More on the R8 vs AM comparison
Discussion
I still have the R8 and I was in Yorkshire this weekend, so it got a thorough workout.
Gearbox: this is a new car with a couple of thousand miles on the clock (well, over three thousand now
), so it has the dual clutch box, instead of the single clutch box that R8s had until now. It is very good. Compared with SportShift and BMW SMG systems, its upshifts are quicker and amazingly smooth. I sometimes like the jerk on a full attack upshift in a single clutch automated manual, but more often I lift the accelerator a little to smooth the shift. No need with this box and it makes for quicker progress.
On the motorway, I used it in automatic. This worked much better than manual, because, unlike my V12, the throttle does absolutely nothing in top gear at 80 mph, because there is just no torque from the V8 at lower revs. In auto, a flex of the right foot causes a changedown of one or more gears, much like a normal autobox. On kickdown, it's a bit jerkier than a normal autobox.
On the country roads, I used it in manual sport mode. Then the box was great, delivering super-quick, fast changes and a great blip (just like SS and SMG) on downshifts. The sport button ruined the automatic mode, holding on too long to gears during acceleration and shifting down clumsily. The box can be clumsy around town too, particularly in sport mode. It shifts down the ratios automatically in both manual and auto modes as you slow to a stop and sometimes jerks as it does so.
Engine - it sounds great, not better than an AM V8 (it's very dfifferent from the V12 of course), but it's a lovely sound, particularly just behind your head (with the rear window open and hood up, you can hear the valvegear). People always complained that the BMW M V10 lacked low down torque. Compared with this V8, it was a monster. It's not an issue when you're having fun, because it revs freely and the gearbox gives super-quick smooth upshifts, so you can keep it in the torque band with ease. On the wider, sweeping roads, like the A170 leading to the top of Sutton Bank, I was able to go very quickly (not disclosing how quickly).
Handling - this is where it's very different, because of the four wheel drive. You feel the front wheels pulling the car round in the entry to a corner and the rears pushing it towards the exit. You can't use the throttle in the same way you can in a V12V to trim the corner, but you can keep a more constant speed through the corner. It's a different feeling. I'll always prefer the feel of a rear wheel drive car, but it's difficult not to be impressed by the capabilities of the 4wd system.
Suspension - more compliant around town. The speed bumps around North London are less of an obstacle. On the roads over the tops between Settle, Horton and Malham though, I found it a little bouncy in comparison with the V12V. There was one place where all four wheels left the ground and the car landed with quite a bump. I'm sure in the same place, my V12V just grounded out briefly. I think the V12V's springing works better for those roads.
Headlights: this new car has LED headlights. In dipped mode, they are a revelation, much better than an Aston's xenons, with brighter, longer coverage. On full beam, I wasn't so sure. They were good, but noticeably better.
Living with the car: I drove top-down for much of Saturday morning and afternoon and the heater was up to the job. There is no discernible wobble from the chassis. It feels solid.
The boot is tiny, It's deeper than a Vantage Roadster's boot, but much less wide and definitely takes less baggage. The lack of interior storage is irritating. The only place to put a coat if it won't fit in the boot is in the passenger's footwell.
Spending more time with the MMI and SatNav did not improve my opinion of it. It is clunky and difficult to navigate.The short route mode of the SatNav system produced far less interesting routes than the system on my V12V (Volvo, hard drive). The B&O stereo was good, but no better than the Premium Audio on my car. Bizarrely, there is no USB socket, so charging phones is impossible, unless you have an iPhone (with a lightning adapter if it's a 5) or a lighter socket adapter.
I mentioned the opening rear screen above. That is a great feature.
I really like the car. I wouldn't swap my Aston for it, but it's an impressive machine.
edited to correct a formatting issue.
