then flipped over and seam welding on the inside face, as anyone who welds knows as long as the penetration is good then that will have fused the two pieces together seamlessly.

Yep saw the seam weld on the other side
I hope the work on the other side is strong enough to cope with the engine movement on torque changes
I had a Ti system that was nicely welded but not stiff enough in the right place and the material fractured next to the weld due to the continual flexing

[scotpak]

Im no expert but it is pretty solid on all sides. I have several additionals pics from every angle but didnt wanna bore people with 10 exhaust pics.

Unlike BR, these products dont have glowing reviews on pistonheads but these guys are experts in their field and have produced top notch products for aston and other prestige brands for several years (or decades in the case of steve), but of course how does one verify this?

Well you can google" Stuart dickinson+aston" and you will come across loads of reviews, analysis, field reports etc on 6 speed. You can also have a look at the "topgear.co.uk" website. Of course the best option is to simply give either of these guys a call and im sure you will be very impressed.

Im no mug, and would never hand over my car+ money if I wasnt completely sure I wasnt getting top notch products/ service and that the guys were experts in their field.

[divetheworld]

gibbon said:

Looks like they are tacked in place in the jig on the outside face to me then flipped over and seam welding on the inside face, as anyone who welds knows as long as the penetration is good then that will have fused the two pieces together seamlessly.

Did you also notice the manifold plate is not one piece? Its two plates tacked together. It would be easier to make a single monolithic plate than a multilayer. I'd be interested to know if the logic behind the construction is related to flex.

[scotpak]

snuffy said:

I've just looked at their web site and the first thing that struck me was that it's all in dollars. So I then assumed all the parts for your mods were being shipped from the US. But no, looking at the "About Us" page they are Dorest - are they using the "Dorest Dollar" then ? Seriously, pricing in dollars does not do them any favours.

I didnt realise before, but here are the UK prices for all the Aston products:

http://www.topgear.co.uk/search/exhausts/velocity/...

> manifolds not on price list yet, and I'm sure the guys will probably bring out some sort of package prices with discounts.

[gibbon]

divetheworld said:

Did you also notice the manifold plate is not one piece? Its two plates tacked together. It would be easier to make a single monolithic plate than a multilayer. I'd be interested to know if the logic behind the construction is related to flex.

I actually hadnt noticed that, and it does indeed seem an odd choice, I cant see how that system can flex, but can only think its been done in that manner to attempt to allow for some movement? I would also love to hear the story behind that decision, i cant imagine it is by accident.

[mikey k]

gibbon said:

divetheworld said:

Did you also notice the manifold plate is not one piece? Its two plates tacked together. It would be easier to make a single monolithic plate than a multilayer. I'd be interested to know if the logic behind the construction is related to flex.

I actually hadnt noticed that, and it does indeed seem an odd choice, I cant see how that system can flex, but can only think its been done in that manner to attempt to allow for some movement? I would also love to hear the story behind that decision, i cant imagine it is by accident.

I spotted it hence my question earlier

[scotpak]

mikey k said:

gibbon said:

divetheworld said:

Did you also notice the manifold plate is not one piece? Its two plates tacked together. It would be easier to make a single monolithic plate than a multilayer. I'd be interested to know if the logic behind the construction is related to flex.

I actually hadnt noticed that, and it does indeed seem an odd choice, I cant see how that system can flex, but can only think its been done in that manner to attempt to allow for some movement? I would also love to hear the story behind that decision, i cant imagine it is by accident.

I spotted it hence my question earlier

I checked with guys and this is what Christian their designer says:

It’s called a laminate flange, and yes, it’s made from 2 thin laser cut flanges welded together in a jig. Laminate flanges produce a stiffer and thinner flange, that is also less prone to heat distortion under welding. It is more costly to make, as obviously laser cut time is increased, and labour involved in assembling the laminate flange. but it’s of a superior construction. All of the welds are fully penetrated, and gas purged. the welds are actually stronger than the rest of the tubing. the welds on the head port side of the flange are again welded from the inside, firstly to reduce warping, and secondly to round off mating surfaces creating a smoother gas transit. the tube is then stitch welded to the outer flange to increase strength. the laminate flanges once bolted in place, the stress on stitch welds is reduced by the clamping effect of header studs.

Hope that helps!

[gibbon]

scotpak said:

I checked with guys and this is what Christian their designer says:

It’s called a laminate flange, and yes, it’s made from 2 thin laser cut flanges welded together in a jig. Laminate flanges produce a stiffer and thinner flange, that is also less prone to heat distortion under welding. It is more costly to make, as obviously laser cut time is increased, and labour involved in assembling the laminate flange. but it’s of a superior construction. All of the welds are fully penetrated, and gas purged. the welds are actually stronger than the rest of the tubing. the welds on the head port side of the flange are again welded from the inside, firstly to reduce warping, and secondly to round off mating surfaces creating a smoother gas transit. the tube is then stitch welded to the outer flange to increase strength. the laminate flanges once bolted in place, the stress on stitch welds is reduced by the clamping effect of header studs.

Hope that helps!

That makes sense to me, and i can see why it will make a stiffer structure, almost I beam like.

Thanks for the update.

[Cockernee]

While I am sure that they are structurally OK (I am not experienced enough to comment), I would not fit them looking like that to my Aston . I guess I sound like a snob, but I am sure many on here will vouch for the fact that I am not . I would hope that they are finished a little more in keeping with the car they are going to be fitted to, so plenty of stone chips and bubbling paint

That said, if they are built down to a price and give the performance gains (or close to) those expected for a lesser price, then a choice has been given to everyone here and that is a good thing. Competition is a good thing for us all , but I am happy to pay a little extra for something that looks the part as well as produces the goods.

I look forward to the numbers when they arrive.