RE: Alfa Romeo 4C: Review

[Kolbenkopp]

MikeSpencer said:

I read on Autocar's website they were only building 3,500. Who's right?

If that's true, the asking price looks even better IMO. Can't see them dropping much under 20k (about Exige SC level) if at all. So if you keep your 4C a few years, total cost won't be that painful.

[otolith]

MikeSpencer said:

otolith said:

Probably wise, given that's their planned first year output, not their total production.

I read on Autocar's website they were only building 3,500. Who's right?

'Overall, each 4C takes between 20 and 25 hours to build. The company says it has the capacity to produce up to 1000 units per year. Just 3500 examples of the car will be built, with the first deliveries expected early next year.' (Alfa Romeo 4C to cost £45,000. Darren Moss, 17/09/13).

Edited by MikeSpencer on Saturday 21st September 20:07

Interesting if they have capped total production - they were talking about 2500 units a year.

Edited by otolith on Saturday 21st September 21:22

[Goofnik]

Ali_T said:

I'd have agreed with that up to 3 years ago, but our local Saab dealership gave up Saab and reopened as Alfa and, by all accounts are superb. It's enough to make me serious look at buying another Alfa after years of the SCottish dealer network being left in the utterly useless Arnold Clark chain to fester and die.

You should come over to the U.S. then. Alfa dealers are primarily going to be Chrysler dealers, though some of them will instead be part of Maserati dealers.

[Marvib]

Any pictures of these with UK legal plates? Really hope the looks aren't spoilt by this.

[AgentZ]

Bezza1969 said:

AgentZ said:

kambites said:

AgentZ said:

I think in the Alfa's case it does seem like it will end up being closer to 1100kg when/if Autocar get their hands it. Considering the carbon and aluminium spec it looks too much to me. Anyone know the dimensions of the 4C?

I don't think it will be that heavy. That would put it perilously close to the Exige S (which has been weighed by owners at about 1150kg wet with a full tank of fuel and air con).

I wouldn't bank on it! A completely different kind of Alfa but the 1980 Alfasud 1.3 had a claimed kerb weight of 918kg (dry I assume) yet on Autocar's weighbridge it came in at 1088kg.

It's the same story with all cars tested by Autocar I can find on the net from the 70's/80's/90's. Most cars now list the weight to the EC directive which includes full fluids, driver(68kg), luggage(7kg) and 90% full fuel tank. For these ultra "light" exotics, they like to exclude this extra weight to look more impressive.

Interesting, but EVO weighed a 205 GTI 1.9 a few years back and it was just 944KG which is only 35 KG heavier than the weight quoted in their 1987 road test, so not all older cars were under-estimated in the weight department too badly....

We can only hope the weight is close to what it should be. I'm so fed up with nearly every car Autocar weights being miles over the advertised weight. Jaguar are the worst offenders, they are nearly always 150-200KG over. That's two adults worth of difference..

This is probably down to how EVO and Autocar weigh the cars. 35kg is roughly what 11 gallons of fuel weighs explaining the EVO weight. Autocar's test 1.9 GTI weighed 1091kg so I'm guessing they include a full fuel tank and two 75kg passengers in their weight test?

There are cars that Autocar have weighed recently that have been lighter than claimed. Toyota's claim for the GT86 is 1240kg min/1275kg max yet it came in at 1235kg.

[dtrump]

Liking these more and more

Looks like a great car, but I think in the end the Cayman just tips it

[Fantuzzi]

Will be looking forward to seeing it against Lotus Elise(s) given at their unladen weight is 857 for the lightest elise Club racer, and the elise S which is very very similar in stats to the 4c, at 924 unladen.

Would like to see which chassis comes out best in an Elise s group test.

[MissChief]

Not sure if this has been posted or not:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aJ0W-Cq7wHI&fea...

[juansolo]

otolith said:

Monkey said:

And I suppose that statement kind of answers my suspicions that the 4C would have been better had it not used an expensive carbon tub and instead used the cash on an exotic motor with more cylinders. That car would just have been a Cayman wannabe, the 4C is something more direct, something new.

Exactly. And the people who think it should be more like a Cayman would still buy the Cayman.

I came from an Elise and went to a Cayman. My perfect car is somewhere in between. Perhaps if they put a manual in there (drove a PDK recently and decided dual clutch boxes aren't for me in sports cars), do something with those lights, and put a round steering wheel in it, that might be it. Everything else just seems to be the right idea. 1000kg weight, unassisted steering, emphasis on driving. I find myself liking the potential of that (with the tweaks).

[mrpenks]

Rennphile said:

Sounds like what you really want is an 8C...

