RE: Rare vintage: PH Blog
Monday 22nd December 2014
Forgive me, I know I sound like a stuck record on this subject at times. But driving the 1 MCoupe we had on loan for our PH Heroes piece was a further reminder we might have passed a high water mark for the kind of fast cars many of us enjoy. Indeed, I'd argue the 1 M represents, at least in BMW terms, the perfect intersection of technology and traditional driver focus. And from this point onwards the machines are only going to interfere more and 'augmented reality' is going to become ever more prevalent.
A high point for tech and thrills?In the 1 M's case you get all of the good stuff modern motor vehicle engineering can deliver; namely a sophisticated twin-turbo engine with bags of power and character but capable of vaguely real world running costs and enough of the convenience features like DAB, connectivity and the rest to make it feel like an up to date vehicle. More fundamental in its appeal is what it doesn't have. It doesn't have three modes for the steering, a series of throttle maps, dampers with a variety of settings none of which quite work for any given scenario or engine noise generated by speakers rather than the combustion of flammable liquids.
New C63 has a very tough act to followAMG's equivalent is/was the 6.2-litre V8 C63, a car I enjoyed very much this year on anextended loan and appreciated for its no-nonsense approach to going very fast, making lots of noise and using extravagant quantities of the earth's resources. Having driven theGT, the first of a new era of AMGs packed with configurability and multi-mode fiddling, I'm sure the similarly repurposed new C63 we'll drive in 2015 will be awesome. But will the tech smother the essential charisma? I guess we'll see.
The old ways still being campaigned by a fewThere are a few that carry the torch still. I worried as much about the 991 GT3 before driving it recently and returned from that sweaty palmed and a bit wide eyed, Porsche seemingly having used the technology to make it more edgy and focused rather than dumbed down and safe. More on this shortly. Meanwhile 'my' new Subaru WRX STI long-termer is a revelation in the authentic, mechanical interaction twixt driver and powertrain and the Megane Renaultsport offers a refreshing riposte to the VW group MQB rivals with their numb steering, contrived noise and 'sport' modes for everything from damping to cruise control. But it's clear which way the prevailing wind is blowing.
Rare vintage: PH Blog
PH scrooge Dan reflects (again) on why the very recent past may represent a water mark for fast cars
A high point for tech and thrills?
It's been set up properly by people who know more about damping, throttle maps and steering weighting than you do and leaves you to enjoy the fruits of their labours. Rather than delude yourself into thinking a button push can actually transform the dynamic attributes of your car and/or suffer the distracting 'mode anxiety' of wondering if you'd have had more fun on a certain section of road if only you'd have been in a different throttle/damper/steering/ESP mode. This, in BMW's case, was a proper last gasp for the traditional engineers before their software colleagues took precedence - a policy already well under way with the contemporary 'real' M cars like the E92 M3 and E60 M5. No wonder the 1 M has such a following and residuals remain firm.
New C63 has a very tough act to follow
Nostalgia ain't what it used to be and all that but I suspect we'll look back on the last few years of fast cars and see the end of an era where driver input was at least as important in how a car drove as that of the black boxes.
The old ways still being campaigned by a few
Bah humbug and all that. Maybe I need to lighten up and crack open some early seasonal cheer. Or simply set '2014' as the ceiling for all future classifieds tyre kicking ventures.
Dan
Discussion
When even the new Corvette (a car that's ignorantly seen as backwards by some badge snobs) has one of those infernal electric parking brakes, I have to agree! Unfortunately, I have an ominous feeling about the future with regards to performance cars - it seems everything's amalgamating into the same sort of legislated-into-a-corner Eurobox.
I think it's always going to be a very personal thing.
For me, "fun" drivers' cars peaked in the 60s. Whilst they've got immeasurably better as a means of transport since, nothing more recent can really match something like an Elan Sprint for pure driving pleasure on the odd occasion that it would be working.
For me, "fun" drivers' cars peaked in the 60s. Whilst they've got immeasurably better as a means of transport since, nothing more recent can really match something like an Elan Sprint for pure driving pleasure on the odd occasion that it would be working.
