Water Pump Leak? (Pics Inside)

[Malcster]

Hi Guys,

After a bit of spirited driving up through the Highlands, I developed a coolant leak. It's coming from (and forming a small pool of water) above the water pump / below the distributor - circled red here...








...whats the best course of action here?
Remove and replace the pump & gasket?

Also I have heard stories of the Valley Gasket going - is that coolant or water related? Also woudl that be a likely cause?

Cheers,

Malc

[jamienshelly]

Hi, have you checked the blanked off hose on the n/s of the engine, I had water pooling in that area and could not find the leak, I moved the hose and it sprayed out. I just cut the pipe down below the split and refitted the bung ( or bolt and jubilee clip in my case).
I hope it is something as simple
Jamie

[Harrytsg]

jamienshelly said:

Hi, have you checked the blanked off hose on the n/s of the engine, I had water pooling in that area and could not find the leak, I moved the hose and it sprayed out. I just cut the pipe down below the split and refitted the bung ( or bolt and jubilee clip in my case).
I hope it is something as simple
Jamie

Check this first. ^^^^^

Steve Heath used to do a coolant leak detector, it is just a adapter to go into the top of the swirl pot that allows you to connect a foot or bike pump, you can then pressurise the system and check for leaks ( without the engine running and cold), unfortunately he isn't trading anymore but you can still see an image of one on his website under coolant leak detector.
They are simple but brilliant, I have one but your a bit far away.

[Harrytsg]

I found a picture of the pipe where it rises from the engine and blanked by a bolt - above and to the right of the oil filler.

It can leak from the top or bottom or anywhere in between.

I have mine in that position to help when bleeding.

[Chuffmeister]

It is worth a check as mentioned above, however, if it is this hose, you would probably find some pooling of coolant in the manifold behind the No.1 injector. If it is leaking that badly, you would also likely see a puddle of coolant at the rear of the valley gasket.

However, firstly, I would check the hose from the thermostat housing to the swirl pot and then tighten the jubilee clips. Failing this, it could be the thermostat housing gasket itself. Coolant will again collect in the valley if this is the case.

If you are still struggling, it may be worth adding a colorant. Forte coolant conditioner tends to turn the coolant bright yellow and helps to identify leaks.

Is it actually dripping down? Can you use a white tissue determine if it actually coolant/ colour of the liquid?

The valley gasket is leak is normally associated with oil, which drips down the front and pools near the alternator clamp. If you've coolant leaking from the valley gasket it will be mixing with the oil and will need changing immediately. This is why it is important to identify the liquid to help find the source!

Edited by Chuffmeister on Sunday 15th September 18:36

[Malcster]

Thanks for the advice guys, I'll check it outand report back.

Can't complain too much - letting her cool and refilling allowed me to get these pics...

[Chuffmeister]

Malcster said:

Thanks for the advice guys, I'll check it outand report back.

Can't complain too much - letting her cool and refilling allowed me to get these pics...

Awesome!

[jamienshelly]

Some people get all the luck, of all the places to "stop", you get a view like that.
When I had to stop (on the way home from buying it) I spent what seemed like an eternity at knutsford services, then many hours in a flat bed on the way home.
As Chris says "awesome view"
And O/T cheers Chris for the pics

[swallet]

My money would be on the thermostat housing or the top hose between stat and swirl pot.
Alternatives are the blanking plug already mentioned or the heater rail to inlet manifold connection.
Water shouldn't run up hill.

A lot easier to see with the alternator off (5min job)

As said valley gasket usually results in oil leak.

[Sardonicus]

May be nothing more than the water-pump gasket between those bolts pictured its bound to blow back into that galley when your moving forward look at the join 1st thing in the morning when its had overnight to seep

[Malcster]

Thanks for all the thoughts lads!
I think I've found it now though...

The water pump and it's gasket looks fine... its actually behind that.

Whatever the water pump bolts to - between that and the block. It's actually where one of the waterpump's long top bolts goes into the block (after passing through something?)

Another piccy....



Its a little up and to the left of where I have circled - exactly where the bolt enters the block.

So....what's the best course of action now?! Pull the bolt out, coat it in some sealant, put it back in and cross my fingers? Or is it more likely that the gasket has had it?

Is removing the water pump, and then whatever is behind the water pump and replacing the gasket against the block an easy job?

Or is this one best left to the garage?

Also, when it's all stripped off - is it as well replacing the water pump as a matter of course (for the sake of £60 odds)?

Thanks again!

[Chuffmeister]

Front cover that houses the oil pump and timing chain. I think you need to get the sump off, timing belt, crank pulley and water pump. Have you tried tightening it up first?

[Sardonicus]

Malcster said:

Thanks for all the thoughts lads!
I think I've found it now though...

The water pump and it's gasket looks fine... its actually behind that.

