Dreaded Rev Ranges

[nickd01]

I had my car appraised by a dealer today, and they plugged in the gadget that reads rev ranges.

Basically, it had 65,000+ rev ranges in zone 1 and a lot in the other zones (I didn't see what) I think they said it has a few in the higher range (5 I think) but that happened 800 hours ago. Basically it's been thrashed and they refused to bid on it - disappointing but fair enough.

I don't rag my car, it sits idle during the week and when it's used it's often with the family so traffic light GP's are out! I've had it five years, never tracked etc. etc.

Either way, is there any chance the readings are wrong? It used to be a warrantied car by Porsche (over 3 years ago now) and 9Excellence did a compression test a couple of years ago an it was fine. I only do about 4,000 miles a year.

I'm just a bit concerned as I really try and take care of it and want to sell it 'in good faith' to whoever it is.

It needs a service, so I'll get a printout of the readings from whoever does the service, but I just want to understand how significant this all might be.

Thanks

[acf69]

Their readout of the car and your indication as to its use don't tally unless the "enthusiastic" driving was before you bought it and if that's the case you've had it some time with no problems.

If you had the readout you could determine how long it had spent in each rev range and someone more learned on here would be able to comment specifically re what it says about the car

[mollytherocker]

Im glad you cant get these read outs on 993's.

Ignorance is bliss isn't it.

[slippery]

There is another thread running where someone has blown a 997 turbo engine and is struggling with a warranty claim due to this data. He is swearing blind that the over revs didn't happen.

[f1ashgordon]

It's significance depends on what your intentions are for the car in future.

Any readings in RR3 and above and Porsche won't warranty it unless some remedial work is done, not sure they'd buy it.

911virgin would reject it for example. So selling it to more appreciative buyers becomes problematic.

Depending on whether there are readings in 4 and above and their veracity you may well have precipitated engine damage which may manifest in the future.

It's all conjecture until you get the readout. And get more than just the most recent. The servicing OPC will have a record.

Ignore my post, misread your original, ninexcellence clarified 996, so not RR5, but 5 in range 2.

Edited by f1ashgordon on Saturday 20th July 22:33

[nickd01]

Thanks, I'll get the readings and go from there.

[Nineexcellence]

nickd01 said:

I had my car appraised by a dealer today, and they plugged in the gadget that reads rev ranges.

Basically, it had 65,000+ rev ranges in zone 1 and a lot in the other zones (I didn't see what) I think they said it has a few in the higher range (5 I think) but that happened 800 hours ago. Basically it's been thrashed and they refused to bid on it - disappointing but fair enough.

I don't rag my car, it sits idle during the week and when it's used it's often with the family so traffic light GP's are out! I've had it five years, never tracked etc. etc.

Either way, is there any chance the readings are wrong? It used to be a warrantied car by Porsche (over 3 years ago now) and 9Excellence did a compression test a couple of years ago an it was fine. I only do about 4,000 miles a year.

I'm just a bit concerned as I really try and take care of it and want to sell it 'in good faith' to whoever it is.

It needs a service, so I'll get a printout of the readings from whoever does the service, but I just want to understand how significant this all might be.

Thanks

The dealer is talking rubbish. You have two rev ranges - the first one can have a maximum of 65556 or something like that - that is the limiter doing its job - perfectly acceptable. The 5 in range 2 is frankly impossible - needs to be a value of 10 or above to make it plausible.

Find another dealer.

Ken

P.s just to add Nick whist yours is a manual most tip cars have 65556 in RR1 guess why because if you keep your foot down and the car shifts at max revs, it hits the limiter every time!!!! It has nothing to do with being thrashed

Edited by Nineexcellence on Saturday 20th July 19:30

[sidicks]

Nineexcellence said:

The dealer is talking rubbish. You have two rev ranges - the first one can have a maximum of 65556 or something like that - that is the limiter doing its job - perfectly acceptable. The 5 in range 2 is frankly impossible - needs to be a value of 10 or above to make it plausible.

