Input needed for Trackday car. E36 or E46?
Discussion
Hello everybody
First post on PistonHeads after a lot of poking around
So here's the deal. I live in Denmark and would like to build a track day car as many of you in here are doing. I do however have some basic questions regarding where to start, what to do and more importantly what NOT to do. I am very very unexperienced in working with cars, which is one of the reasons for doing a project like this. To learn more about cars. I am not looking to make a DTM race car or anything like that. I do want to make a good solid track car which is road legal to take to trackdays in and around Denmark and ever so often to the Ring. My track experience comprises of several trips to the Ring with a few laps on each trip. I also want to use the car to learn how to drive on a track better than in my brothers diesel 1-series.
So here's my plan so far. I have been looking at local cars and importing from Germany. My search criteria are as follows:
BMW E36 323i post '96
Up to 200,000 km (125k miles)
Manual
As stock as possible
Budget for the car: under 40,000 Dkk on the road in DK (import from DE around Euro 2000)
Why this? Well I want the ESP. I've read that the M52B25 is a solid engine and since it is lighter than the B28 it has better balance and as I'm not making a race car it has sufficient power. Why a sedan? It's cheaper than the coupe. Why not an M3? These are VERY expensive in Denmark due to the tax situation (180% on cars....it's not a typo 180%). The 200,000 mark is not scientific, but the cars in my price range are in this area.
So first question. Do any of you see any problems in my search so far?
Next question. What about an E46 (same engine and milage etc)? Would that be a better choice? I've read that the E36 is easier to work on and maybe cheaper in parts (but that's mostly from reading about M3 builds). Any input on that for a non-M? I don't see any price difference in the upgrade parts I'm looking at.
Any input on the milage? What's the upper limit on that for a build like this?
On to what I want to do to the car and parts I'm looking at.
Suspension: H&R Monotube Coilover
H&R ARB's front and rear
Brake upgrade: EBC Yellow Stuff pads + some kind of upgrade discs (any ideas?) + braided lines
Brake cooling duct kit
Cage: Bolt in (OMP?), maybe a welded cage if budget provides, but it's also really hard to find anyone who does cages in DK (anyone with references?)
Powerflex bushings all around
Vibra Technics engine mounts
Strut brace front
K&N airfilter
Sparco Pro 200 seats
4-point harnesses
New exhaust when the stock one needs replacing anyway.
Down the line I would like to look into a caliper upgrade plus some more weight saving measures like polycarbonate windows, lightweight hood and boot lid, etc.
So, what do you say? Anything here totally out of whack?
Looking forward to your input
Br
Klaus
First post on PistonHeads after a lot of poking around
So here's the deal. I live in Denmark and would like to build a track day car as many of you in here are doing. I do however have some basic questions regarding where to start, what to do and more importantly what NOT to do. I am very very unexperienced in working with cars, which is one of the reasons for doing a project like this. To learn more about cars. I am not looking to make a DTM race car or anything like that. I do want to make a good solid track car which is road legal to take to trackdays in and around Denmark and ever so often to the Ring. My track experience comprises of several trips to the Ring with a few laps on each trip. I also want to use the car to learn how to drive on a track better than in my brothers diesel 1-series.
So here's my plan so far. I have been looking at local cars and importing from Germany. My search criteria are as follows:
BMW E36 323i post '96
Up to 200,000 km (125k miles)
Manual
As stock as possible
Budget for the car: under 40,000 Dkk on the road in DK (import from DE around Euro 2000)
Why this? Well I want the ESP. I've read that the M52B25 is a solid engine and since it is lighter than the B28 it has better balance and as I'm not making a race car it has sufficient power. Why a sedan? It's cheaper than the coupe. Why not an M3? These are VERY expensive in Denmark due to the tax situation (180% on cars....it's not a typo 180%). The 200,000 mark is not scientific, but the cars in my price range are in this area.
So first question. Do any of you see any problems in my search so far?
