996T or 997 C2S (gen 1)?

[fstorm]

This has probably been asked before - I've used the search function and all I get is info on the 997T or info on the 996T, but not comparing 996T and 997 C2S.

I'd like to tap into the collective experience of the PH porker crew ;-)

I've been driving 2 wheeled powered vehicles of the last 12 years or so. A recent accident where I got punted off the thing by a driver running the lights has had me retire from my bike.

Car-wise I've had 0.9L Fiesta, 1.3 Golf, Rover 213, tuned mk2 Golf GTI 16v ... Audi S3 mk1. Also have a (lightly breathed on) C350 with 300ps and 740Nm of torque. Recently I've been considering between E46 M3, CS, Alpina B3s, 335i, 996T and 997 C2S 3.8. Also quite like the GT3 bodied 996 with the 3.4, but I guess that'll be way too slow. I've driven plenty of fastish cars, Evo IX, X, 930T, E30 325i, Ferrari 360, Subaru WRX etc. Also driven a couple of E46 M3s recently, but I found them slow. Feedback from the steering wasn't particularly good either.

What's your real world experiences of the 996T and 997 C2S ? I'm interested on the driving and running costs. I'll be doing about 10k miles a year. Budget-wise £15-27k. I realise these cars will not be cheap to service or fix when things break. My requirements are:

4 seats
be fun to drive
feel special to be in
no less than 25mpg - 25 mile motorway/ 5 miles b roads / 10 miles of that stuck in traffic
it will be a daily driver
feel faster than my C350 with 300ps/740Nm

I've heard of bore scoring, IMS failure, ovalisation, D chunking, DMF & Clutch 997/996
radiators & condensors, cost of clutch, clutch MC+slave, DMF on the 996T

Edited by fstorm on Friday 25th July 09:20

[mollytherocker]

Both great cars but different. You wont get a clear answer here as there are strong arguments for both!

Try both, buy what you like!

[037]

My dad has had a 997 for about 6 years and covered 90k miles with very few problems! Great car but not a patch on my brothers 996T. Much better car IMO. Can keep up with a 360! Get the Turbo then post up some pics

[fstorm]

Trick is to buy that won't take me to the cleaners!
The same for any other car, but when it has a Porsche badge on it, it is x5.

[pierslofi]

Not that it would sway me, I love my 996t, but I have doubts you'd get 25mpg with the drive you describe.

[newboy997]

love my 997.1 S

personally, the more modern feel and sound of the S (with exhaust) swung it for me

(but over 6k of mixed driving have averaged 22.8 mpg)

if you can cope with that, bore scoring shouldn't be ignored (there's loads on here to get you informed on that subject) but can be mitigated against - don't let the scaremongers put you of necessarily

[geresey]

Your listed options is almost exactly same as when I was looking. Ended up going for 996 TT on basis of 1) might get near enough same money for it when I sell 2) a 911 turbo..... opportunity to get a 100k supercar
Since I've had it, yes, expensive to maintain, but still rather that than losing 4k a year in depreciation and nothing to show for it! Get 30mpg on m way run. Haven't measured it when having a thrash round, but used about half a tank in a couple of hours the other day ( cheaper than karting....). The only real downside is there are too few opportunities to drive it hard round here...that may bother you on daily drive if traffic is rubbish!!

[fstorm]

the mpg target is a more nice to have really - it isn't going to make a huge amount of difference to the running costs, 25mpg is around £2500 pa, 22mpg about £2800, about the cost of one tyre ...

The E9x M3 is a possibility, faster than the 997, and closer to a 996T, but 8 years newer and sounds good, same apply to the gen1 C63, which sounds even better than the all the cars I've mentioned, but will it scratch that itch ..?

Thanks for your replies so far, it all goes into the decision melting pot, please keep them coming !

[fstorm]

Are there any 911/Porsche forums I should be checking out/ that you guys recommend ?

[Mad March Taffy]

The 4 seats element is also something you should look at depending on the size of the 3rd and 4th passenger. You can't really call the rear seats in a 996T suitable for anything other than a short journey if you are more than about 5ft tall! Especially if either/both of the front seats are occupied by anyone with long legs!

