How does this scam work?
Discussion
I am selling a Cerbera and somebody contacted me asking for more details. I assumed it was a scam as they wanted to buy the car and export it to cyprus....yes - here we go. I have had a few emails back and fourth to see where it goes - then had one asking for the V5 so it can be insured/imported. This is where I thought OK, I'm not sending V5 copies to people who email me out the blue. So I asked for id and a deposit. The person has emailed back saying they are happy to transfer £500 to me as a deposit if I send my bank details and they could they have a copy of the v5 for the insurance.
But, it sounds too dodgy to me still so I don't think I will be sending my bank details. But is sending a copy of the v5 an issue - how about if I send a scan in b&w with a watermarked "COPY" printed clearly across it?
Looking at this from the other side you do need a copy of a v5 to insure a car in foreign countries and when purchasing cars I have asked people in the past to send me a copy of the v5 to prove they own the car.
I know the standard answer from people will be it is a scam run a mile but about 4 years ago I sold a very nice black patrol 4x4 on ebay. In the closing 10 seconds somebody who I had not spoken to or had not bid before outbid everyone and the auction closed at nearly £13,000. By the next day I had no contact and I was about to offer it to the second place bidder when I had a phone call. It was very crackly and the person spoke very little English. They were trying to arrange when they could collect the car but I was already suspicious as they were clearly African and not in the UK. I decided to play along and it started sounding like the biggest scam ever - they even did the whole "I will send somebody to collect and ship the car back" line so I played along with that and guess what. Two days later I was shocked to see three African chaps who spoke little/no English meet me in my local Barclays - paid nearly £13,000 cash into my bank and took the car. Everyone I spoke to about that sale told me it was a scam - I even said it was a scam and that is why I arranged to meet the buyers in my local Barclays and refused to give them my home address or any bank details. But it was legit - turns out the buyer was a game reserve owner and wanted something smarter than the land rovers his workers use to drive around in. Due to import tax big 4x4s are about half of the price in England than Africa so they just buy a few, put them in a container and ship them home apparently.
But, it sounds too dodgy to me still so I don't think I will be sending my bank details. But is sending a copy of the v5 an issue - how about if I send a scan in b&w with a watermarked "COPY" printed clearly across it?
Looking at this from the other side you do need a copy of a v5 to insure a car in foreign countries and when purchasing cars I have asked people in the past to send me a copy of the v5 to prove they own the car.
I know the standard answer from people will be it is a scam run a mile but about 4 years ago I sold a very nice black patrol 4x4 on ebay. In the closing 10 seconds somebody who I had not spoken to or had not bid before outbid everyone and the auction closed at nearly £13,000. By the next day I had no contact and I was about to offer it to the second place bidder when I had a phone call. It was very crackly and the person spoke very little English. They were trying to arrange when they could collect the car but I was already suspicious as they were clearly African and not in the UK. I decided to play along and it started sounding like the biggest scam ever - they even did the whole "I will send somebody to collect and ship the car back" line so I played along with that and guess what. Two days later I was shocked to see three African chaps who spoke little/no English meet me in my local Barclays - paid nearly £13,000 cash into my bank and took the car. Everyone I spoke to about that sale told me it was a scam - I even said it was a scam and that is why I arranged to meet the buyers in my local Barclays and refused to give them my home address or any bank details. But it was legit - turns out the buyer was a game reserve owner and wanted something smarter than the land rovers his workers use to drive around in. Due to import tax big 4x4s are about half of the price in England than Africa so they just buy a few, put them in a container and ship them home apparently.
This has to be a scam. I wouldn't send any details of the V5.
You may need the V5 to insure the car on the road but I doubt you need it to import it.
I imagine the transfer will be pulled back as soon as its sent (if indeed it is) and of course they then have your bank details I guess the V5 will be used to scam some other poor suspecting purchaser.
You may need the V5 to insure the car on the road but I doubt you need it to import it.
I imagine the transfer will be pulled back as soon as its sent (if indeed it is) and of course they then have your bank details I guess the V5 will be used to scam some other poor suspecting purchaser.
Appropriate thread for me
I am in the process of selling a car to a guy in Germany.