Next question. What about an E46 (same engine and milage etc)? Would that be a better choice? I've read that the E36 is easier to work on and maybe cheaper in parts (but that's mostly from reading about M3 builds). Any input on that for a non-M? I don't see any price difference in the upgrade parts I'm looking at.
Any input on the milage? What's the upper limit on that for a build like this?
On to what I want to do to the car and parts I'm looking at.
Suspension: H&R Monotube Coilover
H&R ARB's front and rear
Brake upgrade: EBC Yellow Stuff pads + some kind of upgrade discs (any ideas?) + braided lines
Brake cooling duct kit
Cage: Bolt in (OMP?), maybe a welded cage if budget provides, but it's also really hard to find anyone who does cages in DK (anyone with references?)
Powerflex bushings all around
Vibra Technics engine mounts
Strut brace front
K&N airfilter
Sparco Pro 200 seats
4-point harnesses
New exhaust when the stock one needs replacing anyway.
Down the line I would like to look into a caliper upgrade plus some more weight saving measures like polycarbonate windows, lightweight hood and boot lid, etc.
So, what do you say? Anything here totally out of whack?
Looking forward to your input
Br
Klaus
Hi, I would go for an e36.
Loads of parts available, cheap to run and maintain.
I should imagine it will be alot lighter than an e46 too.
I would go for as new as possible so 1999 either a 323 that's a 2.5 or the 328 that way your probably going to get a rust free chassis to start with.
I would leave the engine standard and work on the suspension, lower a bit and new bushes. I wouldn't power flex it because I think you need a little give in certain components to releave stress from other parts like ball joints ect.
You don't need massive wheels either, I would stick with 16" or 17, the latter will be cheaper for tyres.
Loads of parts available, cheap to run and maintain.
I should imagine it will be alot lighter than an e46 too.
I would go for as new as possible so 1999 either a 323 that's a 2.5 or the 328 that way your probably going to get a rust free chassis to start with.
I would leave the engine standard and work on the suspension, lower a bit and new bushes. I wouldn't power flex it because I think you need a little give in certain components to releave stress from other parts like ball joints ect.
You don't need massive wheels either, I would stick with 16" or 17, the latter will be cheaper for tyres.
Edited by steve_bmw on Sunday 25th August 20:48
I'd go E36 as it's so easy to work on.
In owning mine, I've...
- replaced the intake manifold
- replaced the air intake system
- removed the traction control completely
- replaced all shock absorbers
- replaced all springs
- changed the differential
- fitted a full exhaust system
- changed both bumpers
- replaced the interior
- done oil changes
- changed spark plugs
- changed brakes (as in, calipers/discs/pads)
- uprated & flushed cooling system
- bled braking system
They are so, so easy to work on. They're also very difficult to break, so if you do bodge something, it can be fixed with no real worries.
They are also more interactive than the E46, in my opinion. I recently took mine to the Nurburgring (like everyone does), and it was so nice to have on there. They also get under your skin. Buy one, enjoy it. If you get a 323i, they're very easy to get to 200bhp+. My 328i is running 233bhp currently (dyno verified), and it's not even finished performance-wise.
In owning mine, I've...
- replaced the intake manifold
- replaced the air intake system
- removed the traction control completely
- replaced all shock absorbers
- replaced all springs
- changed the differential
- fitted a full exhaust system
- changed both bumpers
- replaced the interior
- done oil changes
- changed spark plugs
- changed brakes (as in, calipers/discs/pads)
- uprated & flushed cooling system
- bled braking system
They are so, so easy to work on. They're also very difficult to break, so if you do bodge something, it can be fixed with no real worries.
They are also more interactive than the E46, in my opinion. I recently took mine to the Nurburgring (like everyone does), and it was so nice to have on there. They also get under your skin. Buy one, enjoy it. If you get a 323i, they're very easy to get to 200bhp+. My 328i is running 233bhp currently (dyno verified), and it's not even finished performance-wise.
I would say E36 but in 328i shape.