[monthefish]

This might be of interest...
I suppose what's changed simnce that thread was posted, is that both the 996 and 997 are 'old' 911s, and any criticism regarding the interior not being modern enough can now be levelled at both cars.

(p.s. I subsequently bought a 996t, it never really was in much doubt )

[anonymous-user]

fstorm said:

Are there any 911/Porsche forums I should be checking out/ that you guys recommend ?

911uk.

And get the turbo. You really won't regret it.

[Crimp a Length!]

Personally i'd go with the 996 Turbo (i'm on my third)
I think long-term you'll lose less money also so i guess you have to consider whole life costings.
Metzer engine would swing it for me in any case, proven and bullet proof (within reason)

[996TT02]

Crimp a Length! said:

Personally i'd go with the 996 Turbo (i'm on my third)
I think long-term you'll lose less money also so i guess you have to consider whole life costings.
Metzer engine would swing it for me in any case, proven and bullet proof (within reason)

+1 On the above.

Any help, I too was umming and aahing over near enough the same choice albeit a C4 and went for the Turbo, and I would do the same thing today.

However a 97.2 maybe as long as the price were right.

[fstorm]

Great response !

Any of you guys that have bought an "old" 996T created a blog or build thread ?

Any regrets ?

At the moment I'm leaning towards a 996T. Are there particular things or years to avoid ?

I haven't seen the 996T or 997 up close yet. I'm going to see if there are any dealers nearby.

I'm close to Gatwick, any one know of any specialists nearby ?

Many thanks.

[monthefish]

fstorm said:

Great response !

Any of you guys that have bought an "old" 996T created a blog or build thread ?

Any regrets ?

At the moment I'm leaning towards a 996T. Are there particular things or years to avoid ?

I haven't seen the 996T or 997 up close yet. I'm going to see if there are any dealers nearby.

I'm close to Gatwick, any one know of any specialists nearby ?

Many thanks.

I bought a 2002 turbo in 2011. My only regret was selling it and, perhaps, not buying it sooner. I LOVED mine.

There were various model year upgrades since its intro in 2000, with 2002 bringing the most comprehensive of changes (I'll see if I can dig out my list of what happened when), so if possible go for a 2002 or later car, but it is more important to find a 'good' car (well maintained) rather than a 'later' car.


ETA:

monthefish said:

The 996 Turbo was unveilled in late 1999 for 2000 model year.

The 2001 models gained electric switches to open the front and rear lids, and improved interior illumination.

2002 models were the so-called facelift cars: glovebox, twin cup-holders, soft-touch plastics, better ventilation, Bose sound system, an auto-dim interior mirror and a rain sensor. Also, X50 power upgrade became an option.

All nice things to have if possible, but not at the expense of an older/better car if it was a choice between the 2.

[pete]

fstorm said:

I'm close to Gatwick, any one know of any specialists nearby ?

Nine Excellence are just up the road from Gatwick in Horley, and are one of the most respected 996 Turbo specialists around. They don't sell cars (as far as I know) but they do very thorough inspections, and Ken might know of a customer who is looking to sell. I would definitely pop by for a chat with them, they should be able to share lots of buying advice.

Pete

[braddo]

I expect that owning a 996 Turbo and living near Gatwick could get very, very expensive!

[fstorm]

braddo said:

I expect that owning a 996 Turbo and living near Gatwick could get very, very expensive!

???

[fstorm]

monthefish said:

I bought a 2002 turbo in 2011. My only regret was selling it and, perhaps, not buying it sooner. I LOVED mine.

There were various model year upgrades since its intro in 2000, with 2002 bringing the most comprehensive of changes (I'll see if I can dig out my list of what happened when), so if possible go for a 2002 or later car, but it is more important to find a 'good' car (well maintained) rather than a 'later' car.


ETA:

monthefish said:

The 996 Turbo was unveilled in late 1999 for 2000 model year.

The 2001 models gained electric switches to open the front and rear lids, and improved interior illumination.

2002 models were the so-called facelift cars: glovebox, twin cup-holders, soft-touch plastics, better ventilation, Bose sound system, an auto-dim interior mirror and a rain sensor. Also, X50 power upgrade became an option.

All nice things to have if possible, but not at the expense of an older/better car if it was a choice between the 2.

Very useful Mr Fish, what did you replaced your 996T with ?