He has paid a small deposit by bank transfer to my account, I am removing the "private plate" and returning it to the old reg. He is then expecting the V5 or a copy of it, so that he can insure it in Germany for when he crosses the North Sea. He's planning on driving it back. Where's the problem, if he hasn't got the V5 or at least a scan of it he cannot insure it surely. When I bought it, I needed the reg no to insure it over here.
Or am I being niaive?
I am in the process of selling a car to a guy in Germany.
He has paid a small deposit by bank transfer to my account, I am removing the "private plate" and returning it to the old reg. He is then expecting the V5 or a copy of it, so that he can insure it in Germany for when he crosses the North Sea. He's planning on driving it back. Where's the problem, if he hasn't got the V5 or at least a scan of it he cannot insure it surely. When I bought it, I needed the reg no to insure it over here.
Or am I being niaive?
Skyedriver said:
Appropriate thread for me
I am in the process of selling a car to a guy in Germany.
He has paid a small deposit by bank transfer to my account, I am removing the "private plate" and returning it to the old reg. He is then expecting the V5 or a copy of it, so that he can insure it in Germany for when he crosses the North Sea. He's planning on driving it back. Where's the problem, if he hasn't got the V5 or at least a scan of it he cannot insure it surely. When I bought it, I needed the reg no to insure it over here.
Or am I being niaive?
When I bought my first car tax free in Germany i didn't need the V5 to insure it. we had a AXA office in camp. When insured a 2nd hand car i only showed them it had been mot'd in uk then once i had my V5 and German BFG (German test for cars an MOT in simple terms) went back in and updated the details. This was 6 years ago so may have changed but doubt very much. I am in the process of selling a car to a guy in Germany.
He has paid a small deposit by bank transfer to my account, I am removing the "private plate" and returning it to the old reg. He is then expecting the V5 or a copy of it, so that he can insure it in Germany for when he crosses the North Sea. He's planning on driving it back. Where's the problem, if he hasn't got the V5 or at least a scan of it he cannot insure it surely. When I bought it, I needed the reg no to insure it over here.
Or am I being niaive?
AL
Two things:
Ask them which bits of the V5 they need for "insurance". If they just want the serial number and issue date, that's the same as for a HPI check anyway, so see no harm giving that. And the document reference number is good for checking up on MOTs.
V5 doesn't prove ownership in any case.
Ask them which bits of the V5 they need for "insurance". If they just want the serial number and issue date, that's the same as for a HPI check anyway, so see no harm giving that. And the document reference number is good for checking up on MOTs.
V5 doesn't prove ownership in any case.
Thanks
was thinking a scan of the doc would suffice, or just a note with the new reg, then he hasn't got the actual paper copy.
Would you prefer cash (my normal preference for UK sales) or a Bank Transfer?
He's done a transfer for the deposit but £250 becomes £242 for some reason - exchange rate or a bank fee possibly.
He's suggested he'll bring £GB
but a) don't want to wander about with a few grand in a carrier bag and secondly I would need to check the cash out for legitimacy somewhere a it's coming from abroad. Sorry I don't sound like a very trusting soul.
was thinking a scan of the doc would suffice, or just a note with the new reg, then he hasn't got the actual paper copy.
Would you prefer cash (my normal preference for UK sales) or a Bank Transfer?
He's done a transfer for the deposit but £250 becomes £242 for some reason - exchange rate or a bank fee possibly.
He's suggested he'll bring £GB
but a) don't want to wander about with a few grand in a carrier bag and secondly I would need to check the cash out for legitimacy somewhere a it's coming from abroad. Sorry I don't sound like a very trusting soul.
Skyedriver said:
Thanks
was thinking a scan of the doc would suffice, or just a note with the new reg, then he hasn't got the actual paper copy.
Would you prefer cash (my normal preference for UK sales) or a Bank Transfer?
He's done a transfer for the deposit but £250 becomes £242 for some reason - exchange rate or a bank fee possibly.
He's suggested he'll bring £GB
but a) don't want to wander about with a few grand in a carrier bag and secondly I would need to check the cash out for legitimacy somewhere a it's coming from abroad. Sorry I don't sound like a very trusting soul.