Gearbox: this is a new car with a couple of thousand miles on the clock (well, over three thousand now
), so it has the dual clutch box, instead of the single clutch box that R8s had until now. It is very good. Compared with SportShift and BMW SMG systems, its upshifts are quicker and amazingly smooth. I sometimes like the jerk on a full attack upshift in a single clutch automated manual, but more often I lift the accelerator a little to smooth the shift. No need with this box and it makes for quicker progress.On the motorway, I used it in automatic. This worked much better than manual, because, unlike my V12, the throttle does absolutely nothing in top gear at 80 mph, because there is just no torque from the V8 at lower revs. In auto, a flex of the right foot causes a changedown of one or more gears, much like a normal autobox. On kickdown, it's a bit jerkier than a normal autobox.
On the country roads, I used it in manual sport mode. Then the box was great, delivering super-quick, fast changes and a great blip (just like SS and SMG) on downshifts. The sport button ruined the automatic mode, holding on too long to gears during acceleration and shifting down clumsily. The box can be clumsy around town too, particularly in sport mode. It shifts down the ratios automatically in both manual and auto modes as you slow to a stop and sometimes jerks as it does so.
Engine - it sounds great, not better than an AM V8 (it's very dfifferent from the V12 of course), but it's a lovely sound, particularly just behind your head (with the rear window open and hood up, you can hear the valvegear). People always complained that the BMW M V10 lacked low down torque. Compared with this V8, it was a monster. It's not an issue when you're having fun, because it revs freely and the gearbox gives super-quick smooth upshifts, so you can keep it in the torque band with ease. On the wider, sweeping roads, like the A170 leading to the top of Sutton Bank, I was able to go very quickly (not disclosing how quickly).
Handling - this is where it's very different, because of the four wheel drive. You feel the front wheels pulling the car round in the entry to a corner and the rears pushing it towards the exit. You can't use the throttle in the same way you can in a V12V to trim the corner, but you can keep a more constant speed through the corner. It's a different feeling. I'll always prefer the feel of a rear wheel drive car, but it's difficult not to be impressed by the capabilities of the 4wd system.
Suspension - more compliant around town. The speed bumps around North London are less of an obstacle. On the roads over the tops between Settle, Horton and Malham though, I found it a little bouncy in comparison with the V12V. There was one place where all four wheels left the ground and the car landed with quite a bump. I'm sure in the same place, my V12V just grounded out briefly. I think the V12V's springing works better for those roads.
Headlights: this new car has LED headlights. In dipped mode, they are a revelation, much better than an Aston's xenons, with brighter, longer coverage. On full beam, I wasn't so sure. They were good, but noticeably better.
Living with the car: I drove top-down for much of Saturday morning and afternoon and the heater was up to the job. There is no discernible wobble from the chassis. It feels solid.
The boot is tiny, It's deeper than a Vantage Roadster's boot, but much less wide and definitely takes less baggage. The lack of interior storage is irritating. The only place to put a coat if it won't fit in the boot is in the passenger's footwell.
Spending more time with the MMI and SatNav did not improve my opinion of it. It is clunky and difficult to navigate.The short route mode of the SatNav system produced far less interesting routes than the system on my V12V (Volvo, hard drive). The B&O stereo was good, but no better than the Premium Audio on my car. Bizarrely, there is no USB socket, so charging phones is impossible, unless you have an iPhone (with a lightning adapter if it's a 5) or a lighter socket adapter.
I mentioned the opening rear screen above. That is a great feature.
I really like the car. I wouldn't swap my Aston for it, but it's an impressive machine.
edited to correct a formatting issue.
Edited by Zod on Monday 18th November 23:49
Thx for the comparison.
Have a RS5 as daily driver, which has the same engine/transmission as "your" R8, and have the same experience: not so much torque in lower revs, but great fun (and speed) wen revving to 8250 rpm! :-)
Drive it in Manual most of the time, since S-Auto is too nervous and D-Auto is too lazy, but the S-tronic is a great transmission, and would suit the new Vanquish better than the "classic" auto-box that is now fitted.
