RE: Clio Renaultsport 200 Turbo: PH Fleet
Thursday 19th February 2015
It must be a rather odd time to be the press fleet manager at Renault. For the best part of 15 years, long-term Renaultsport test cars have been returning home with a set of fingernails embedded in the bumper and a river of salty tears down the bonnet. And now, with the new Clio 200 Turbo, that humiliating farewell ritual and unwelcome parting gift is no more. Still, I guess I have to be thankful that I'm walking away from this relationship with my dignity intact.
Turning its back on heritage hasn't workedThe simple fact is Renaultsport has uncharacteristically dropped the ball with the Mk4 Clio. That's a hard thing to say as someone who has owned, admired and lusted after Renaultsports over the years, but there's no escaping the reality. It's a fumble made all the more shocking because it comes after a celebrated winning streak that reads like a who's who of hot hatch heroes. And while living with one for almost a year has definitely unearthed some positives, there has never been enough Va Va Voom to take our relationship beyond the purely platonic.
Still at home in the paddock, 'sensible' or notNow, I'm a realist and we all know the move to turbocharging was unavoidable. Adding a couple of doors is begrudgingly tolerable; it's definitely practical. But the step too far on this Clio 200 is the gearbox. Clumsy and lethargic, it's a poor example of a dual-clutch system and it stymies any kind of meaningful interaction as a driver.
Clio put some miles in during our tenureAt least there's a comfortable, well-built interior to bang your head against. It's on another level to the previous Clio 200, and easily trumps both the Fiesta ST and 208 GTI. The infotainment system has thrown a couple of strops, but 90 per cent of the time it has worked perfectly. Ride quality is also a big step forward; sporty but civilised, a great compromise between comfort around town and B-road control. Economy and practicality have been improved too, and it all adds up to far more refined product than anything that has gone before.
Drive it like you stole it style works bestThough the direct-injection, 1.6 turbo engine is far from characterful, particularly as you close in on the lowly 6,000rpm limiter, the extra torque and improved usability over the old F4R definitely makes it a more effective tool for covering ground. What you don't get is the same level of satisfaction and engagement that came from working that old VVT 2.0-litre.
Clio Renaultsport 200 Turbo: PH Fleet
Final report on the new-school Renaultsport Clio; 'room for improvement' probably sums it up
Turning its back on heritage hasn't worked
From the moment it was announced, the Clio 200 EDC faced an uphill challenge. That it would alienate some of the traditional devotees was inevitable; that it has seemingly failed to attract a new and more mature audience - in the UK at least - is more surprising.
Still at home in the paddock, 'sensible' or not
Downshifts in the fastest mode (Race) have always been acceptable. Ratios are swapped with a blip, and often a pop from the exhaust, and they usually arrive about the same time as the paddle has sprung back to rest. Upshifts, though, are a different matter. First to second takes around a second. From there on, it gets a bit better, but once again the shift rarely arrives before you've released the paddle. Remember those early digital cameras, where you had to try and pre-empt the delay by pressing the shutter before the action? Well it's a lot like that with the EDC gearbox. Pull the paddle...and...there's the shift.
The move to a dual-clutch 'box should have brought the benefit of a relaxing, docile, auto mode for pottering around town. But even here, the RS disappoints. Sometimes the 'box inexplicably clings on to a ratio, refusing to shift up even on a constant throttle at 3,000rpm. Such random frustrations eventually led me to abandon auto mode and RS Sport and drive everywhere in Race, even if that means turning off the traction and stability control.
Clio put some miles in during our tenure
As tough as it is to look beyond the failures of the gearbox, doing so does unearth some talent, and a glimmer of hope that an updated Clio 200 might bring back Renaultsport's mojo. The chassis, most importantly, is a good'n. Not as taut and pointy as the previous 200 Cup, but brilliantly stable and perfectly damped - those hydraulic bump stop equipped damper struts never losing their composure, even when they run out of travel. The steering has a more natural weighting than the Fiesta ST and better communication than the 208 GTI, and it's only when I've taken it on track that I've really missed the lack of a limited slip differential. With trailed brakes and aggressive steering inputs it will also oversteer and tripod as well as any of its predecessors.