What a numpty. When did you last see a rusty Alfa? I've run various Alfa models for the past 10 years and never seen any rust. Unlike my MX5, MGF and Saabs from 90s and 00s. Plus why the hell would you want a V8 in today's economic climate. Agree an NA small V6 would be nice but the market doesn't demand that.

[errek72]

Marvib said:

Any pictures of these with UK legal plates? Really hope the looks aren't spoilt by this.

Have a look at the start of this movie, should give an idea (ignore the guy in the movie, he is reciting the Alfa press sheet and reckings "the engine is essential for the driving experience" and more pearls of wisdom like that)

http://www.autoweek.nl/video/3638/rij-impressie-al...

(edited to add the movie link, oops )

Edited by errek72 on Sunday 22 September 12:01

[GTRene]

MissChief said:

Not sure if this has been posted or not:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aJ0W-Cq7wHI&fea...

I liked that, very interesting.

[trackdemon]

errek72 said:

Somehow, I can't shake the feeling that was the idea to begin with...

Does this remind of something :

Good find! More info?

[NJH]

trashbat said:

So it's a good car. I get it. However, I think it'd be much better if it had a great big V8. It'd have to be bigger and heavier but that's fine. They could use an engine from Ferrari, and borrow some other bits from Maserati

That would end up costing twice as much and bring nothing new or interesting to the market

[NJH]

MikeGoodwin said:

If a Cayman was in reach, why would you not have a new Cayman?

Ask the same question of any of the thousands of enthusiasts that have been buying old torsion bar 911s and generally pumping the prices on air cooled pork to more than double what they were a few years back.

[errek72]

trackdemon said:

errek72 said:

Somehow, I can't shake the feeling that was the idea to begin with...

Does this remind of something :



Good find! More info?

Thanks

Alfa Romeo Diva : 2006 Prototype by Fiat's Elasis technology center and Espera, which is the design school founded and run by Franco Sbarro (ex- Scuderia Filipinetti and allround evil automotive genius). Supposed to be built on an "innovative center tub" and mimicing the 33 Stradale.

[trackdemon]

errek72 said:

Thanks

Alfa Romeo Diva : 2006 Prototype by Fiat's Elasis technology center and Espera, which is the design school founded and run by Franco Sbarro (ex- Scuderia Filipinetti and allround evil automotive genius). Supposed to be built on an "innovative center tub" and mimicing the 33 Stradale.

It's really quite similar isn't it, you can see basic design cues (proportions, intakes) which have been carried right over...

[errek72]

trackdemon said:

errek72 said:

Thanks

Alfa Romeo Diva : 2006 Prototype by Fiat's Elasis technology center and Espera, which is the design school founded and run by Franco Sbarro (ex- Scuderia Filipinetti and allround evil automotive genius). Supposed to be built on an "innovative center tub" and mimicing the 33 Stradale.

It's really quite similar isn't it, you can see basic design cues (proportions, intakes) which have been carried right over...

I remembered it because of the headlights and the V6-discussion going on here. Looking it up I was surprised myself to see how similar it is. Looks to me like they just took this prototype and give it a Giulietta-styling once-over.

To further the "V6" debate, for those that think the current figures would be only be possible for a light (?) turbo four pot and could not be achieved by an N/A V6 because of weight issues : these are the performance figures for the Diva on its wikipedia page : "The car has top speed of 270 km/h (168 mph) and can accelerate from zero to 100 km/h (62 mph) in five seconds." So near-identical. No mention of weight though.

[trackdemon]

errek72 said:

I remembered it because of the headlights and the V6-discussion going on here. Looking it up I was surprised myself to see how similar it is. Looks to me like they just took this prototype and give it a Giulietta-styling once-over.

To further the "V6" debate, for those that think the current figures would be only be possible for a light (?) turbo four pot and could not be achieved by an N/A V6 because of weight issues : these are the performance figures for the Diva on its wikipedia page : "The car has top speed of 270 km/h (168 mph) and can accelerate from zero to 100 km/h (62 mph) in five seconds." So near-identical. No mention of weight though.

A V6 would probably be larger, heavier, more expensive & less fuel efficient (with higher CO2 figures to go with it). It would sound magnificent though Alfa have a decent history of 1750cc 4 pot twin cams, so it's well within their history

[errek72]

trackdemon said:

A V6 would probably be larger, heavier, more expensive & less fuel efficient (with higher CO2 figures to go with it). It would sound magnificent though Alfa have a decent history of 1750cc 4 pot twin cams, so it's well within their history

I agree, the 4 fits the concept but a V6 would sound so much better, see also Exige roadster. Allegedly, CO2 was the reason production of the busso V6 was stopped. I wonder if they'll come back on that decision now the ice caps are growing again