The exhaust blibs when downshifting or upshifting are really nice, specailly in Dynamic/Sport mode (and with the roof down :-))
Of course it can never compete with the DBS/V12, which is indeed a great machine with torque at any moment, and where the manual gearbox is offering the best driving experience imho.
Have a RS5 as daily driver, which has the same engine/transmission as "your" R8, and have the same experience: not so much torque in lower revs, but great fun (and speed) wen revving to 8250 rpm! :-)
Drive it in Manual most of the time, since S-Auto is too nervous and D-Auto is too lazy, but the S-tronic is a great transmission, and would suit the new Vanquish better than the "classic" auto-box that is now fitted.
The exhaust blibs when downshifting or upshifting are really nice, specailly in Dynamic/Sport mode (and with the roof down :-))
Of course it can never compete with the DBS/V12, which is indeed a great machine with torque at any moment, and where the manual gearbox is offering the best driving experience imho.
V8 Animal said:
Enjoying reading your review.
Ive always loved the R8 Spyder but what I have read it's like driving a normal Audi and has no sound to it.
However in a years time im on the look out for a change maybe, and the Gallardo is on the top of the list even though they are really the same car.
Traded in my Gallardo 3 weeks ago for an R8 ( both hard tops ).Ive always loved the R8 Spyder but what I have read it's like driving a normal Audi and has no sound to it.
However in a years time im on the look out for a change maybe, and the Gallardo is on the top of the list even though they are really the same car.
Can't really agree with your comment " even though they are really the same car ." They really are very different, ride/handling/noise etc.
My Gallardo was fitted with a switchable Larini sport exhaust , which when on loud belched flames at night. It really was a " totally balls out " car. The R8 is very civilised by comparison.
Servicing costs for the R8 are half those for the Lamborghini.
The only thing that is the same is the Sat Nav ( still rubbish ! ).
runner911 said:
Traded in my Gallardo 3 weeks ago for an R8 ( both hard tops ).
Can't really agree with your comment " even though they are really the same car ." They really are very different, ride/handling/noise etc.
My Gallardo was fitted with a switchable Larini sport exhaust , which when on loud belched flames at night. It really was a " totally balls out " car. The R8 is very civilised by comparison.
Servicing costs for the R8 are half those for the Lamborghini.
The only thing that is the same is the Sat Nav ( still rubbish ! ).
agree,the gallardo is so much more of an event ,much harder riding and a bit sharper in the bends,the r8 is far more useable though.Can't really agree with your comment " even though they are really the same car ." They really are very different, ride/handling/noise etc.
My Gallardo was fitted with a switchable Larini sport exhaust , which when on loud belched flames at night. It really was a " totally balls out " car. The R8 is very civilised by comparison.
Servicing costs for the R8 are half those for the Lamborghini.
The only thing that is the same is the Sat Nav ( still rubbish ! ).
have to say I do miss the 4wd ,especially in this weather ,the dbs stays locked up whereas I would be out in the gallardo or r8.
Zod said:
Not only me then. I never thought I'd find a worse system than the Aston one!
What is up with it? The one in my S3 bugs me because you can't do full postcode searches but other than that it's pretty good. Apparently the new Audi units have full postcode search too so I don't know how it can be worse than the Aston one!Also on the lack of USB point. Did you check the glovebox? If it has AMI they give you an iPod lead and a USB lead.
George29 said:
Zod said:
Not only me then. I never thought I'd find a worse system than the Aston one!
What is up with it? The one in my S3 bugs me because you can't do full postcode searches but other than that it's pretty good. Apparently the new Audi units have full postcode search too so I don't know how it can be worse than the Aston one!Also on the lack of USB point. Did you check the glovebox? If it has AMI they give you an iPod lead and a USB lead.
I found the iPod lead in one of the tiny compartments in the rear bulkhead, but no USB point.
bentley01 said:
Always thought the satnav in the various BMW's I have owned have been the least user friendly. The Aston one is not too bad in comparison.