Drive it like you stole it style works best
I'm convinced an updated Clio can get back in the game. Absolutely key to any turnaround is sorting out the gearbox. It desperately needs more immediacy to fully involve you, as driver, in the experience. A snappier paddle movement and a tactile click to accompany each shift would be nice too. Of course there is always the option of just bunging a manual in there...
Having driven the Megane Trophy R recently, it's crystal clear that Renaultsport still knows how to make an absolutely amazing hot hatch. More puzzling is there's such a chasm between the halo model and the everyman's version. Get out of one and into the other and you can't quite believe they share the same parentage; it's as if there's been a mix-up at the maternity ward. Should Renaultsport squeeze five per cent of the Trophy R's feral brilliance into the Clio, it will be transformed.
Sad to see it go? Not really. Keen to see what a gen two model brings to the table? Definitely.
FACT SHEET
Car: Clio Renaultsport 200 Turbo EDC LUX
Run by: Danny Milner
On fleet since: April 2014
Mileage: 12,450
List price new: £21,835 (Basic list of £19,995 plus £650 for Cup Chassis, £300 for 18" Renaultsport wheels and Dunlop Sport Maxx RT tyres, £595 for Flame Red i.d. metallic paint, £295 for Renaultsport Monitor)
Last month at a glance: An emotional farewell for the Renaultsport Clio? Err...
Previous updates:
Clio arrives on the PH Fleet; faces an uphill struggle for popular opinion
PH 'accidentally' ends up in an impromptu Clio Cup race at Spa
Danny heads to Scotland in search of the Clio's hidden depths
Found - the Clio's wild side
Clio battles its Peugeot nemesis for Danny's affection
So, the Clio wants to be grown-up and mature - is it?
Does the NISMO Juke offer the Clio salvation?
New boots for the Clio
The Fiesta v. Clio grudge match continues!
Discussion
The fact that no one has commented on this so far speaks volumes. It seems that Renault have completely failed to capture the imagination of potential buyers meaning that this Renaultsport is unlikely to be missed by many.
I had one for a little over 3 months from September last year until late December on a very generous lease deal through family. I enjoyed it and found it a great deal easier to live with than the Clio 200 cup (non-turbo) that I had previously. However, I think the write up by PH is fair as the car is hindered by the gearbox which is sometimes a positive but, more often than not, is a source of frustration.
I think that the most telling thing is probably the fact that I got offered the Clio for a hugely reduced sum over list after it had done only 3,000 miles (or so) in my hands and I still found myself at a Ford dealer buying a Fiesta ST. For me, the Fiesta currently provides all I need plus it is lovely being back in a car with a cracking little manual gearbox even if I do have to admit to missing the Clio's automatic throttle blips when changing down gear though!.
I had one for a little over 3 months from September last year until late December on a very generous lease deal through family. I enjoyed it and found it a great deal easier to live with than the Clio 200 cup (non-turbo) that I had previously. However, I think the write up by PH is fair as the car is hindered by the gearbox which is sometimes a positive but, more often than not, is a source of frustration.
I think that the most telling thing is probably the fact that I got offered the Clio for a hugely reduced sum over list after it had done only 3,000 miles (or so) in my hands and I still found myself at a Ford dealer buying a Fiesta ST. For me, the Fiesta currently provides all I need plus it is lovely being back in a car with a cracking little manual gearbox even if I do have to admit to missing the Clio's automatic throttle blips when changing down gear though!.
I've tried one 2 weeks ago, courtesy of my local Renault dealer.
I was interested in it 2 years ago, before it was actually on the market, as I thought that 5 doors and an improved interior compared to my 172 could have been a good choice to perform both as a fun car replacing the 172 as well as an everyday commuter.
When the first details were released, especially the dual-clutch gearbox, reverting from the double axis front suspension back to a regular McPherson and the suppression of the Brembo calipers I decided to keep the 172 and get a daily driver.
After having finally driven the new Clio RS, I must say that I (once in a life it can happen) made the best choice.
