Fitting an outside tap
Discussion
After we had some work done here at Cjelli. Towers, we inadvertently lost our outside tap in the back garden.
Mrs Cjelli has decided we need one again, so I'm doing my due diligence with regards to diying it.
We seem to be in quite a good position in terms of where everything is.
The kitchen sink is against the wall that faces the garden. There is a 4 inch (ish) hole in the wall down there where I could run a pipe. Under the sink, we have a hot water appliance feed (currently unused) and a cold water appliance feed (with a y-connector that feeds washer and dishwasher).
Could I just take one of the appliances off cold water and swap onto the hot, freeing up a cold feed to run a hose to a mounting plate over the hole with a tap attached?
Had a quick look at kits in homebase this afternoon. The kits came with a screw on clamp thing that seems to pierce the pipe creating a joint in the existing pipe. These fill me with dread. Also read somewhere that pressure is a bit pap through them.
I would have bought one, as it seemed to contain what I need, except for one thing.
The check valve appeared to be built into the clamp joint, not the tap. As I wouldn't be using the joint, there would be no valve in the system. At extra cost, there was a separate tap with check valve built in, but I wondered if having the valve away from the feed causes problems with regards hygiene.
A bit rambling, but anyone got any advice?
Mrs Cjelli has decided we need one again, so I'm doing my due diligence with regards to diying it.
We seem to be in quite a good position in terms of where everything is.
The kitchen sink is against the wall that faces the garden. There is a 4 inch (ish) hole in the wall down there where I could run a pipe. Under the sink, we have a hot water appliance feed (currently unused) and a cold water appliance feed (with a y-connector that feeds washer and dishwasher).
Could I just take one of the appliances off cold water and swap onto the hot, freeing up a cold feed to run a hose to a mounting plate over the hole with a tap attached?
Had a quick look at kits in homebase this afternoon. The kits came with a screw on clamp thing that seems to pierce the pipe creating a joint in the existing pipe. These fill me with dread. Also read somewhere that pressure is a bit pap through them.
I would have bought one, as it seemed to contain what I need, except for one thing.
The check valve appeared to be built into the clamp joint, not the tap. As I wouldn't be using the joint, there would be no valve in the system. At extra cost, there was a separate tap with check valve built in, but I wondered if having the valve away from the feed causes problems with regards hygiene.
A bit rambling, but anyone got any advice?
vladcjelli said:
Had a quick look at kits in homebase this afternoon. The kits came with a screw on clamp thing that seems to pierce the pipe creating a joint in the existing pipe. These fill me with dread. Also read somewhere that pressure is a bit pap through them.
I have one of those. Pierce the cold pipe, then run a hose from the clamp through a small hole drilled in the wall.I've had it for ten to fifteen years, no problem and pressure unaffected.
mybrainhurts said:
vladcjelli said:
Had a quick look at kits in homebase this afternoon. The kits came with a screw on clamp thing that seems to pierce the pipe creating a joint in the existing pipe. These fill me with dread. Also read somewhere that pressure is a bit pap through them.
I have one of those. Pierce the cold pipe, then run a hose from the clamp through a small hole drilled in the wall.I've had it for ten to fifteen years, no problem and pressure unaffected.
greygoose said:
I had one of the Homebase kits at my old house and it was fine, I think it had a valve on it so that you could drain the pipe/tap in winter to stop it freezing. Seems a bit of a waste to use hot water on watering the plants etc (and they might not like it!).
Ha! Not going to put the outside tap on the hot, rather taking one of the appliances off cold and swapping it to the hot one.Speaking of which, would the dishwasher or the washing machine be best put on the hot feed? Which one uses hot water first?
vladcjelli said:
Ha! Not going to put the outside tap on the hot,
Why not have one of each? Much nicer for washing the car. It's on my "to do" list for this summer.Don't forget you're meant to fit a non-return valve as well, and having an stop tap inside the house makes a lot of sense.
LooneyTunes said:
vladcjelli said:
Ha! Not going to put the outside tap on the hot,
Why not have one of each? Much nicer for washing the car. It's on my "to do" list for this summer.Don't forget you're meant to fit a non-return valve as well, and having an stop tap inside the house makes a lot of sense.
