Ultima Group C
Discussion
HI Guys, It's been some time since I've logged into the PH forum. I wanted to show a couple images surrounding my latest GTR revisions.
This project started out as an accident, literally. I rolled my Ultima back into my Steel gate on my driveway. The damage was limited to the Rear Clip but I was in a position where I ultimately needed to paint the car. Long story short, I took the opportunity to perform a number of Body changes to the Car. Rather than bringing the car into the future I am focused on returning to the past with a very "GTP Group C" Look. The biggest changes, aside from the Body, will be the active tunnel (almost exact copy of the C11) and iterations of the fuel system, among many others.
Enjoy,
Chris Julian
This project started out as an accident, literally. I rolled my Ultima back into my Steel gate on my driveway. The damage was limited to the Rear Clip but I was in a position where I ultimately needed to paint the car. Long story short, I took the opportunity to perform a number of Body changes to the Car. Rather than bringing the car into the future I am focused on returning to the past with a very "GTP Group C" Look. The biggest changes, aside from the Body, will be the active tunnel (almost exact copy of the C11) and iterations of the fuel system, among many others.
Enjoy,
Chris Julian
- This first images show the proposed frame changes to allow for a full Tunnel system. I will send images off the body changes soon...
Hi Guys,
Thanks for the interest. I do appreciate the knowledge and experience that many of the PH members can provide. And I'm sure I will be hassled about the functionality of many of the features I will be integrating into the car. That said, I do have a lot of ideas about where to take this project but It's always good to talk with like minded mates that can offer suggestions, or point out potential pit falls.
As far as the Aero package is concerned, I am trying to closely emulate the aero on the Group C, Sauber C9/C11 race cars. These two cars performed very well, for a number of years. I have not read or heard about any real issues with safety. In the past year I have gathered a lot of info about the Sauber Race Cars, particularly the various embodiments of the C9-C11, and have a couple of great models that display very detailed geometry WRT the underside of those race cars. There were a lot of Aero and body changes throughout the years these cars were raced, including rear wing location (height, position relative to read clip, end plate configuration, etc..). I will do my best to replicate the aero and body geometry as well as provide flexible mounting points for the wing(s), endplates, etc... In the end this will be a street legal car to be driven not only on the track but also on the streets, and highways of California.
I'll have to resize the body pictures, but will send soon.
Best, Chris
Thanks for the interest. I do appreciate the knowledge and experience that many of the PH members can provide. And I'm sure I will be hassled about the functionality of many of the features I will be integrating into the car. That said, I do have a lot of ideas about where to take this project but It's always good to talk with like minded mates that can offer suggestions, or point out potential pit falls.
As far as the Aero package is concerned, I am trying to closely emulate the aero on the Group C, Sauber C9/C11 race cars. These two cars performed very well, for a number of years. I have not read or heard about any real issues with safety. In the past year I have gathered a lot of info about the Sauber Race Cars, particularly the various embodiments of the C9-C11, and have a couple of great models that display very detailed geometry WRT the underside of those race cars. There were a lot of Aero and body changes throughout the years these cars were raced, including rear wing location (height, position relative to read clip, end plate configuration, etc..). I will do my best to replicate the aero and body geometry as well as provide flexible mounting points for the wing(s), endplates, etc... In the end this will be a street legal car to be driven not only on the track but also on the streets, and highways of California.
I'll have to resize the body pictures, but will send soon.
Best, Chris
Chris
I suspect the biggest issue will be the position of the fuel tanks. In the Sauber the air intake to cool the engine compartment is not hampered by the fuel tanks. Your under tray will restrict air exit from the (very warm) engine bay. So a double whammy.
Most of the time an Ultima is front end aero challenged so beware of adding too much rear down force.
A rear anti-roll bar would be a good addition too (if you haven't planned one).
I love the design though and admire your CAD skills. I wish you luck, as this is what Ultima ownership is all about IMO.
Please keep the updates/pictures coming.
Paul
I suspect the biggest issue will be the position of the fuel tanks. In the Sauber the air intake to cool the engine compartment is not hampered by the fuel tanks. Your under tray will restrict air exit from the (very warm) engine bay. So a double whammy.