As Danny said, it left also me completely cold.
Picture this:
Me to my OH: Darling, I'm off for a couple of hours...
OH: where are you going?
Me: (thinking it's not your business...) Renault dealer called me to offer a test drive of the Clio RS
OH: (Looking quite concerned) Do... you... want to... change car?
Me: No... just looking
45 minutes later
OH: already back home? didn't you say you were out for 2 hours?
Me: (uhm... why does she care? Lover in the Closet? who cares....
) yeah... but...
OH: what? didn't ou try the car? (When it happens I generally don't shut the f**k up for 2 hours)
Me: yeah but...
OH: what
Me: nothing....
It's not a bad car by any mean, but it doesn't you give any feeling that probably 90% of the cars on the market can give you too, then why bother with it?
I was interested in it 2 years ago, before it was actually on the market, as I thought that 5 doors and an improved interior compared to my 172 could have been a good choice to perform both as a fun car replacing the 172 as well as an everyday commuter.
When the first details were released, especially the dual-clutch gearbox, reverting from the double axis front suspension back to a regular McPherson and the suppression of the Brembo calipers I decided to keep the 172 and get a daily driver.
After having finally driven the new Clio RS, I must say that I (once in a life it can happen) made the best choice.
As Danny said, it left also me completely cold.
Picture this:
Me to my OH: Darling, I'm off for a couple of hours...
OH: where are you going?
Me: (thinking it's not your business...) Renault dealer called me to offer a test drive of the Clio RS
OH: (Looking quite concerned) Do... you... want to... change car?
Me: No... just looking
45 minutes later
OH: already back home? didn't you say you were out for 2 hours?
Me: (uhm... why does she care? Lover in the Closet? who cares....
) yeah... but...OH: what? didn't ou try the car? (When it happens I generally don't shut the f**k up for 2 hours)
Me: yeah but...
OH: what
Me: nothing....
It's not a bad car by any mean, but it doesn't you give any feeling that probably 90% of the cars on the market can give you too, then why bother with it?
As an owner of a 200t myself. I must say that I actually rather like my car. Not perfect and the gearbox needs a bit of work but certainly not the nightmare that some paint. Though I can appreciate that a lot of hard core RS fans may be a bit disappointed that it's not the visceral hard-core hot hatch that the previous generation/s were. And yes I know that ultimately the new Fiesta ST undercuts it on price and is a bit sharper to drive (especially on a track). But the Fiesta is not everyone's cup of tea. Tried one for a day and decided that as my "only car" that I could not live with the rather poor low speed ride quality. Great as it is if you push on (so not looking to disrespect the car or any owners here).
I would though like to take Danny Milner up on a couple of points though:
1) The comment/s about the up-shifts being noticeably slower than the down shifts. Can't say that in manual sport/race mode that I've noticed much if any difference myself. Could just be a case I suppose of your expectations being higher than mine. Though I do think the switches behind the paddles do need to be a bit more sensitive. Very easy to snatch for a gear change in manual (in a hurry... cough cough)and find that you have not actually triggered the switch. Maybe I'm just a bit ham-fisted.
2) The comment about it holding a gear to long in auto. I've discussed this on the Renaultsport forum with other owners and the only way that I can think to replicate this ... is if while in auto you get impatient and trigger an up-change yourself with the paddle (momentarily over-riding the auto mode). Obviously here the gearbox has to switch out of auto mode, change gear, then switch back to auto mode. This because of the time delay could then replicate what you've commented on. Certainly not had this happen to me in 11k of mostly spirited driving.
Other than the gearbox. It's certainly fast enough, holds the road and handles well. Steering slightly better (in my opinion) than the new Fiesta ST. Ride quality excellent day-to-day (lets be honest, we don't spend every waking hour on a race track). Brakes for fast road use are well up to the job, probably want better pads for extended track use. Interior is a reasonably nice place to be. Even the R-link system seems to have got over it's initial case of the wobbles (that's computers for you). Some of the cabin plastics could be a bit better quality and MPG no where near as good as it could be (regardless of how you drive).