People have been saying this for many years. As long as there are people wanting to buy involving cars they will be built. It's not the end of an era at all. If anything we have seen more cars because the technology makes more variants more financially viable. Car makers can build smaller numbers of a particular variant of a particular model than they ever could. No longer are we saddled with one model being a single car with a range of trim options and possibly, if we are lucky, an attempt at a driver focused model that costs some vast sum of money because they have changed most of the parts.
Take a look at the BMW 5 series. It has the properly epic M5, the 535d wafty barge, the sensible shoes 518d touring, the properly good off roader (If it ever does more than the school run) X5, and the willfully offensive 5 series GT. Just one model has over 70 variants. I can see us getting more choice, not less. Sometimes drivers cars may not hit the mark, but car makers will keep trying as long as we keep demanding.
Take a look at the BMW 5 series. It has the properly epic M5, the 535d wafty barge, the sensible shoes 518d touring, the properly good off roader (If it ever does more than the school run) X5, and the willfully offensive 5 series GT. Just one model has over 70 variants. I can see us getting more choice, not less. Sometimes drivers cars may not hit the mark, but car makers will keep trying as long as we keep demanding.
I think this is all very true.
The thing is the car companies build whatever cars their customers want. Atleast within the laws of Brussels and Physics.
So if there is enough of a market for a simple, raw, reasonably well refined sports saloon then someone will make one.
The problem is most customers will not buy the car that doesn't have something, compared to the car that does. As more is seen as more and simplicity isn't highly valued. So manufacturers add loads of crap into the cars, and the sheep go: "F***ing bahhhhhhh yeah", I'll have my M3 coupe* with variable whatsit t
tage as that'll be much better than the simpler, lighter, more driver focused alternative that doesn't!
Of course this results in crap filled cars selling better than non crap filled cars. So car makers then set up R&D slurry farms to pump as much ADAS (Advanced Driver Assisting S**T) into the cars as possible. Leading to the situation we have now. Of cars getting heavier, larger and ultimately a hell of a lot less fun for those of us who don't have a SCAT fetish.
- I think thats pretty much in line with the article!
The thing is the car companies build whatever cars their customers want. Atleast within the laws of Brussels and Physics.
So if there is enough of a market for a simple, raw, reasonably well refined sports saloon then someone will make one.
The problem is most customers will not buy the car that doesn't have something, compared to the car that does. As more is seen as more and simplicity isn't highly valued. So manufacturers add loads of crap into the cars, and the sheep go: "F***ing bahhhhhhh yeah", I'll have my M3 coupe* with variable whatsit t
tage as that'll be much better than the simpler, lighter, more driver focused alternative that doesn't! Of course this results in crap filled cars selling better than non crap filled cars. So car makers then set up R&D slurry farms to pump as much ADAS (Advanced Driver Assisting S**T) into the cars as possible. Leading to the situation we have now. Of cars getting heavier, larger and ultimately a hell of a lot less fun for those of us who don't have a SCAT fetish.
- I think thats pretty much in line with the article!
- yeah I know the M3 coupe is now an M4 but it isn't really!
Toyota brings everyone the GT86. An NA sports coupe, high on driver involvement and feel. No adjustable suspension modes, throttle mapping etc. A truly great car straight from the factory.
A snip now at £22,495.00 for the entry level model and it even comes with a 5 year warranty. Yet hardly anybody buys one.
It's easy to sit and moan about modern cars becoming less and less involving, but if people won't put their money where their mouth is and actually buy one, I fear manufacturers will just not bother in the future and resort to offering an endless sea of white goods.
A snip now at £22,495.00 for the entry level model and it even comes with a 5 year warranty. Yet hardly anybody buys one.
It's easy to sit and moan about modern cars becoming less and less involving, but if people won't put their money where their mouth is and actually buy one, I fear manufacturers will just not bother in the future and resort to offering an endless sea of white goods.
pigeonskirt said:
Toyota brings everyone the GT86. An NA sports coupe, high on driver involvement and feel. No adjustable suspension modes, throttle mapping etc. A truly great car straight from the factory.