A scan of the doc should be fine but only the details of the car, and not personal details like your home address.was thinking a scan of the doc would suffice, or just a note with the new reg, then he hasn't got the actual paper copy.
Would you prefer cash (my normal preference for UK sales) or a Bank Transfer?
He's done a transfer for the deposit but £250 becomes £242 for some reason - exchange rate or a bank fee possibly.
He's suggested he'll bring £GB
but a) don't want to wander about with a few grand in a carrier bag and secondly I would need to check the cash out for legitimacy somewhere a it's coming from abroad. Sorry I don't sound like a very trusting soul.
Do the deal in cash at your local bank. Arrange a date and time and meet inside the bank, its all on camera. This way he can pay cash for your car, he simply hands it over, cashier counts it thru an automated machine, which also checks for any forgeries.
Once this is done and money is now in your account, hand over the v5 and the keys and shake hands, deals done.
i have over the years completed quite a few deals for 2nd hand cars this way, some involving cash sums up to 15k, so its a really safe way to complete a purchase/sale.
Heres one scam my sister was nearly the victim of only last week. Her car was for sale on a website, she received a call asking about it and the guy agreed to pay for it via Paypal. He would arrange for a company to collect the car for him when the money had transfered. The car was only £800 but she received an email allegedly from Paypal saying there had been £1300 paid into her account. There then followed an email from the guy to say that he had paid too much into the paypal account and she needed to pay £500 to the company that were going to collect the car.
She then returned an email saying he was going to be investigated for fraud. She works for the Police and her other half is CID.
About time someone caught these type of people.
She then returned an email saying he was going to be investigated for fraud. She works for the Police and her other half is CID.
About time someone caught these type of people.
TJC46 said:
A scan of the doc should be fine but only the details of the car, and not personal details like your home address.
Do the deal in cash at your local bank. Arrange a date and time and meet inside the bank, its all on camera. This way he can pay cash for your car, he simply hands it over, cashier counts it thru an automated machine, which also checks for any forgeries.
Once this is done and money is now in your account, hand over the v5 and the keys and shake hands, deals done.
i have over the years completed quite a few deals for 2nd hand cars this way, some involving cash sums up to 15k, so its a really safe way to complete a purchase/sale.
thanksDo the deal in cash at your local bank. Arrange a date and time and meet inside the bank, its all on camera. This way he can pay cash for your car, he simply hands it over, cashier counts it thru an automated machine, which also checks for any forgeries.
Once this is done and money is now in your account, hand over the v5 and the keys and shake hands, deals done.
i have over the years completed quite a few deals for 2nd hand cars this way, some involving cash sums up to 15k, so its a really safe way to complete a purchase/sale.
Only concern is I will probably meet him at the airport, no idea if the banks (nearest 3 mile away) will be open.
Otherwise thats the route I'll take
Last year i purchased my T350 from a well known dealer. For the drive home to Germany I needed an insurance for the car on original plates from ADAC. It is valid for 30 days. For that I needed the V5. Also to get quotes from insurance companies i needed the V5. Plus the implications with TUEV made the V5 necessary. The dealership sent me the V5 in colour and without watermark. IIRC I had placed a deposit at that time.
These weird sales happen.
I sold an XJS cab on eBay, the highest bidder was Italian.
He phoned me the next day, couldn't speak English so put his Nigerian friend on the phone.
He kept asking for my bank details which I declined to give.
I insisted on a PayPal transfer but he didn't have PayPal.
Long story short, he got PayPal for the transaction, paid, I transferred money to bank, let it clear and spoke to a Barclays guy who assured me that it couldn't be clawed back.
A few weeks later the most enormous transporter picked it up and it went to Italy.
Upshot was that it was legit, (you would have never thought so talking to the Nigerian guy) and he gave me the most amazing feedback.
As for sending a copy of the V5, maybe send details but not the copy itself.
Or, ask for the official address that he needs to produce the copy for and send it there direct.
I sold an XJS cab on eBay, the highest bidder was Italian.
He phoned me the next day, couldn't speak English so put his Nigerian friend on the phone.
He kept asking for my bank details which I declined to give.
I insisted on a PayPal transfer but he didn't have PayPal.