All told. More than any other car I've driven / owned in more years (decades actually) that I like to admit to, it's very much a car that you need to drive for a fair while to hopefully appreciate. Though I can understand that some will still never like it. Be very boring if we all liked the same thing.
What Renault needs to do now. Is tweak the current car a bit to iron out some of it's foibles and also consider offering a more hard-core version with a manual box etc. for those that want a more track orientated experience.
Only my personal opinions here folks.
If anyone wants to ask me any questions, then fire away. I promise to try and not be too biased in my replies.
PS. Could well be a Trophy version being announced on the 3rd March. TBC
I would though like to take Danny Milner up on a couple of points though:
1) The comment/s about the up-shifts being noticeably slower than the down shifts. Can't say that in manual sport/race mode that I've noticed much if any difference myself. Could just be a case I suppose of your expectations being higher than mine. Though I do think the switches behind the paddles do need to be a bit more sensitive. Very easy to snatch for a gear change in manual (in a hurry... cough cough)and find that you have not actually triggered the switch. Maybe I'm just a bit ham-fisted.
2) The comment about it holding a gear to long in auto. I've discussed this on the Renaultsport forum with other owners and the only way that I can think to replicate this ... is if while in auto you get impatient and trigger an up-change yourself with the paddle (momentarily over-riding the auto mode). Obviously here the gearbox has to switch out of auto mode, change gear, then switch back to auto mode. This because of the time delay could then replicate what you've commented on. Certainly not had this happen to me in 11k of mostly spirited driving.
Other than the gearbox. It's certainly fast enough, holds the road and handles well. Steering slightly better (in my opinion) than the new Fiesta ST. Ride quality excellent day-to-day (lets be honest, we don't spend every waking hour on a race track). Brakes for fast road use are well up to the job, probably want better pads for extended track use. Interior is a reasonably nice place to be. Even the R-link system seems to have got over it's initial case of the wobbles (that's computers for you). Some of the cabin plastics could be a bit better quality and MPG no where near as good as it could be (regardless of how you drive).
All told. More than any other car I've driven / owned in more years (decades actually) that I like to admit to, it's very much a car that you need to drive for a fair while to hopefully appreciate. Though I can understand that some will still never like it. Be very boring if we all liked the same thing.
What Renault needs to do now. Is tweak the current car a bit to iron out some of it's foibles and also consider offering a more hard-core version with a manual box etc. for those that want a more track orientated experience.
Only my personal opinions here folks.
If anyone wants to ask me any questions, then fire away. I promise to try and not be too biased in my replies.
PS. Could well be a Trophy version being announced on the 3rd March. TBC
Edited by MikeDo on Thursday 19th February 22:22
I have an 11 plate Clio 200 Cup in the garage as a second/weekend/track car, that gets a lot of flack (no idea why) compared to the previous 172/182/Trophy models, so surely this thing hasn't a hope in hell.
For what it is worth (IMO).... The local Renault dealer, which no longer exists, couldn't even source one for my girlfriend to test drive, so she bought a Mountune Fiesta ST2 instead - a superb car in almost every way, fast, chuckable, engaging, reasonable to live which and which has, across the board, garnered better reviews than this fat, bloated pudding of a thing, I urge anyone considering a current model Renault 200 to check the Ford out instead.
What I really want to know is, with Renault producing a car like the current Renaultsport Megane, which by all accounts is a beast of a motor, how did they get the Clio so wrong?
For what it is worth (IMO).... The local Renault dealer, which no longer exists, couldn't even source one for my girlfriend to test drive, so she bought a Mountune Fiesta ST2 instead - a superb car in almost every way, fast, chuckable, engaging, reasonable to live which and which has, across the board, garnered better reviews than this fat, bloated pudding of a thing, I urge anyone considering a current model Renault 200 to check the Ford out instead.
What I really want to know is, with Renault producing a car like the current Renaultsport Megane, which by all accounts is a beast of a motor, how did they get the Clio so wrong?