Whatever the water pump bolts to - between that and the block. It's actually where one of the waterpump's long top bolts goes into the block (after passing through something?)

Another piccy....



Its a little up and to the left of where I have circled - exactly where the bolt enters the block.

So....what's the best course of action now?! Pull the bolt out, coat it in some sealant, put it back in and cross my fingers? Or is it more likely that the gasket has had it?

Is removing the water pump, and then whatever is behind the water pump and replacing the gasket against the block an easy job?

Or is this one best left to the garage?

Also, when it's all stripped off - is it as well replacing the water pump as a matter of course (for the sake of £60 odds)?

Thanks again!

That gasket as breached thats the elastomeric seal poking out on the gasket they are prone to this on the RH water pump outlet (old age) you will see why when you remove the timing cover the gasket area is a bit marginal there

[Malcster]

Okay, thanks guys.

Is this difficult to do?

How long is your average driveway spannerer like me likely to take?
Just a lot of removing parts?

Is there anything else worth changing while I'm at it? Guess the sump gasket, and new oil and filter.

Any crazy sized sockets for pulleys etc?

....better start putting a shopping list together.

[Chuffmeister]

A decent socket set and a few spanners will help with most things, such as the water pump, sump and front cover etc. However, to get the crank pulley off you'll need to put the car into 4th/ 5th (perhaps chock it as well) and use a 1/2 inch break bar. Sardonicus will be able to advise you much better.

[Malcster]

Cheers for that!

Is there any particular order I should strip everything off, to make things easier?

[Chuffmeister]

There are people that know these engines inside out on here, I'm not one of them! However, I would imagine from my fairly limited amount of experience it would be something resembling the below list:

1. Remove lower radiator hose and drain coolant.
2. Remove the Serp belt
3. Remove HT leads and cap from the distributor
5. Remove lower bolt from alternator and move upwards to give more clearance (be careful when closing the bonnet, don't forget to lower again!!!)
6. Remove water pump and hose
7. Put car into fifth gear, chock and loosen/ remove bolt on crank pulley
8. Remove distributor and dizzy clamp (mark the dizzy where it meets the timing cover and note the direction of the rotor arm. This will allow you to put it back exactly the same and maintain the correct timing)
9. Drain oil
10. Remove sump (don't forget to unplug wires from pressure sender)
11. Remove front cover

I could be wrong, but the reason I suggested removing the crank pulley before removing the distributor, is in case you inadvertently move the crank. If you didn't have the dizzy in, it would be difficult to know where the rotor arm should be when refitting, which would mess up your timing. Refitting would be more or less reverse order, but I would be tempted to return and tighten the distributor before you tighten the crank pulley for the above reason.

Whilst you're at it, you may as well fit a new oil filter, put in clean oil, flush the coolant system out and replenish with fresh coolant. New gaskets are strongly advisable (the fibre type sump gasket off Ebay works a treat). I also recommend that you purchase some new sump bolts with spring washers and a spreader plate (check out Rimmer Bros web, very cheap). It is also a good time to clean the earth terminal on the block that resides behind the oil pressure switch. When you've reassembled, be sure to check the hose from the water pump to the 'S' shaped alloy coolant pipe isn't rubbing on the belt.

Hope this helps. I'm open to corrections of course from somebody more experienced!

Edited by Chuffmeister on Tuesday 17th September 09:36

[Malcster]

Brilliant - thanks a lot for that to-do list, much appriciated!

Yeah - just having a look at it now, I think you are correct - just the sump, dizzy and the water pump. I don't think the oil pump would need to come off?

Power steering pump & alternator might get in the way a bit though - but I guess the bolts here can be loosened to allow them to be moved out of the way.

So, as far as a shopping list goes...

- Sump Bolts (and spring washers)
- Spreader Plate (Rimmer bros)
- Waterpump gasket
- Sump gasket (Fibre ebay)
- Crankshaft seal in timing cover
- Timing cover gasket
- Blue Hylomar for the gaskets
- oil filter
- Oil
- Coolant
- Carb Cleaner for the oily bits.

Is this the correct gasket set?
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/RANGE-ROVER-P38-DISCOVER...

Any ideas where I can get the longer bolts for the spreader plate? From what I've read not all TVRs came with them?

...is there anything else I've missed?

Does this sound like it could be achieved in an afternoon btw?

Edited by Malcster on Tuesday 17th September 10:52

[over_the_hill]

I think clearance to get the cover off is a bit tight because of the lateral chassis rails so be prepared for some jiggling - someone may be able to advise on this.

[gavgavgav]

Just to check .... if the front cover gasket is to retain oil (I think everything in there is in oil?), and there is water leaking near the bolt I would suggest that it's simply the water pump gasket causing a leak down the bolt? The gasket goes all the way around the bolt holes;

eg:

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/290699469110?lpid=54&amp...