And since it would be a track car, would you really need to register it?
Have a look at http://www.pistonheads.com/news/default.asp?storyI... for the possibilities.
And since it would be a track car, would you really need to register it?
Have a look at http://www.pistonheads.com/news/default.asp?storyI... for the possibilities.
No worries. You'll really enjoy working on the E36, I'm not a mechanic by any stretch but I absolutely love tweaking it- everything is just so easy to mess about with. Except for the odd snapped exhaust manifold stud... 
I use a few sites for guides too.... Doug's DIY is great, as is Pelican. Between those two sites there won't be much you can't do.
I use a few sites for guides too.... Doug's DIY is great, as is Pelican. Between those two sites there won't be much you can't do.
I too would go with the E36. Just got back from the Ring on Monday having carried out a few tweaks before hand. I would stay well away from EBC products though. Both myself and a few friends have had yellowstuffs break up completely. I'm running 4pot brembo calipers up front on mine and standard rears and the yellow stuffs didn't even survive a track day at brands hatch. I put some pagids on for the ring and they have been excellent. Powerflex bushes are very good. I would recommend Rouge Engineering solid rear top mounts and rear trailing arm bushes though. The rest of your spec sounds good. You should have a lovely car at the end of it.
KlausH79 said:
Hello everybody
First post on PistonHeads after a lot of poking around
So here's the deal. I live in Denmark and would like to build a track day car as many of you in here are doing. I do however have some basic questions regarding where to start, what to do and more importantly what NOT to do. I am very very unexperienced in working with cars, which is one of the reasons for doing a project like this. To learn more about cars. I am not looking to make a DTM race car or anything like that. I do want to make a good solid track car which is road legal to take to trackdays in and around Denmark and ever so often to the Ring. My track experience comprises of several trips to the Ring with a few laps on each trip. I also want to use the car to learn how to drive on a track better than in my brothers diesel 1-series.
So here's my plan so far. I have been looking at local cars and importing from Germany. My search criteria are as follows:
BMW E36 323i post '96
Up to 200,000 km (125k miles)
Manual
As stock as possible
Budget for the car: under 40,000 Dkk on the road in DK (import from DE around Euro 2000)
Why this? Well I want the ESP. I've read that the M52B25 is a solid engine and since it is lighter than the B28 it has better balance and as I'm not making a race car it has sufficient power. Why a sedan? It's cheaper than the coupe. Why not an M3? These are VERY expensive in Denmark due to the tax situation (180% on cars....it's not a typo 180%). The 200,000 mark is not scientific, but the cars in my price range are in this area.
So first question. Do any of you see any problems in my search so far?
Next question. What about an E46 (same engine and milage etc)? Would that be a better choice? I've read that the E36 is easier to work on and maybe cheaper in parts (but that's mostly from reading about M3 builds). Any input on that for a non-M? I don't see any price difference in the upgrade parts I'm looking at.
Any input on the milage? What's the upper limit on that for a build like this?
On to what I want to do to the car and parts I'm looking at.
Suspension: H&R Monotube Coilover
H&R ARB's front and rear
Brake upgrade: EBC Yellow Stuff pads + some kind of upgrade discs (any ideas?) + braided lines
Brake cooling duct kit
Cage: Bolt in (OMP?), maybe a welded cage if budget provides, but it's also really hard to find anyone who does cages in DK (anyone with references?)
Powerflex bushings all around
Vibra Technics engine mounts
Strut brace front
K&N airfilter
Sparco Pro 200 seats
4-point harnesses
New exhaust when the stock one needs replacing anyway.
Down the line I would like to look into a caliper upgrade plus some more weight saving measures like polycarbonate windows, lightweight hood and boot lid, etc.
So, what do you say? Anything here totally out of whack?