Edited by Axionknight on Thursday 19th February 22:29
Axionknight said:
I have an 11 plate Clio 200 Cup in the garage as a second/weekend/track car, that gets a lot of flack (no idea why) compared to the previous 172/182/Trophy models, so surely this thing hasn't a hope in hell.
For what it is worth (IMO).... The local Renault dealer, which no longer exists, couldn't even source one for my girlfriend to test drive, so she bought a Mountune Fiesta ST2 instead - a superb car in almost every way, fast, chuckable, engaging, reasonable to live which and which has, across the board, garnered better reviews than this fat, bloated pudding of a thing, I urge anyone considering a current model Renault 200 to check the Ford out instead.
What I really want to know is, with Renault producing a car like the current Renaultsport Megane, which by all accounts is a beast of a motor, how did they get the Clio so wrong?
Each to their own.For what it is worth (IMO).... The local Renault dealer, which no longer exists, couldn't even source one for my girlfriend to test drive, so she bought a Mountune Fiesta ST2 instead - a superb car in almost every way, fast, chuckable, engaging, reasonable to live which and which has, across the board, garnered better reviews than this fat, bloated pudding of a thing, I urge anyone considering a current model Renault 200 to check the Ford out instead.
What I really want to know is, with Renault producing a car like the current Renaultsport Megane, which by all accounts is a beast of a motor, how did they get the Clio so wrong?
Edited by Axionknight on Thursday 19th February 22:29
First car I tried was the Fiesta ST but wasn't that impressed myself. Great reviews or otherwise. Not saying it's rubbish, just did not float my boat.
Out of interest. The 200t is actually 36kg lighter than the outgoing model.
Though I would agree that Renault dealers do seem pretty useless in being able to supply a demo for people to try (come to that... pretty useless in general). A shame that you dismiss the car so wholeheartedly without even trying it yourself. Not for everyone I suppose.
Though in some respects you do make an interesting observation in your first sentence.
Axionknight said:
What I really want to know is, with Renault producing a car like the current Renaultsport Megane, which by all accounts is a beast of a motor, how did they get the Clio so wrong?
I wouldn't say it's wrong... it's a lot different from what it used to be. The problem is that at that price level people are either passionates -and they expect something more focused- or look for something more refined and the Clio fails on both aspects IMHO.Edited by Axionknight on Thursday 19th February 22:29
AlexIT said:
I wouldn't say it's wrong... it's a lot different from what it used to be. The problem is that at that price level people are either passionate -and they expect something more focused- or look for something more refined and the Clio fails on both aspects IMHO.
Out of interest. Why do you say that it fails in both aspects?I personally think it tries to strike a middle ground and doesn't do to bad a job of it. Room for improvement as they say. But I seem to remember the initial version of pretty much every RS Clio that has gone before, came in for some flack one way or another. Then over time it gets honed and then everyone all of a sudden loves them. Fair enough the current car has a bit of catching up to do... A challenge for Renault here me thinks.
I thought my old school 200's depreciation was bad but these ones will drop like a rock? Mind you mine has fallen about £6k in 5 years so not too bad.
I'm one of those 'mature' drivers looking for a replacement (but in no rush) and wanting 5 doors, no more manual but fun. Hope next month's announcement will be a much improved version...
I'm one of those 'mature' drivers looking for a replacement (but in no rush) and wanting 5 doors, no more manual but fun. Hope next month's announcement will be a much improved version...
MikeDo said:
As an owner of a 200t myself. I must say that I actually rather like my car. Not perfect and the gearbox needs a bit of work but certainly not the nightmare that some paint. Though I can appreciate that a lot of hard core RS fans may be a bit disappointed that it's not the visceral hard-core hot hatch that the previous generation/s were. And yes I know that ultimately the new Fiesta ST undercuts it on price and is a bit sharper to drive (especially on a track). But the Fiesta is not everyone's cup of tea. Tried one for a day and decided that as my "only car" that I could not live with the rather poor low speed ride quality. Great as it is if you push on (so not looking to disrespect the car or any owners here).
