RE: PH in Dubai - Ferrari vs McLaren

RE: PH in Dubai - Ferrari vs McLaren

Monday 24th November 2014

PH in Dubai - Ferrari vs McLaren

458 Challenge and 12C Sprint compared, via an invitation from Dragon Racing; Dale suits up



The rivalry between McLaren and Ferrari isn't just in the imagination of Hollywood scriptwriters or the bluster of racing commentators. Now it extends from F1 into both road going supercars and GT racers, even if the current midfield scrapping isn't really living up to the their previous success in GP racing. There's always next year...

Rivalry casts a long shadow ... well, wing does
Rivalry casts a long shadow ... well, wing does
Regardless, it's a spirit of competition that divides fans into two distinct camps. But not at DragonRacing, which owns and operates both Ferraris and McLarens. And after reading our stories on the McLaren 650S Sprint, owner Leon Price made us an offer impossible to refuse.

Namely, to drive comparable examples of McLaren and Ferrari's customer racing products. The McLaren 12C Sprint and Ferrari 458 Challenge. Back to back. On the Dubai Autodrome GP circuit.

Sand is like water
Standing in the blazing November sun of Dubai Autodrome, I'm all suited and booted and we're going to start with my baseline, the McLaren 12C Sprint. I ask for some passenger laps first - just something to bridge the gap from simulator laps at home to the real thing.

Not a bad way to get your eye in at a new track
Not a bad way to get your eye in at a new track
Because even that does little to prepare you for a real track. There are real-world lines to learn but the biggest new factor is the sand. It's everywhere. The racing line is clean but as we let another Dragon car through there's a rooster tail of sand sucked up into its wake.

"Just treat it like a dry line, with damp patches off-line," explains Dragon's director of racing and coaching, Rob Barff. "It's no different to a wet morning start at any race track. The sand is almost identical to water as it's just an interface between your tyres and the road. It's just harder to see."

With those words in my head, it's time for my first laps.

As liveries go this is a pretty cool one
As liveries go this is a pretty cool one
Learning curve(s)
Like most of the car, the McLaren's cockpit is pretty much visually identical to the 650S Sprint and all carbon fibre and brushed aluminium. Turbos spool, the V8 hollers, and we're propelled out on to the circuit, a grin already spreading across my face.

Lap by lap the McLaren shows me the way around Dubai's curves and crests. It's not a flat track but, like the 650S I drove previously, this Sprint has a habit of making things feel easy. That ability to put down 625 horsepower without drama remains astonishing. Earlier and earlier on the gas and the only response is a little smudge of understeer. It's only when we run wide enough to touch the sandiest of areas that the 12C truly starts to misbehave.

Let me quantify that. I'm not talking about armfuls of lock, like an Audi TT on remoulds. I'm just saying that the first axle to lose traction is the front. That's it. And from our race at Donington I know raising the rear ride-height can eliminate this, albeit at the cost of some stability.

12C is immediately exploitable ... and fast
12C is immediately exploitable ... and fast
But while I'm just gently gift-wrapping some minor criticism to leave on Woking's doorstep, it must be said that 12C doesn't have the immediate punch of the 650S either. No big surprise there, it's the 'older' model and the inside of that 3.8-litre motor is quite different. But I also get the feeling heat build-up is directly affecting the terminal speeds on each straight. Not wholly unexpected when a turbocharged supercar does 20 laps in the extreme heat of Dubai, but definitely worth a mention. And now it's already time to pit in and move on.

What's next Leon?

The Godfather
The 458 Challenge is the go-to car for the gentleman racer. Ferrari has a strong history in 'customer' racing cars, going back to the 355 Challenge. The format is constant and one followed by both McLaren and Lamborghini with their own customer race spec supercars; keep the best, most reliable bits of the road car, then add all the little bits you need to go racing. And this 458 has the 2014 EVO pack fitted too. Every year, every iteration, these cars get faster and sexier. The selling point of the original 458 Challenge was that it was only tenths of a second slower than an FXX around Fiorano. Now, with the EVO pack, I'm willing to bet it's faster.

Ferrari counters with a more focused set-up
Ferrari counters with a more focused set-up
Inside the Ferrari loses any pretensions towards civility or public streets. While it still runs air-con like the McLaren, inside it's pure race car. Toggle switches abound. The ergonomics are totally different.

Paddles are fixed to the wheel on the Sprint. The Italians prefer them fixed to the column. Buttons on the wheel? No way for McLaren, it keeps everything on the dash. Ferrari? It loves 'em. No wrong answers, no right answers. Personally I'd pick and mix from both approaches. I like shift paddles on the wheel, but I also like my traction control on there too.

This polarisation of design continues under the skin too.

On paper, the 458 is underpowered against the turbocharged McLaren. Not only is it lacking that massive wallop of mid-range torque, but it's 'only' making 570hp too. So imagine my surprise when that razor-sharp naturally-aspirated V8 pins me into the seat and winds the speedo a couple of mph past the McLaren at the end of each straight.