Looking forward to your input
Br
Klaus
My input-First post on PistonHeads after a lot of poking around
So here's the deal. I live in Denmark and would like to build a track day car as many of you in here are doing. I do however have some basic questions regarding where to start, what to do and more importantly what NOT to do. I am very very unexperienced in working with cars, which is one of the reasons for doing a project like this. To learn more about cars. I am not looking to make a DTM race car or anything like that. I do want to make a good solid track car which is road legal to take to trackdays in and around Denmark and ever so often to the Ring. My track experience comprises of several trips to the Ring with a few laps on each trip. I also want to use the car to learn how to drive on a track better than in my brothers diesel 1-series.
So here's my plan so far. I have been looking at local cars and importing from Germany. My search criteria are as follows:
BMW E36 323i post '96
Up to 200,000 km (125k miles)
Manual
As stock as possible
Budget for the car: under 40,000 Dkk on the road in DK (import from DE around Euro 2000)
Why this? Well I want the ESP. I've read that the M52B25 is a solid engine and since it is lighter than the B28 it has better balance and as I'm not making a race car it has sufficient power. Why a sedan? It's cheaper than the coupe. Why not an M3? These are VERY expensive in Denmark due to the tax situation (180% on cars....it's not a typo 180%). The 200,000 mark is not scientific, but the cars in my price range are in this area.
So first question. Do any of you see any problems in my search so far?
Next question. What about an E46 (same engine and milage etc)? Would that be a better choice? I've read that the E36 is easier to work on and maybe cheaper in parts (but that's mostly from reading about M3 builds). Any input on that for a non-M? I don't see any price difference in the upgrade parts I'm looking at.
Any input on the milage? What's the upper limit on that for a build like this?
On to what I want to do to the car and parts I'm looking at.
Suspension: H&R Monotube Coilover
H&R ARB's front and rear
Brake upgrade: EBC Yellow Stuff pads + some kind of upgrade discs (any ideas?) + braided lines
Brake cooling duct kit
Cage: Bolt in (OMP?), maybe a welded cage if budget provides, but it's also really hard to find anyone who does cages in DK (anyone with references?)
Powerflex bushings all around
Vibra Technics engine mounts
Strut brace front
K&N airfilter
Sparco Pro 200 seats
4-point harnesses
New exhaust when the stock one needs replacing anyway.
Down the line I would like to look into a caliper upgrade plus some more weight saving measures like polycarbonate windows, lightweight hood and boot lid, etc.
So, what do you say? Anything here totally out of whack?
Looking forward to your input
Br
Klaus
Strut brace, pointless tat save your money, ditto k&n, (tho in a proper enclosed box or a carbo jobbie they do sound fab, vibra techs nah, just use new stock & reinforce the subframe as they pull out, OMP cage is fine, I prefer it over the Safety Devices or Weichers cages anyway, much prefer the through dash A pillar design, give far more space & getting in & out is easier, ebc yellows & stock or OE quailty discs is fine, I happily track a 328 on stock new Brembo doscs & ebc yellows, don't waste money on the anti roll bars spend it on an lsd, ditch the traction control crap, min is 3.15 ratio M3 3.0 dif, or an evo dif 3.23, but really ideally you want a lower final drive in there,
Is my M3 in the vid above, has H&R cup kit but with firmer rear spings, stock ARBs, OMP cage, lots of camber, cheap pads- Axxis ULT, came as hand lugage from the USA £100 for front & rears, fab on 'ring but bit lacking other tracks, tho do last ok.
ref milage, Id be happy to 250k miles easy, engines are cheap, gearboxes even cheaper & all consumables will be replaced anyway, I've tracked hard a 225k miler 328 & know 3 others all in the 180k miles area & all tracked hard.
oh I'd vote for going the 328 route too, far more grunt available with v cheap mods over the 2.5s & peanuts in Uk a decent rot free saloon from £400, mine was £600 & it was awesome
Alright! Thanks
So this just in. I found a 2001 e46 325ti (Compact) with 288kkm (180k miles), full service history, looks to be in really good condition, has been driven in "rural" Denmark so I don't think it's been a teenage pocket rocket ;o) Price is within my budget.
i know it's a Compact and that wasn't my first choice, but since there's a race series for Compacts, I guess they are ok for the track. From what I can read on the M54B25 it's a really solid engine. Another reservation with this is the Electronic Throttle Control. Is that a problem in any way?