I would though like to take Danny Milner up on a couple of points though:
1) The comment/s about the up-shifts being noticeably slower than the down shifts. Can't say that in manual sport/race mode that I've noticed much if any difference myself. Could just be a case I suppose of your expectations being higher than mine. Though I do think the switches behind the paddles do need to be a bit more sensitive. Very easy to snatch for a gear change in manual (in a hurry... cough cough)and find that you have not actually triggered the switch. Maybe I'm just a bit ham-fisted.
2) The comment about it holding a gear to long in auto. I've discussed this on the Renaultsport forum with other owners and the only way that I can think to replicate this ... is if while in auto you get impatient and trigger an up-change yourself with the paddle (momentarily over-riding the auto mode). Obviously here the gearbox has to switch out of auto mode, change gear, then switch back to auto mode. This because of the time delay could then replicate what you've commented on. Certainly not had this happen to me in 11k of mostly spirited driving.
Other than the gearbox. It's certainly fast enough, holds the road and handles well. Steering slightly better (in my opinion) than the new Fiesta ST. Ride quality excellent day-to-day (lets be honest, we don't spend every waking hour on a race track). Brakes for fast road use are well up to the job, probably want better pads for extended track use. Interior is a reasonably nice place to be. Even the R-link system seems to have got over it's initial case of the wobbles (that's computers for you). Some of the cabin plastics could be a bit better quality and MPG no where near as good as it could be (regardless of how you drive).
All told. More than any other car I've driven / owned in more years (decades actually) that I like to admit to, it's very much a car that you need to drive for a fair while to hopefully appreciate. Though I can understand that some will still never like it. Be very boring if we all liked the same thing.
What Renault needs to do now. Is tweak the current car a bit to iron out some of it's foibles and also consider offering a more hard-core version with a manual box etc. for those that want a more track orientated experience.
Only my personal opinions here folks.
If anyone wants to ask me any questions, then fire away. I promise to try and not be too biased in my replies.
PS. Could well be a Trophy version being announced on the 3rd March. TBC
Really interesting to hear another owner's point of view. I think your comments are perfectly valid and I can see why you (and others) may actually prefer the Clio over the Fiesta. I would though like to take Danny Milner up on a couple of points though:
1) The comment/s about the up-shifts being noticeably slower than the down shifts. Can't say that in manual sport/race mode that I've noticed much if any difference myself. Could just be a case I suppose of your expectations being higher than mine. Though I do think the switches behind the paddles do need to be a bit more sensitive. Very easy to snatch for a gear change in manual (in a hurry... cough cough)and find that you have not actually triggered the switch. Maybe I'm just a bit ham-fisted.
2) The comment about it holding a gear to long in auto. I've discussed this on the Renaultsport forum with other owners and the only way that I can think to replicate this ... is if while in auto you get impatient and trigger an up-change yourself with the paddle (momentarily over-riding the auto mode). Obviously here the gearbox has to switch out of auto mode, change gear, then switch back to auto mode. This because of the time delay could then replicate what you've commented on. Certainly not had this happen to me in 11k of mostly spirited driving.
Other than the gearbox. It's certainly fast enough, holds the road and handles well. Steering slightly better (in my opinion) than the new Fiesta ST. Ride quality excellent day-to-day (lets be honest, we don't spend every waking hour on a race track). Brakes for fast road use are well up to the job, probably want better pads for extended track use. Interior is a reasonably nice place to be. Even the R-link system seems to have got over it's initial case of the wobbles (that's computers for you). Some of the cabin plastics could be a bit better quality and MPG no where near as good as it could be (regardless of how you drive).
All told. More than any other car I've driven / owned in more years (decades actually) that I like to admit to, it's very much a car that you need to drive for a fair while to hopefully appreciate. Though I can understand that some will still never like it. Be very boring if we all liked the same thing.
What Renault needs to do now. Is tweak the current car a bit to iron out some of it's foibles and also consider offering a more hard-core version with a manual box etc. for those that want a more track orientated experience.
Only my personal opinions here folks.
If anyone wants to ask me any questions, then fire away. I promise to try and not be too biased in my replies.