A snip now at £22,495.00 for the entry level model and it even comes with a 5 year warranty. Yet hardly anybody buys one.
It's easy to sit and moan about modern cars becoming less and less involving, but if people won't put their money where their mouth is and actually buy one, I fear manufacturers will just not bother in the future and resort to offering an endless sea of white goods.
The man has a point.A snip now at £22,495.00 for the entry level model and it even comes with a 5 year warranty. Yet hardly anybody buys one.
It's easy to sit and moan about modern cars becoming less and less involving, but if people won't put their money where their mouth is and actually buy one, I fear manufacturers will just not bother in the future and resort to offering an endless sea of white goods.
Gorbyrev said:
pigeonskirt said:
Toyota brings everyone the GT86. An NA sports coupe, high on driver involvement and feel. No adjustable suspension modes, throttle mapping etc. A truly great car straight from the factory.
A snip now at £22,495.00 for the entry level model and it even comes with a 5 year warranty. Yet hardly anybody buys one.
It's easy to sit and moan about modern cars becoming less and less involving, but if people won't put their money where their mouth is and actually buy one, I fear manufacturers will just not bother in the future and resort to offering an endless sea of white goods.
The man has a point.A snip now at £22,495.00 for the entry level model and it even comes with a 5 year warranty. Yet hardly anybody buys one.
It's easy to sit and moan about modern cars becoming less and less involving, but if people won't put their money where their mouth is and actually buy one, I fear manufacturers will just not bother in the future and resort to offering an endless sea of white goods.
In general I'd say the 90's or early 2000's were probably the high mark for me. Late enough so that cars were being built properly and wouldn't be likely to rust out from under you but before any of this modern emissions crap called time on decent engines. Sorry but a BMW with a modern turbocharged engine is not the highpoint for me.
This thing called progress clearly isn't to everybody's taste 
I for one enjoy and embrace the technology and the direction that modern cars are going, I like modern cars very much and I always appreciate the next generation when they are released.
I also like classic cars very much for what they are, old and in some ways very involving, I can't knock progress though, IMO it's for the better, it maybe that it's different but in most cases it's better.
I for one enjoy and embrace the technology and the direction that modern cars are going, I like modern cars very much and I always appreciate the next generation when they are released.
I also like classic cars very much for what they are, old and in some ways very involving, I can't knock progress though, IMO it's for the better, it maybe that it's different but in most cases it's better.
90's were the peak. That's when homologation specials ended.
"Halo" cars were and never will be best sellers. They were always produced because the companies used them to promote their brand and power. For what ever reason the Japanese at least have all but stopped producing these gems over the past decade which is a shame for us petrol heads all around the world.
pigeonskirt said:
Toyota brings everyone the GT86. An NA sports coupe, high on driver involvement and feel. No adjustable suspension modes, throttle mapping etc. A truly great car straight from the factory.
A snip now at £22,495.00 for the entry level model and it even comes with a 5 year warranty. Yet hardly anybody buys one.
It's easy to sit and moan about modern cars becoming less and less involving, but if people won't put their money where their mouth is and actually buy one, I fear manufacturers will just not bother in the future and resort to offering an endless sea of white goods.
Then go back to 1994 Toyota had the MR2 GTS which was a mid engine turbo monster or the homologation rally replica Celica GT-Four or its super car killer Supra Twin turbo. Yet in 2014 all Toyota the biggest car company in the world can muster is a rwd coupe that doesn't even have a home built Yamaha engine in it.A snip now at £22,495.00 for the entry level model and it even comes with a 5 year warranty. Yet hardly anybody buys one.
It's easy to sit and moan about modern cars becoming less and less involving, but if people won't put their money where their mouth is and actually buy one, I fear manufacturers will just not bother in the future and resort to offering an endless sea of white goods.
"Halo" cars were and never will be best sellers. They were always produced because the companies used them to promote their brand and power. For what ever reason the Japanese at least have all but stopped producing these gems over the past decade which is a shame for us petrol heads all around the world.
Edited by BricktopST205 on Monday 22 December 23:20
Edited by BricktopST205 on Monday 22 December 23:23
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