In the kits, the valve is on the clamp/piercing joint. I don't want to fit one of these, as I already have a spare appliance feed. So I found a tap that has the valve built in, but am worried I'm doing it wrong from the hygiene point of view of having water sitting in the hose, being drawn back through the inside tap.
Am I worrying unnecessarily?
If there's a valve on the tap, how can water or air get in to allow water to flow into the rest of the system? OK, there could be a little mixing but that's not likely. You can buy check valves at the usual DIY stores, so you could fit a plain tap and have a check valve in the house. Or a check valve in the pipe AND one on the tap if you are really obsessive about it!
I have a tap with a valve fitted and it doesn't bother me at all! As others have said, put an service valve (that you work with a screwdriver)in the house - though you will probably never use it (I don't use mine!) and all will be well.
I have a tap with a valve fitted and it doesn't bother me at all! As others have said, put an service valve (that you work with a screwdriver)in the house - though you will probably never use it (I don't use mine!) and all will be well.
dbfan said:
If there's a valve on the tap, how can water or air get in to allow water to flow into the rest of the system? OK, there could be a little mixing but that's not likely. You can buy check valves at the usual DIY stores, so you could fit a plain tap and have a check valve in the house. Or a check valve in the pipe AND one on the tap if you are really obsessive about it!
I have a tap with a valve fitted and it doesn't bother me at all! As others have said, put an service valve (that you work with a screwdriver)in the house - though you will probably never use it (I don't use mine!) and all will be well.
Fair enough, wasn't sure which water it was protecting me from. In hindsight I guess it's residual water from hosepipes and the like, so the tap valve would be fine.I have a tap with a valve fitted and it doesn't bother me at all! As others have said, put an service valve (that you work with a screwdriver)in the house - though you will probably never use it (I don't use mine!) and all will be well.
Cheers all!
Those self cutting taps are awful. The tend to leak if they get knocked too.
I would replace the spare washing machine tap with a 15mm stop tap and pipe the tap up in rigid copper and compression fittings from there.
If you've no tools, all you will need is a junior hacksaw and two adjustable spanners.
You'll get a poor flow rate doing it with flexible hoses etc.
Also, I'm pretty sure a double check valve built into the tap doesn't satisfy building regs, a DCV should be fitted to the pipework.
But from a normal point of view, it'll be fine.
I choose not to fit the DCV taps, because when winter comes and you isolate the tap and leave it open, not all of the water drains out through the tap because the DCV closes when the pressure gets too low. Worth considering if your area is liable to frost.
I would replace the spare washing machine tap with a 15mm stop tap and pipe the tap up in rigid copper and compression fittings from there.
If you've no tools, all you will need is a junior hacksaw and two adjustable spanners.
You'll get a poor flow rate doing it with flexible hoses etc.
Also, I'm pretty sure a double check valve built into the tap doesn't satisfy building regs, a DCV should be fitted to the pipework.
But from a normal point of view, it'll be fine.
I choose not to fit the DCV taps, because when winter comes and you isolate the tap and leave it open, not all of the water drains out through the tap because the DCV closes when the pressure gets too low. Worth considering if your area is liable to frost.
vladcjelli said:
Ha! Not going to put the outside tap on the hot, rather taking one of the appliances off cold and swapping it to the hot one.
Speaking of which, would the dishwasher or the washing machine be best put on the hot feed? Which one uses hot water first?
Dont do this!Speaking of which, would the dishwasher or the washing machine be best put on the hot feed? Which one uses hot water first?
The length of a dishwasher cycle would be affected by a having hot water supply. The cycle would be shortened as the water coming into the appliance would already be at or near the wash cycle temperature. The result would be a poor wash.
A washing machine needs a cold supply as most fabrics require a lower temperature than your domestic hot water supply. Your good lady would not want her delicates or coloureds washed in hot water. It is better to let the washing machine determine the temperature, based upon the program selected. Not only this, but the rinses will also be with hot water just to make sure your clothes are well and truly buggered!
Oldred_V8S said:
vladcjelli said:
Ha! Not going to put the outside tap on the hot, rather taking one of the appliances off cold and swapping it to the hot one.
Speaking of which, would the dishwasher or the washing machine be best put on the hot feed? Which one uses hot water first?
