What is wrong with McLaren?!!!!
Discussion
Congratulations to Porsche, Michelin and Marc Lieb and their sub-7m lap of the ‘Ring and it makes me think of a few things…
Michelin, in my opinion they are on a different level. I remember driving the Clio 182 with its Michelins and thinking that this tyre/car combination was just perfect. James Thompson once told me he’d been tyre testing at Vallelunga and Michelin had rolled out a tyre which was 2-3 seconds a lap faster and had no drop off! He was desperate to find the letter that defined the tyre (Michelins at that time were defined by a letter “M” etc) these had no markings, “James” the Michelin man said “These are in case someone comes to challenge us and we need to find something…”
The other part of that record that shouldn’t be ignored is that played by Marc Lieb. Once you start producing laps at this level its just not possible to rock up at the end of the industry pool session, take 1 lap and do the time. Not only that but it is obvious that not everyone can do these times and so this is as much a Marc Lieb achievement as anyone else.
It also demonstrates that you can never ever dismiss the capabilities of Porsche, and you can guarantee they will do things properly. I remember being at Brands Hatch conducting a performance car of the year contest with a magazine. I’d just driven the MG SV and thought it was absolute junk, not only could I not understand why journalists the world over hadn’t already declared it as such I couldn't understand the people that, at some point, had sat around a table and declared that it was all sorted. Not only had they some how managed to de-engineer the V8 motor, which felt more like 200bhp, it had a 3rd gear that you could set the land speed record with and it over heated after 2 laps of Brands Hatch.
Of course the big issue was over heating and so I asked the MG guy that was in the paddock, he had the title “chief engineer”… Great I thought, there must be something wrong with the car (maybe something is blocked etc). Imagine my surprise when this guy starts firing into me! He starts telling me that the car has been in Arizona hot weather testing, at the Nurburgring performance testing and all with no problems; it must be me! I was furious. I called him a liar and told him to come with me. We both got into a Porsche 996 GT3. I thrashed it for 15 minutes with nothing left on the table. I then asked him if he considered I’d abused the car enough, and we pulled into the pitlane/paddock flat out. I turned the car off and let the heat soak for 5 mins and with an indicated 90o water temp it hadn’t even moved. Of course MG folded within the year and Porsche continue to make fine sports cars that work.
For some reason the contemporary sports car path is littered with British bodies, MG, TVR, Caparo, Noble. Which leads us to the elephant in the room what is going on at McLaren?!!
I don’t know why but it seems to me that McLaren are making this harder work than it should be. I completely lost interest in the MP4-12C as soon as the guy at Woking started talking complete and utter marketing nonsense with regards to the technology inside. Now we can all argue over their science but I can tell you when I look at the claims that this thing was so far ahead of the competition (F1 this, F1 that) and then we see it laid to waste on a lap by the Ferrari 458 frankly I don’t care.
So how are we getting on with the P1? Well it seems badly by all accounts. 7m 04sec OR just read slower than the understated Porsche 918. I’m hearing that McLaren are now trying to back pedal from a Nurburgring fight and that they don’t really care although that isn’t true is it? After all didn’t they already send an MP4-12C down the barriers at the ‘Ring whilst a film crew and helicopter looked on? Then to top it all Ron Dennis came out with the sub-7min lap comment.
Then I hear that McLaren have fallen out with the MD Anthony Sheriff, which led me to look at the people behind the P1 and I think I’ve found the problem. When someone like Sheriff says the P1 will be the fastest, or Ron Dennis says the P1 will lap the ‘Ring in 6-something what qualifies them to say these things? Ron’s terms of reference for a fast lap of the ‘Ring are as credible as a business school grad’s references for what makes a great sportscar, or Jay Leno’s for that matter! It is more than slightly embarrassing. McLaren need to get some proper people involved, pull their fingers out and start making something the McLaren brand deserves.
Michelin, in my opinion they are on a different level. I remember driving the Clio 182 with its Michelins and thinking that this tyre/car combination was just perfect. James Thompson once told me he’d been tyre testing at Vallelunga and Michelin had rolled out a tyre which was 2-3 seconds a lap faster and had no drop off! He was desperate to find the letter that defined the tyre (Michelins at that time were defined by a letter “M” etc) these had no markings, “James” the Michelin man said “These are in case someone comes to challenge us and we need to find something…”
The other part of that record that shouldn’t be ignored is that played by Marc Lieb. Once you start producing laps at this level its just not possible to rock up at the end of the industry pool session, take 1 lap and do the time. Not only that but it is obvious that not everyone can do these times and so this is as much a Marc Lieb achievement as anyone else.
It also demonstrates that you can never ever dismiss the capabilities of Porsche, and you can guarantee they will do things properly. I remember being at Brands Hatch conducting a performance car of the year contest with a magazine. I’d just driven the MG SV and thought it was absolute junk, not only could I not understand why journalists the world over hadn’t already declared it as such I couldn't understand the people that, at some point, had sat around a table and declared that it was all sorted. Not only had they some how managed to de-engineer the V8 motor, which felt more like 200bhp, it had a 3rd gear that you could set the land speed record with and it over heated after 2 laps of Brands Hatch.
Of course the big issue was over heating and so I asked the MG guy that was in the paddock, he had the title “chief engineer”… Great I thought, there must be something wrong with the car (maybe something is blocked etc). Imagine my surprise when this guy starts firing into me! He starts telling me that the car has been in Arizona hot weather testing, at the Nurburgring performance testing and all with no problems; it must be me! I was furious. I called him a liar and told him to come with me. We both got into a Porsche 996 GT3. I thrashed it for 15 minutes with nothing left on the table. I then asked him if he considered I’d abused the car enough, and we pulled into the pitlane/paddock flat out. I turned the car off and let the heat soak for 5 mins and with an indicated 90o water temp it hadn’t even moved. Of course MG folded within the year and Porsche continue to make fine sports cars that work.