Anything I should be weary of?
Looking forward to ANY input or thoughts you might have....
So this just in. I found a 2001 e46 325ti (Compact) with 288kkm (180k miles), full service history, looks to be in really good condition, has been driven in "rural" Denmark so I don't think it's been a teenage pocket rocket ;o) Price is within my budget.
i know it's a Compact and that wasn't my first choice, but since there's a race series for Compacts, I guess they are ok for the track. From what I can read on the M54B25 it's a really solid engine. Another reservation with this is the Electronic Throttle Control. Is that a problem in any way?
Anything I should be weary of?
Looking forward to ANY input or thoughts you might have....
KlausH79 said:
Alright! Thanks
So this just in. I found a 2001 e46 325ti (Compact) with 288kkm (180k miles), full service history, looks to be in really good condition, has been driven in "rural" Denmark so I don't think it's been a teenage pocket rocket ;o) Price is within my budget.
i know it's a Compact and that wasn't my first choice, but since there's a race series for Compacts, I guess they are ok for the track. From what I can read on the M54B25 it's a really solid engine. Another reservation with this is the Electronic Throttle Control. Is that a problem in any way?
Anything I should be weary of?
Looking forward to ANY input or thoughts you might have....
You can reset the adaptation easily yourself or you can have it re-mapped to suit your own preferences, remember even stuff like the E46 CSL has an electronic throttle and differences will be down to the mapping. The E46s you were interested in are electronic throttle anywaySo this just in. I found a 2001 e46 325ti (Compact) with 288kkm (180k miles), full service history, looks to be in really good condition, has been driven in "rural" Denmark so I don't think it's been a teenage pocket rocket ;o) Price is within my budget.
i know it's a Compact and that wasn't my first choice, but since there's a race series for Compacts, I guess they are ok for the track. From what I can read on the M54B25 it's a really solid engine. Another reservation with this is the Electronic Throttle Control. Is that a problem in any way?
Anything I should be weary of?
Looking forward to ANY input or thoughts you might have....
Alternatively you can buy a cable conversion but you will lose out on some of the stuff linked to the DBW system
Hey Guys
This just in. I took a look at the E46 Compact tonight and it is prestine. all stock apart from rear lights and M3 mirrors. All services done to the T and all is perfect. Wel almost. It jumps out of 3rd gear now and again. I was intending to install a short shift on it anyways. Is this anything to worry about???
Please let me know ASAP....
Klaus
This just in. I took a look at the E46 Compact tonight and it is prestine. all stock apart from rear lights and M3 mirrors. All services done to the T and all is perfect. Wel almost. It jumps out of 3rd gear now and again. I was intending to install a short shift on it anyways. Is this anything to worry about???
Please let me know ASAP....
Klaus
KlausH79 said:
Hey Guys
This just in. I took a look at the E46 Compact tonight and it is prestine. all stock apart from rear lights and M3 mirrors. All services done to the T and all is perfect. Wel almost. It jumps out of 3rd gear now and again. I was intending to install a short shift on it anyways. Is this anything to worry about???
Please let me know ASAP....
Klaus
walk away. .plenty more about.This just in. I took a look at the E46 Compact tonight and it is prestine. all stock apart from rear lights and M3 mirrors. All services done to the T and all is perfect. Wel almost. It jumps out of 3rd gear now and again. I was intending to install a short shift on it anyways. Is this anything to worry about???
Please let me know ASAP....
Klaus
KlausH79 said:
It turns out it started popping out of 3rd after the clutch was changed at a routine service. Does this make any difference?
Could be just a problem with the linkage for the shift..... Or maybe something more expensive. I'd look at some other cars unless he's going to sort it out or you're getting it really cheap
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