Long story short, he got PayPal for the transaction, paid, I transferred money to bank, let it clear and spoke to a Barclays guy who assured me that it couldn't be clawed back.
A few weeks later the most enormous transporter picked it up and it went to Italy.
Upshot was that it was legit, (you would have never thought so talking to the Nigerian guy) and he gave me the most amazing feedback.
As for sending a copy of the V5, maybe send details but not the copy itself.
Or, ask for the official address that he needs to produce the copy for and send it there direct.
It's quite common for EU buyers to request a copy of the V5 before purchase but actually they don't need all of it.
Typical is insurers who will want the exact model code of the vehicle. I couldn't insure the Esprit V8 without quoting the model code "MLS1901CH021" as found on the reg document. Similarly they may need the CO2 data for taxation etc...
Ask them what data they need from the V5.
Typical is insurers who will want the exact model code of the vehicle. I couldn't insure the Esprit V8 without quoting the model code "MLS1901CH021" as found on the reg document. Similarly they may need the CO2 data for taxation etc...
Ask them what data they need from the V5.
Wouldn't entertain selling to non UK resident. I have always sold my cars fairly quickly to UK nationals/residents. If they can't/won't come and view the car then I cease responding to contact there and then. Only accept transfer to my bank account in person or readies in wrapped bank bundles with the withdrawal receipt from their bank. Always ask to see some ID and dont conduct the viewing when I am alone if in any doubt about the potential buyer. I'm generally prettying good at reading people.
What's the harm in sending a scan of the V5? Blank out your address if you must, but really, all he will have is a scan of a V5. No car, no receipt, nothing. The V5 doesn't even prove ownership - read the front page.
There are a lot of scams, so keep your wits about you. Buying a car over a long distance is an exercise in trust - for the buyer. As the seller, you hold all of the cards, so help your customer out or just tell them it's already sold. Before traveling far or sending money, you'd want to see the V5 with the seller's name on it, right? I know I always do.
Payment via bank transfer is not risky. You tell the buyer your bank details, he wires money, you get money. Easy, safe, quick. At no point will any bank allow them to do anything other than send you money. PayPal will suck one of you dry with their fees. Actually, some banks aren't much better, for the buyer.
If the buyer is paying upon collection, going to a bank is the way to go. Let the buyer maintain responsibility for the cash until it's in the clerk's hands, then give him a receipt and the V5.
Good luck with the sale - it sounds like a typical transaction with an overseas buyer. There's a lot of money outside the UK and a strong interest in TVR's.
There are a lot of scams, so keep your wits about you. Buying a car over a long distance is an exercise in trust - for the buyer. As the seller, you hold all of the cards, so help your customer out or just tell them it's already sold. Before traveling far or sending money, you'd want to see the V5 with the seller's name on it, right? I know I always do.
Payment via bank transfer is not risky. You tell the buyer your bank details, he wires money, you get money. Easy, safe, quick. At no point will any bank allow them to do anything other than send you money. PayPal will suck one of you dry with their fees. Actually, some banks aren't much better, for the buyer.
If the buyer is paying upon collection, going to a bank is the way to go. Let the buyer maintain responsibility for the cash until it's in the clerk's hands, then give him a receipt and the V5.
Good luck with the sale - it sounds like a typical transaction with an overseas buyer. There's a lot of money outside the UK and a strong interest in TVR's.
Why not call an insurance company in Cyprus to find out firstly if that is standard practice and secondly if it is, what you can do to protect yourself if it really is a scam at the end of the day.
Contact details on below page,
http://www.royalcrowninsurance.eu/nqcontent.cfm?a_...
Contact details on below page,
http://www.royalcrowninsurance.eu/nqcontent.cfm?a_...
I sold the G33 to a bloke from Germany, not all overseas buyers are scammers. He needed the V5 to investigate the registration process especially as the car had no cat.
He eventually flew over, viewed the car, flew home and terabnsferred the full price to my bank account, he flew back 2 weeks later and drove the car back to Germany
He eventually flew over, viewed the car, flew home and terabnsferred the full price to my bank account, he flew back 2 weeks later and drove the car back to Germany
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