For some reason the contemporary sports car path is littered with British bodies, MG, TVR, Caparo, Noble. Which leads us to the elephant in the room what is going on at McLaren?!!
I don’t know why but it seems to me that McLaren are making this harder work than it should be. I completely lost interest in the MP4-12C as soon as the guy at Woking started talking complete and utter marketing nonsense with regards to the technology inside. Now we can all argue over their science but I can tell you when I look at the claims that this thing was so far ahead of the competition (F1 this, F1 that) and then we see it laid to waste on a lap by the Ferrari 458 frankly I don’t care.
So how are we getting on with the P1? Well it seems badly by all accounts. 7m 04sec OR just read slower than the understated Porsche 918. I’m hearing that McLaren are now trying to back pedal from a Nurburgring fight and that they don’t really care although that isn’t true is it? After all didn’t they already send an MP4-12C down the barriers at the ‘Ring whilst a film crew and helicopter looked on? Then to top it all Ron Dennis came out with the sub-7min lap comment.
Then I hear that McLaren have fallen out with the MD Anthony Sheriff, which led me to look at the people behind the P1 and I think I’ve found the problem. When someone like Sheriff says the P1 will be the fastest, or Ron Dennis says the P1 will lap the ‘Ring in 6-something what qualifies them to say these things? Ron’s terms of reference for a fast lap of the ‘Ring are as credible as a business school grad’s references for what makes a great sportscar, or Jay Leno’s for that matter! It is more than slightly embarrassing. McLaren need to get some proper people involved, pull their fingers out and start making something the McLaren brand deserves.
Edited by philbennett on Thursday 12th September 11:44
Sorry, and the point of this post is what exactly?
Surely this should be on some porsche snoggers fan site somewhere?? ;-)
(to save everyone else the trouble of wading through that diatribe, in summary:
Porsche are AMAZING.
MG are CRAP
Mclaren need to pull their finger out
)
Surely this should be on some porsche snoggers fan site somewhere?? ;-)
(to save everyone else the trouble of wading through that diatribe, in summary:
Porsche are AMAZING.
MG are CRAP
Mclaren need to pull their finger out
)
Edited by anonymous-user on Thursday 12th September 11:58
Yeah, it looks really slow and sh*te
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ydBFCUhwku8
Sounds awful too
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fX7EEIqd8qk
why don't you wait for the finished product rather than writing a load of guesswork.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ydBFCUhwku8
Sounds awful too
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fX7EEIqd8qk
why don't you wait for the finished product rather than writing a load of guesswork.
Umm, I think McLaren is the last company you could accuse of "not doing something properly". You don't have to like the company, its boss and employees, its team or its products, but you have to respect that under the leadership of Sir Ron it has become a uniquely succesful business. Granted, Ron and his senior guys may sometimes commit the odd crime against English and speak highly of synergetic business strategies and the like, but it is a common misconception to think they don't have petrol in their veins. Someone does not create the most succesful and influential F1 team of its time, or the car most commonly regarded as the best ever, or a start-up car manufacturing business without knowing which way is up.
oi oi... the fog of why Britain doesn't have a sportscar industry is starting to lift!
I'm not sure where in that piece I said the P1 was utter junk btw - I was referring to the MG, which certainly was and its clue to over heating was the steam/water being ejected from the rad... maybe they needed a better cap? Maybe it was a world beater expect history suggests it wasn't and it wasn't on that day.
Nurburgring is one benchmark and its one that it is failing. Its a view.
I'm not sure where in that piece I said the P1 was utter junk btw - I was referring to the MG, which certainly was and its clue to over heating was the steam/water being ejected from the rad... maybe they needed a better cap? Maybe it was a world beater expect history suggests it wasn't and it wasn't on that day.
Nurburgring is one benchmark and its one that it is failing. Its a view.
Max_Torque said:
Sorry, and the point of this post is what exactly?
Surely this should be on some porsche snoggers fan site somewhere?? ;-)
(to save everyone else the trouble of wading through that diatribe, in summary:
Porsche are AMAZING.
MG are CRAP
Mclaren need to pull their finger out)
Thanks for that. I read the first couple of lines, then realised it was unintelligible drivel and stopped.Surely this should be on some porsche snoggers fan site somewhere?? ;-)
(to save everyone else the trouble of wading through that diatribe, in summary:
Porsche are AMAZING.
MG are CRAP
Mclaren need to pull their finger out)
Edited by Max_Torque on Thursday 12th September 11:58
I don't think the lap time of the ring really defines a sports car. Personally I couldn't give a s
t about these endless 'ring stats. The way the car drives, sounds, feels, the impression it leaves on you is where it's at rather than just small numbers and big speed.
The Carrera GT was sublime and I expect the new Porker will be the same.
The Mclaren MP4 is a technological feat that is a worthy alternative to those who don't want a Ferrari.
The Mclaren P1... lets wait and see. Will it be the best? Probably not. But I'm sure its going to be really good and will certainly be a special car in its own right.
t about these endless 'ring stats. The way the car drives, sounds, feels, the impression it leaves on you is where it's at rather than just small numbers and big speed. The Carrera GT was sublime and I expect the new Porker will be the same.
The Mclaren MP4 is a technological feat that is a worthy alternative to those who don't want a Ferrari.
The Mclaren P1... lets wait and see. Will it be the best? Probably not. But I'm sure its going to be really good and will certainly be a special car in its own right.
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