Find another dealer.

Ken

Aren't you confusing the 996 and the 997 ? There are definitely 6 ranges for the 997...

[Nineexcellence]

sidicks said:

Nineexcellence said:

The dealer is talking rubbish. You have two rev ranges - the first one can have a maximum of 65556 or something like that - that is the limiter doing its job - perfectly acceptable. The 5 in range 2 is frankly impossible - needs to be a value of 10 or above to make it plausible.

Find another dealer.

Ken

Aren't you confusing the 996 and the 997 ? There are definitely 6 ranges for the 997...

No because he has a 996 turbo.e.g he has a count of 5 in RR2

[sidicks]

Nineexcellence said:

No because he has a 996 turbo.e.g he has a count of 5 in RR2

Apologies, I mis-read the original post!

[m33ufo]

I don't think you can rely on the "5" in the original post. Basically you need to get a printout of the RR results and take it from there.

[Nineexcellence]

sidicks said:

Nineexcellence said:

No because he has a 996 turbo.e.g he has a count of 5 in RR2

Apologies, I mis-read the original post!

No issues - the car he has is lovely. He has maintained it very well and for information the only reason why he had a compression test is that when we do a plug change, we normally take the opportunity to do one as it doesn't take long.

[ellroy]

Out of pure interest, and just having read the 997 turbo thread, what do theses rev ranges equate to in terms of readings on the dash?

Rev 1 is 6000-7000 etc etc??

[m33ufo]

Depends on the car you're talking about but they refer to anything over the red line. Red line on my 997S Gen2 is 7500.

Rev range 1: 7,500 to 7,700
Rev range 2: 7,700 to 7,900
Rev range 3: 7,900 to 8,100
Rev range 4: 8,100 to 8,400
Rev range 5: 8,400 to 8,900
Rev range 6: over 8,900

[ellroy]

Many thanks, now makes a lot more sense.

[Tom 911V]

Nineexcellence said:

nickd01 said:

I had my car appraised by a dealer today, and they plugged in the gadget that reads rev ranges.

Basically, it had 65,000+ rev ranges in zone 1 and a lot in the other zones (I didn't see what) I think they said it has a few in the higher range (5 I think) but that happened 800 hours ago. Basically it's been thrashed and they refused to bid on it - disappointing but fair enough.

I don't rag my car, it sits idle during the week and when it's used it's often with the family so traffic light GP's are out! I've had it five years, never tracked etc. etc.

Either way, is there any chance the readings are wrong? It used to be a warrantied car by Porsche (over 3 years ago now) and 9Excellence did a compression test a couple of years ago an it was fine. I only do about 4,000 miles a year.

I'm just a bit concerned as I really try and take care of it and want to sell it 'in good faith' to whoever it is.

It needs a service, so I'll get a printout of the readings from whoever does the service, but I just want to understand how significant this all might be.

Thanks

The dealer is talking rubbish. You have two rev ranges - the first one can have a maximum of 65556 or something like that - that is the limiter doing its job - perfectly acceptable. The 5 in range 2 is frankly impossible - needs to be a value of 10 or above to make it plausible.

Find another dealer.

Ken

P.s just to add Nick whist yours is a manual most tip cars have 65556 in RR1 guess why because if you keep your foot down and the car shifts at max revs, it hits the limiter every time!!!! It has nothing to do with being thrashed

Edited by Nineexcellence on Saturday 20th July 19:30

In the interests of transparency it was ourselves, 911virgin, that looked at the car. Nick and I met briefly, a colleague inspected the car and discussed his findings and the ECU report with me before we made the decision that the car was probably not for us. I would agree with Ken in suggesting that the maxed out ignitions in RR1 are not reason enough to reject a car. They give a feel for how the car has been driven but given the limiter is set to prevent damage being done, in the eyes of the manufacturer a car with 65556 ignitions recorded at the limiter is seen to have been driven within tolerance despite this representing more than 3 minutes of accumulated red line activity. Had the data logger recorded 5 ignitions in RR2 (missed gear down change) I would consider it to be erroneous. Assuming we were happy with everything else this would not necessarily prevent us from buying the car. In this instance, however, the RR 2 activity was closer to 500 ignitions representing a genuine over rev event of some significance. If required I'm more than happy to explain why this prevents our acquisition of a car and of course more than happy to provide advise and further interpretation if required.
Sorry we weren't able to buy the car Nick. I appreciate you making the effort to bring it to us.