Oddly, I find the BMW system, particularly the most up-to-date one the most user-friendly by some margin. Must be a personal thing.Zod said:
It doesn't have full postcode search, just first digit (unlike my car with the Volvo system). The display is half-covered by big banners telling you the next three turns. It keeps telling you to "in two miles, prepare to keep right onto the M1" - what a useless direction! In dynamic mode, it doesn't offer you a diversion to accept or reject, but decides you should take it (you can ignore it, of course). The display itself looks only barely more modern than the Volvo system. Compared with the system in our X5, it looks utterly archaic.
I found the iPod lead in one of the tiny compartments in the rear bulkhead, but no USB point.
That's the old system. The new one is much better. The traffic info is very good to be honest, much better than the Aston one. The new one has full postcode search too. Odd they didn't fit it into the R8 when they updated it and fitted the S-tronic gearbox. I found the iPod lead in one of the tiny compartments in the rear bulkhead, but no USB point.
You can unplug the iPod cable and fit a USB one usually. Perhaps they didn't leave the cable in the car?
George29 said:
Zod said:
It doesn't have full postcode search, just first digit (unlike my car with the Volvo system). The display is half-covered by big banners telling you the next three turns. It keeps telling you to "in two miles, prepare to keep right onto the M1" - what a useless direction! In dynamic mode, it doesn't offer you a diversion to accept or reject, but decides you should take it (you can ignore it, of course). The display itself looks only barely more modern than the Volvo system. Compared with the system in our X5, it looks utterly archaic.
I found the iPod lead in one of the tiny compartments in the rear bulkhead, but no USB point.
That's the old system. The new one is much better. The traffic info is very good to be honest, much better than the Aston one. The new one has full postcode search too. Odd they didn't fit it into the R8 when they updated it and fitted the S-tronic gearbox. I found the iPod lead in one of the tiny compartments in the rear bulkhead, but no USB point.
You can unplug the iPod cable and fit a USB one usually. Perhaps they didn't leave the cable in the car?
George29 said:
Zod said:
Oddly, I find the BMW system, particularly the most up-to-date one the most user-friendly by some margin. Must be a personal thing.
Must be, I couldn't stand the iDrive thing! Zod, you need to try the V10 version, while it certainly hasn't got the class and quality interior of your V12 Vantage ( which I love by the way) it has awesome traction (4WD) and if you choose a Spyder and keep the roof up but lower the rear window the V10 is deafening as it screams to 8,500 rpm. It feels faster (and is according to the mags) as well, but it is the high revving engine that makes the car, just as the V12 slams into the rev limiter at 7k the V10 sounds like a howling demon and keeps going. It also has adaptive dampers similar to the new V12S, along with an automated manual option.
If I wanted a coupe I think I'd buy a used V12V but the Spyder is half the price of a V12 Roadster and every bit as good
If I wanted a coupe I think I'd buy a used V12V but the Spyder is half the price of a V12 Roadster and every bit as good
Porkernut said:
Zod, you need to try the V10 version, while it certainly hasn't got the class and quality interior of your V12 Vantage ( which I love by the way) it has awesome traction (4WD) and if you choose a Spyder and keep the roof up but lower the rear window the V10 is deafening as it screams to 8,500 rpm. It feels faster (and is according to the mags) as well, but it is the high revving engine that makes the car, just as the V12 slams into the rev limiter at 7k the V10 sounds like a howling demon and keeps going. It also has adaptive dampers similar to the new V12S, along with an automated manual option.
If I wanted a coupe I think I'd buy a used V12V but the Spyder is half the price of a V12 Roadster and every bit as good
Funnily enough, I was just thinking last night how much I'd like to try the V10 version.If I wanted a coupe I think I'd buy a used V12V but the Spyder is half the price of a V12 Roadster and every bit as good
Slightly off topic.....R8 vs motorised bicycles.
http://www.youtube.com/watch_popup?v=Y2HKBQMQmbw#t...
http://www.youtube.com/watch_popup?v=Y2HKBQMQmbw#t...
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