Time to crunch some data
Time to crunch some data
Bleeds the speed
If I had the spare mental capacity to be shocked, I would be. But the 458 is a bit of a Challenge (see what I did there?). The quick steering rack and razor-sharp geometry feel tangibly more direct than that McLaren. The front tyres find grip where the McLaren doesn't, though by contrast the rears seem to struggle. Nowhere is that more apparent than the excitingly-named Turn 13.

It's a flat-out left-hander shifting from fifth to sixth. Immediately followed by a massive braking zone.

Both cars go into it full-gas, but where the McLaren bleeds speed and energy simply by turning into it, the seemingly stiffer 458 holds the speed better. And where the 12C feels as steady as a rock, even if you accidently lift off while still completing the previous turn, the Ferrari is a little more aggressive.

It's not a wet November at Silverstone is it?
It's not a wet November at Silverstone is it?
Lift-off oversteer is a fun concept when applied to Clios or Minis on an airfield track day, but less so when driving a car worth around £200,000 at near-maximum velocity. This effect, whilst more pronounced at speed, keeps the 458 feeling pointy around the whole lap.

To boil it down a little more, the Ferrari makes the McLaren feel like it has skinnier front tyres when in reality they run identically sized rubber. Deliberate edginess to cool the boots of less experienced drivers? Maybe.

Compare and contrast
Lunch offers a chance to ponder a morning spent in these two seemingly similar but actually quite different cars. Both hailing from manufacturers with formidable racing heritage and expertise and yet each using different technology, be that the McLaren's carbon fibre monocoque and turbos or Ferrari's seemingly more old-school aluminium space frame and revvy normally aspirated engine.

Close call but it's Italy's day this time round
Close call but it's Italy's day this time round
Even with my limited experience on this track, and only five laps in the Ferrari, the times were devilishly close too. Don't read too much into it but, simply put, the Challenge was a second faster than the 12C. Same tyres, same overly sweaty Englishman behind the wheel. I think my times were still coming down every lap and even by the end of the day I didn't feel I'd levelled out completely. Given the Ferrari was the last car I drove little wonder its time was better. But a whole second?

So here it comes. Like an iceberg on the horizon, the tumbling half-brick falling off the lorry in front of you. The verdict. And, though I just want to be friends with everybody, I've got to call it one way or the other. And the Ferrari edges it.

Would the answer be the same for the lighter, wide-bodied GT3 versions of each car? There may yet be a follow-up to this story...


Ferrari 458 Challenge onboard video lap

FERRARI 458 CHALLENGE EVO
Engine:
4,499cc V8
Transmission: 7-speed dual-clutch auto, rear-wheel drive
Power (hp): 570@9,000rpm
Torque (lb ft): 398@6,000rpm
0-62mph: under 3 seconds (claimed)
Top speed: unknown
Weight: 1,277kg (dry)
MPG: n/a
CO2: n/a
Price: circa £200,000
Manufacturer info

McLaren 12C Sprint onboard video lap

MCLAREN 12C SPRINT
Engine:
3,799cc V8, twin-turbo
Transmission: 7-speed dual-clutch auto (SSG), rear-wheel drive
Power (hp): 650@7,500rpm
Torque (lb ft): 500@6,000rpm
0-62mph: under 3 seconds (claimed)
Top speed: 207mph (claimed)
Weight: circa 1,300kg (claimed)
MPG: n/a
CO2: n/a
Price: from £198,860
Manufacturer info


PH in Dubai:
The track day
Dune bashing
The Dream Drive
Pic Of The Week
The GT3 showdown


Thanks to Dragon Racing; Photos: David Benson

Author
Discussion

flingstam

Original Poster:

24 posts

165 months

Monday 24th November 2014
quotequote all
"Paddles are fixed to the wheel on the Sprint. The Italians prefer them fixed to the wheel"

er.... Dale...

xRIEx

8,180 posts

148 months

Monday 24th November 2014
quotequote all
article said:
FERRARI 458 CHALLENGE EVO
Engine: 4,499cc V8, twin-turbo
Is it?

Dan Trent

1,866 posts

168 months

Monday 24th November 2014
quotequote all
They're now reattached to the steering column, just where Ferrari like 'em!

Apologies; blades on the razor subbing eyes obviously need replacing!

Dan

Silent1

19,761 posts

235 months

Monday 24th November 2014
quotequote all
PH can you please either hire a proof reader or have another member of staff read all articles that's get posted, the amount of errors that creep into articles on the front page is crazy, it also makes the journalism look incredibly poor.

Dan Trent

1,866 posts

168 months

Monday 24th November 2014
quotequote all
banghead

Can only apologise.