Tom 911V

[m33ufo]

Hope you're getting paid overtime Tom?

[Nineexcellence]

Tom 911V said:

Nineexcellence said:

nickd01 said:

I had my car appraised by a dealer today, and they plugged in the gadget that reads rev ranges.

Basically, it had 65,000+ rev ranges in zone 1 and a lot in the other zones (I didn't see what) I think they said it has a few in the higher range (5 I think) but that happened 800 hours ago. Basically it's been thrashed and they refused to bid on it - disappointing but fair enough.

I don't rag my car, it sits idle during the week and when it's used it's often with the family so traffic light GP's are out! I've had it five years, never tracked etc. etc.

Either way, is there any chance the readings are wrong? It used to be a warrantied car by Porsche (over 3 years ago now) and 9Excellence did a compression test a couple of years ago an it was fine. I only do about 4,000 miles a year.

I'm just a bit concerned as I really try and take care of it and want to sell it 'in good faith' to whoever it is.

It needs a service, so I'll get a printout of the readings from whoever does the service, but I just want to understand how significant this all might be.

Thanks

The dealer is talking rubbish. You have two rev ranges - the first one can have a maximum of 65556 or something like that - that is the limiter doing its job - perfectly acceptable. The 5 in range 2 is frankly impossible - needs to be a value of 10 or above to make it plausible.

Find another dealer.

Ken

P.s just to add Nick whist yours is a manual most tip cars have 65556 in RR1 guess why because if you keep your foot down and the car shifts at max revs, it hits the limiter every time!!!! It has nothing to do with being thrashed

Edited by Nineexcellence on Saturday 20th July 19:30

In the interests of transparency it was ourselves, 911virgin, that looked at the car. Nick and I met briefly, a colleague inspected the car and discussed his findings and the ECU report with me before we made the decision that the car was probably not for us. I would agree with Ken in suggesting that the maxed out ignitions in RR1 are not reason enough to reject a car. They give a feel for how the car has been driven but given the limiter is set to prevent damage being done, in the eyes of the manufacturer a car with 65556 ignitions recorded at the limiter is seen to have been driven within tolerance despite this representing more than 3 minutes of accumulated red line activity. Had the data logger recorded 5 ignitions in RR2 (missed gear down change) I would consider it to be erroneous. Assuming we were happy with everything else this would not necessarily prevent us from buying the car. In this instance, however, the RR 2 activity was closer to 500 ignitions representing a genuine over rev event of some significance. If required I'm more than happy to explain why this prevents our acquisition of a car and of course more than happy to provide advise and further interpretation if required.
Sorry we weren't able to buy the car Nick. I appreciate you making the effort to bring it to us.


Tom 911V

Tom,

I know you don't talk rubbish so it is a given that is retracted given the new information.

Talk soon.

Ken

[Durzel]

I wouldn't even buy a car with that many ignitions in RR1 to be honest. When I sold my Cayman S it had from memory 18 ignitions in RR1 and nothing in any of the others. I suppose I'm inviting accusations of docile driving, but in reality I just changed up before bouncing off the limiter...

[slippery]

ash73 said:

Indeed. Do other mainstream manufacturers' ECUs report on over-revs, or is it just Porsche? Not seen it mentioned before.

My old VXR8 used to record the revs and gear that the car was in when a fault code appeared. Not sure what else it retained.