PS. Could well be a Trophy version being announced on the 3rd March. TBC
Edited by MikeDo on Thursday 19th February 22:22
The real difficulty though is that, by trying to make the Clio all things to all men, Renault has lost it's main selling point which was previously the Clio's raw nature. I personally did not enjoy owning the non-turbo 200 but there was no doubting that it was thoroughly engaging just like its predecessors.
In terms of the Clio's gearbox I see what you say but I think PH has got it right because I found that the change from 1st to 2nd in the Clio "hung" a little which could be frustrating. After that it was fine so long as you were in manual sport or race mode. Also the down changes were fine in my experience as well.
I don't agree with what you say about the auto mode as, in my experience, it was often very annoying holding onto gears far more than it needed to (especially in sport mode). This meant that I often found myself switching to manual or flicking the paddles to force a change instead. Obviously your experience may be different especially if, like me, you flick to manual for most journeys anyway.
It was very tempting to consider keeping the Clio as I did enjoy driving it and could easily see it fitting into my daily routine. However, my Fiesta was cheaper, had less miles and also similar kit (as it is a well specced ST2 version) and I think it will be easier to shift on when it comes to change the car. I also find the Fiesta to be significantly more economical with it returning an easy 37-39mpg whereas the Clio struggled to surpass 32mpg whilst I had it.
You are quite right that the Clio is not a bad car by any means. In fact I can see exactly why you prefer it to the Fiesta. However, if you are looking for a more traditional hot hatch experience I think the Fiesta is currently the way to go but maybe Renault can close that gap with an update.
MikeDo said:
I would though like to take Danny Milner up on a couple of points though:
1) The comment/s about the up-shifts being noticeably slower than the down shifts. Can't say that in manual sport/race mode that I've noticed much if any difference myself. Could just be a case I suppose of your expectations being higher than mine. Though I do think the switches behind the paddles do need to be a bit more sensitive. Very easy to snatch for a gear change in manual (in a hurry... cough cough)and find that you have not actually triggered the switch. Maybe I'm just a bit ham-fisted.
2) The comment about it holding a gear to long in auto. I've discussed this on the Renaultsport forum with other owners and the only way that I can think to replicate this ... is if while in auto you get impatient and trigger an up-change yourself with the paddle (momentarily over-riding the auto mode). Obviously here the gearbox has to switch out of auto mode, change gear, then switch back to auto mode. This because of the time delay could then replicate what you've commented on. Certainly not had this happen to me in 11k of mostly spirited driving.
Hi Mike,1) The comment/s about the up-shifts being noticeably slower than the down shifts. Can't say that in manual sport/race mode that I've noticed much if any difference myself. Could just be a case I suppose of your expectations being higher than mine. Though I do think the switches behind the paddles do need to be a bit more sensitive. Very easy to snatch for a gear change in manual (in a hurry... cough cough)and find that you have not actually triggered the switch. Maybe I'm just a bit ham-fisted.
2) The comment about it holding a gear to long in auto. I've discussed this on the Renaultsport forum with other owners and the only way that I can think to replicate this ... is if while in auto you get impatient and trigger an up-change yourself with the paddle (momentarily over-riding the auto mode). Obviously here the gearbox has to switch out of auto mode, change gear, then switch back to auto mode. This because of the time delay could then replicate what you've commented on. Certainly not had this happen to me in 11k of mostly spirited driving.
Edited by MikeDo on Thursday 19th February 22:22
In the first few weeks of having the car, i remember a couple of instances when i didn't use enough force pulling the paddle to obtain a shift. Once i got a feel for the force required, i had no further problems. It doesn't help that's there's no click to confirm you've actually made the shift.
With regard to the hanging on to gears in auto, it's nothing to do with overriding the system by pulling a paddle and temporarily going into manual mode. I'm talking about second to third (usually) and third to fourth where the box would normally shift up at 2500rpm, but it hangs on until well over 3000rpm for whatever reason, despite the fact that i'm on a constant throttle. This is in normal mode, not RS Sport or Race. Now i only use auto/normal while the car warms up, then switch straight to manual/Race, even if i'm pottering around town and shifting up at 2000rpm.