Dan

Slickhillsy

1,772 posts

143 months

Monday 24th November 2014
quotequote all
Silent1 said:
PH can you please either hire a proof reader or have another member of staff read all articles that's get posted, the amount of errors that creep into articles on the front page is crazy, it also makes the journalism look incredibly poor.
Stop being a N0b - you don’t even pay for this (PH - Brilliant) service yet you want to bark on about minor points. Give them a break and enjoy the article, I'm sure your GCE English can navigate a few errors...

pigeonskirt

506 posts

139 months

Monday 24th November 2014
quotequote all
Turbo noises on that McLaren cloud9 I thought it sounded better than the Ferrari, which to me sounded like a VTEC Honda Type R with an aftermarket air filter. Not a bad thing in its own right, just unexpected.

Dale Lomas

218 posts

155 months

Monday 24th November 2014
quotequote all
OK, can everybody just look carefully into the light?


LotusEspritTurbo

754 posts

255 months

Monday 24th November 2014
quotequote all
Silent1 said:
PH can you please either hire a proof reader or have another member of staff read all articles that's get posted, the amount of errors that creep into articles on the front page is crazy, it also makes the journalism look incredibly poor.
"that's get post." You might want to get a proof reader yourself.

goodrood

4 posts

130 months

Monday 24th November 2014
quotequote all
LotusEspritTurbo said:
"that's get post." You might want to get a proof reader yourself.
haha brilliant !

Slickhillsy

1,772 posts

143 months

Monday 24th November 2014
quotequote all
goodrood said:
LotusEspritTurbo said:
"that's get post." You might want to get a proof reader yourself.
haha brilliant !
LOL... spot on!

xRIEx

8,180 posts

148 months

Monday 24th November 2014
quotequote all
LotusEspritTurbo said:
Silent1 said:
PH can you please either hire a proof reader or have another member of staff read all articles that's get posted, the amount of errors that creep into articles on the front page is crazy, it also makes the journalism look incredibly poor.
"that's get post." You might want to get a proof reader yourself.
"that's get posted"

FrankUnderwood

6,631 posts

214 months

Monday 24th November 2014
quotequote all
Slickhillsy said:
Stop being a N0b - you don’t even pay for this (PH - Brilliant) service yet you want to bark on about minor points. Give them a break and enjoy the article, I'm sure your GCE English can navigate a few errors...
No need for the insult.

PH is a business and the articles make up part of the deliverables. If the stories are of poor quality then everyone (I.e. PH and the readers) loses out.

legaleagleboy

605 posts

251 months

Monday 24th November 2014
quotequote all
Dale, really nice article and you gave a huge insight on the comparative driving experience. Go Pro quality was fab as well.

Think you need longer in the car(s) though wink ......... I propose an extended test drive in the Dubai 24hr race, same cars same track on 9/10th Jan !! ..... get your flight booked.

dafeller

599 posts

190 months

Monday 24th November 2014
quotequote all
LotusEspritTurbo said:
"that's get post." You might want to get a proof reader yourself.
I think it should be 'number of errors' and not 'amount of errors' as well.

Just sayin'

Mark-C

5,087 posts

205 months

Monday 24th November 2014
quotequote all
Good ol' PH ... interesting article about a couple of cool cars on a race track and we get the proof readers out in force!


DeltaEvo2

869 posts

192 months

Monday 24th November 2014
quotequote all
The Ferrari down 80bhp but a whole second faster? Are you sure?

Amirhussain

11,489 posts

163 months

Monday 24th November 2014
quotequote all
The 458 looks evil smokin

Slickhillsy

1,772 posts

143 months

Monday 24th November 2014
quotequote all
FrankUnderwood said:
Slickhillsy said:
Stop being a N0b - you don’t even pay for this (PH - Brilliant) service yet you want to bark on about minor points. Give them a break and enjoy the article, I'm sure your GCE English can navigate a few errors...
No need for the insult.

PH is a business and the articles make up part of the deliverables. If the stories are of poor quality then everyone (I.e. PH and the readers) loses out.
Then get in your Vauxhall Corsa and do one Frankie! Sorry, general consensus is the comment wasn't called for and nonsense like this spoils a great service. Not looking for perfection - PH is fine without the nanny state daily mail readers thanks.

pigeonskirt

506 posts

139 months

Monday 24th November 2014
quotequote all
7
Slickhillsy said:
FrankUnderwood said:
Slickhillsy said:
Stop being a N0b - you don’t even pay for this (PH - Brilliant) service yet you want to bark on about minor points. Give them a break and enjoy the article, I'm sure your GCE English can navigate a few errors...
No need for the insult.

PH is a business and the articles make up part of the deliverables. If the stories are of poor quality then everyone (I.e. PH and the readers) loses out.
Then get in your Vauxhall Corsa and do one Frankie! Sorry, general consensus is the comment wasn't called for and nonsense like this spoils a great service. Not looking for perfection - PH is fine without the nanny state daily mail readers thanks.
^^^This. People in glass houses shouldn't throw stones.