Most of the time an Ultima is front end aero challenged so beware of adding too much rear down force.
A rear anti-roll bar would be a good addition too (if you haven't planned one).
I love the design though and admire your CAD skills. I wish you luck, as this is what Ultima ownership is all about IMO.
Please keep the updates/pictures coming.
Paul
Thanks Paul, Yep, that was one of the first decisions- to relocate the tank(s). I am still torn between a centrally located tank behind the seats, or two tanks GT40 style (next to the driver/passenger). I already have removable Side Pods so access to that area is great, and space is plentiful. The twin tanks would be easier but I have had a lot of fuel issues WRT the dual tank arrangement. It's a toss up for now...... With twin tanks I would manually pump the "reserve" tank into the primary tank that contained the pump(s), filters, surge system, etc.., all within the bladder.
Here's a picture of the rough body work.
I also wanted to thank Lee Benson for his help and suggestions with this project. He was the person that lead me to look at Group C cars in the beginning of the project.
Chris
Here's a picture of the rough body work.
I also wanted to thank Lee Benson for his help and suggestions with this project. He was the person that lead me to look at Group C cars in the beginning of the project.
Chris
OK Lee. Here are a few more pictures of the pre- pre paint. There is still a lot of fine details to work out but these pics should give you a since of the final shape of the Ultima GTP. We are awaiting the polycarbonate headlight lens that will cover 2 or 4, 7 inch round headlights- Typical to that era of race car.....
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I could use some help spec'ing a proper set of exhaust silencers for the car. I am specifically looking for units that can be repacked, and of minimal length. I want to route the muffled exhaust in front of the rear tires (C9 approach) and have an active "Cutout" system for WOE trailing out the back of the car.
Thanking for looking and all the positive feedback.
Chris
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|http://thumbsnap.com/iKUdnmqq[/url]
I could use some help spec'ing a proper set of exhaust silencers for the car. I am specifically looking for units that can be repacked, and of minimal length. I want to route the muffled exhaust in front of the rear tires (C9 approach) and have an active "Cutout" system for WOE trailing out the back of the car.
Thanking for looking and all the positive feedback.
Chris
If anyone is interested in developing a proper centralized fuel system I could offer the CADD files. I'm still on the fence as I don't want to give up the little space I already have between the Serpentine drive system and the firewall. To date I've lost bearings on two of the aftermarket (Street and Performance) drive pulleys and shredded two Belts. Seems like an alignment issue but, again, without access I may have to pull the motor, or the tank on each new problem......
The volume is ~3750 Cubic Inches, and with a sump system, HP pump, filter, and internal bladder the total may drop below 3500 cubic inches?? That's in yankee units.
Chris
The volume is ~3750 Cubic Inches, and with a sump system, HP pump, filter, and internal bladder the total may drop below 3500 cubic inches?? That's in yankee units.
Chris
Chris
That fuel tank is less than 60 European litres compared to the 88 litres the Factory tanks hold. You would be calling at every fuel station on a journey!!!
On track I think my standard LS7 engine burns fuel at between 4 and 6 mpg (or about a mile per litre) so you would only do about 55 miles on track between fill ups.
Not enough I would think!
Paul
That fuel tank is less than 60 European litres compared to the 88 litres the Factory tanks hold. You would be calling at every fuel station on a journey!!!
On track I think my standard LS7 engine burns fuel at between 4 and 6 mpg (or about a mile per litre) so you would only do about 55 miles on track between fill ups.
Not enough I would think!
Paul
HI Paul, I agree on both accounts. Primarily the track situation. I'm sure there are ways to increase capacity, and this was just a first pass at the CADD model with some rough measurements. If one was willing to create custom seats, as you might find in older race cars, then the seat and tank could blend together for more fuel capacity. This is yet another reason to pass on the single tank........
One big issue with the side tanks, aside from the fact that you again have two tanks to contend with, is the loss in storage capacity.
Thanks for the reply.
Chris
One big issue with the side tanks, aside from the fact that you again have two tanks to contend with, is the loss in storage capacity.
Thanks for the reply.
Chris
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