Hope that makes it a bit clearer!
I really did detest the look of the new Clio, still do win the new RS Clio, but I did get to try the Clio TCE 90 and found myself really falling for that car and definitely didn't want to give it back after the few days I had it. The amount of pull it had surprised me and was certainly quick enough for a little city or town car, liked to rev and didn't look as bad as I thought it would.
If I was offered the 90TCE or the RS Clio 200T free of charge to live with, I'd certainly choose the former which is quite a shocking statement to me.
If I was offered the 90TCE or the RS Clio 200T free of charge to live with, I'd certainly choose the former which is quite a shocking statement to me.
Danny Milner said:
Hi Mike,
In the first few weeks of having the car, i remember a couple of instances when i didn't use enough force pulling the paddle to obtain a shift. Once i got a feel for the force required, i had no further problems. It doesn't help that's there's no click to confirm you've actually made the shift.
With regard to the hanging on to gears in auto, it's nothing to do with overriding the system by pulling a paddle and temporarily going into manual mode. I'm talking about second to third (usually) and third to fourth where the box would normally shift up at 2500rpm, but it hangs on until well over 3000rpm for whatever reason, despite the fact that i'm on a constant throttle. This is in normal mode, not RS Sport or Race. Now i only use auto/normal while the car warms up, then switch straight to manual/Race, even if i'm pottering around town and shifting up at 2000rpm.
Hope that makes it a bit clearer!
Thanks for the reply Danny, appreciated.In the first few weeks of having the car, i remember a couple of instances when i didn't use enough force pulling the paddle to obtain a shift. Once i got a feel for the force required, i had no further problems. It doesn't help that's there's no click to confirm you've actually made the shift.
With regard to the hanging on to gears in auto, it's nothing to do with overriding the system by pulling a paddle and temporarily going into manual mode. I'm talking about second to third (usually) and third to fourth where the box would normally shift up at 2500rpm, but it hangs on until well over 3000rpm for whatever reason, despite the fact that i'm on a constant throttle. This is in normal mode, not RS Sport or Race. Now i only use auto/normal while the car warms up, then switch straight to manual/Race, even if i'm pottering around town and shifting up at 2000rpm.
Hope that makes it a bit clearer!
Agree very much regarding the switches behind the paddles. I've commented several times on other forums that the best way to describe what Renault should be looking for... is to compare the difference between the keys on a stock membrane type computer keyboard (as per 99% of shop built PC's and laptops) to the quality feel and audible feedback that you get with a decent (and yes expensive) mechanical keyboard (something with say Cherry black switches). Worlds apart.
Fair enough regarding your comment about it hanging onto gears too long in normal auto mode. Can't say I've experienced this in my car. But then again I do live in Rural SW Scotland (lots of lovely B-roads round here ... not a motorway in sight) and it pretty much gets put straight into manual mode, sport or Race if roads in a decent condition.
MikeDo said:
AlexIT said:
I wouldn't say it's wrong... it's a lot different from what it used to be. The problem is that at that price level people are either passionate -and they expect something more focused- or look for something more refined and the Clio fails on both aspects IMHO.
Out of interest. Why do you say that it fails in both aspects?I personally think it tries to strike a middle ground and doesn't do to bad a job of it. Room for improvement as they say. But I seem to remember the initial version of pretty much every RS Clio that has gone before, came in for some flack one way or another. Then over time it gets honed and then everyone all of a sudden loves them. Fair enough the current car has a bit of catching up to do... A challenge for Renault here me thinks.
Unfortunately sales figures seem to prove that the new Clio does not sell as good as the old ones, that means that Reanultsport has not reached the goal of replacing "hardcore" drivers with an at least equal number of "enthusiasts".
I totally agree with you however on the point you're making about the positive evolution of RS cars in the past.
If we are all praising how good the Megane RS is, we do not have to forget how the first Megane RS was.
I am quite optimistic that eventually RS will polish out the Clio and give us a great drivers' car, I'm however disappointed by the fact that RS once again seems to release new models which still seem to be "beta" versions.
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