Dont do this!Speaking of which, would the dishwasher or the washing machine be best put on the hot feed? Which one uses hot water first?
The length of a dishwasher cycle would be affected by a having hot water supply. The cycle would be shortened as the water coming into the appliance would already be at or near the wash cycle temperature. The result would be a poor wash.
A washing machine needs a cold supply as most fabrics require a lower temperature than your domestic hot water supply. Your good lady would not want her delicates or coloureds washed in hot water. It is better to let the washing machine determine the temperature, based upon the program selected. Not only this, but the rinses will also be with hot water just to make sure your clothes are well and truly buggered!
vladcjelli said:
And just dug out the manual for the dishwasher, and it says that you can connect to either hot or cold, provided the water isn't above 60degC.
Does the above advice still stand?
I would avoid it. Does the above advice still stand?
Most dishwashers operate in the 45-70 degrees band, any supply that has a temperature above that of the cold supply will shorten the wash cycle. The machine would get to the wash cycle and say right i've reached temperature, time to empty out the water and move onto the rinse cycle.
I've never known a dishwasher installed on a hot supply.
I am having some work done on my garden this year. They laid the grass down and went to water it. That is when I heard the waterfall coming into my carpeted basement. We had to pull up the carpet in the back and have it hung out to dry. The gardener, this morning, went to use the tap at the front of my house and that is when I heard a second waterfall. The 2 floods have met in my basement and all the carpet is up.
The moral of this story is that your should have isolation taps installed. But, more importantly f
king use them. I think I will be able to rescue the carpet and have not lost too many possessions. It is just luck that I was leaving the house late for a meeting today. Otherwise, I would have a swimming pool down there.
The moral of this story is that your should have isolation taps installed. But, more importantly f
king use them. I think I will be able to rescue the carpet and have not lost too many possessions. It is just luck that I was leaving the house late for a meeting today. Otherwise, I would have a swimming pool down there.LooneyTunes said:
vladcjelli said:
Ha! Not going to put the outside tap on the hot,
Why not have one of each? Much nicer for washing the car. It's on my "to do" list for this summer.The tap I bought had a card saying that it met all water authority regs - I wouldn't have bought it otherwise! Mind you, that doesn't mean the regs haven't changed since then (about eight or ten years ago). I have one of those foam "winter kits" on the outside tap and, when I remember, also have a hessian bag wrapped around that for the winter months. The tap has never frozen or caused problems - even in the hardest of frosts.
I've just redone my kitchen and sorted the pipes out - two plumbers had worked on it (new kitchen then new sink) and I had also cobbled the outside tap in on their web of pipes. I put a stop tap on the incoming (mains) pipe and service valves on the sinks and outside tap pipes. Admittedly, the stop tap isn't really necessary, but there was a convenient joint on the old 1/2" pipe and it meant I could have the mains on while I sorted the rest of the pipework!
Our washing machine is cold-only feed (it isn't in the kitchen) and I only use it at 30deg (or cold water for the dog's towels), so didn't use the hot feed that the old machine had. I suspect most new machines are the same - energy efficiency being the buzz-word now!
Is the original cold water tap/valve a compression fitting to the pipe? If it is, it should be dead easy to fit a tee piece and a second tap/service valve onto the tee (with compression fitting connectors). You might even get away without having to take the original nut and ring off!
I've just redone my kitchen and sorted the pipes out - two plumbers had worked on it (new kitchen then new sink) and I had also cobbled the outside tap in on their web of pipes. I put a stop tap on the incoming (mains) pipe and service valves on the sinks and outside tap pipes. Admittedly, the stop tap isn't really necessary, but there was a convenient joint on the old 1/2" pipe and it meant I could have the mains on while I sorted the rest of the pipework!
Our washing machine is cold-only feed (it isn't in the kitchen) and I only use it at 30deg (or cold water for the dog's towels), so didn't use the hot feed that the old machine had. I suspect most new machines are the same - energy efficiency being the buzz-word now!
Is the original cold water tap/valve a compression fitting to the pipe? If it is, it should be dead easy to fit a tee piece and a second tap/service valve onto the tee (with compression fitting connectors). You might even get away without having to take the original nut and ring off!
Gassing Station | Homes, Gardens and DIY | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff