RE: What happened to the pocket rocket? PH Blog

RE: What happened to the pocket rocket? PH Blog

Wednesday 11th March 2015

What happened to the pocket rocket? PH Blog

There used to be a plethora of junior hot hatches and now there isn't - let the comeback commence!



Planet hot hatch is an exciting place to be at present. A new Ford Focus RS, Honda Civic Type R and Audi RS3 are all imminent, the Octavia vRS has just been improved and Peugeot has reclaimed some credibility. Heck, there are even rumours of buying and driving a Leon Cupra that did 7:58 round the 'ring...

Proves a point and it's hilarious - win!
Proves a point and it's hilarious - win!
But there's a common theme amongst all those. By varying margins, they are all over £20,000 and 200hp. Fine for their respective hot hatch class, but about the juniors?

Think about all the little c.1,000kg and 120hp crackers you used to be able to buy. Some were superb with even smaller numbers than that. Ford SportKa, Fiat Panda 100HP, VW Lupo GTI, Peugeot 106 GTI, Renaultsport Twingo and cars of that ilk. Where are the replacements for those? Granted, the Suzuki Swift Sport has taken on their mantle but there should be more choice. The MG 3 is better than you would give it credit for but its engine average at very best. I'm not holding out too much hope for the Adam Wham Bam Thank You Mam either (but I stand to be corrected).

The worst thing is that there's no excuse for lack of inspiration. Not only are there are a wealth of very good standard cars currently (the recently replaced C1/108/Aygo trio, the Up/Citigo/Mii and the Hyundai i10/Kia Picanto) but loads of good engines too. The Fiat TwinAir is crying out for a performance installation, and surely the 999cc Ford Ecoboost could be put to great use in a Ka. Volkswagen in fact made an Up GT prototype back in 2012 with 1.0-litre turbocharged three-cylinder engine and 110hp. What's happened to that?

Here's a car that needs replacing...
Here's a car that needs replacing...
Furthermore, if safety and efficiency concerns did kill off the old breed, then the new school easily addresses them. You wouldn't want to hit a Jenga tower in a Saxo for fear of injury but the current crop of city cars are eminently safe and the engines won't be outlawed next week. They're still light as well, which is a bonus.

There's more too. Think of how good the grown-up hatches from these manufacturers are. Nobody makes a duffer anymore. Peugeot was selling the 106 GTI at the same time as the rather average 206 GTI. Today even Kia makes a decent hot hatch in the Pro_cee'd GT and so the chances of them distilling the bigger cars into a few really good pocket rockets must be high.

... and this too!
... and this too!
So, car manufacturers of the world, here's what we need: 108 GTI, C1 VTS, Aygo T Sport, Up GT, Mii Cupra, Citigo vRS, i10 N, Picanto GT, another Renaultsport Twingo and whatever else I've forgotten. No more than 130hp is needed and as close to 1,000kg as possible. Turbocharged ones must have boost gauges. Manual with proper handbrakes please. Who wouldn't want one of those?

Perhaps there is a significant financial or political hurdle for not producing cars of this ilk anymore. But they always seemed fairly popular not so long ago and if VW can sanction an e-Up it can give the green light to an Up with 120hp. And a yellow SEAT version. Now feel free to reminisce about the past masters and let's get this thing off the ground!

Matt

[Source: Autocar]







   
Author
Discussion

MrStack

Original Poster:

5 posts

124 months

Wednesday 11th March 2015
quotequote all
Maybe the new Twingo RS and Forfour Brabus bring them back.

There is still hope.

JakeT

5,406 posts

119 months

Wednesday 11th March 2015
quotequote all
What was one the pocket rocket got bigger and fatter over time. The latest hatches seem massive, but that's what the market wants. The thought of an Up! GT sounds interesting if it wasn't canned.

Dr Interceptor

7,743 posts

195 months

Wednesday 11th March 2015
quotequote all
The problem is with them they have very limited appeal.

The whole point of the small car like the 108/CityGo/Twingo/Up is that they are cheap to buy, cheap to fuel, cheap to insure and cheap to maintain.

They are popular with very young drivers due to the low insurance, and favoured by parents due to relatively high levels of safety versus an old banger.

Fit a 130bhp engine in, and they will no longer be cheap to insure. That rules out most young drivers under 25, as they simply won't pay £2-3000 to insure a small car.

So, the only people that can run them sensibly are the 25+ age bracket. Problem is by 25 we want more than a 130bhp hatch. Whether its a hotter hatch, sports car, or something else, once you're 25 you can insure some much more interesting metal, so the junior hatch is long forgotten.


Limpet

6,292 posts

160 months

Wednesday 11th March 2015
quotequote all
Yep, small cars seem to be too big, too fat, and take themselves too seriously these days.

One thing all the "pocket rockets" had in common was a fundamental sense of fun in the way they drove. You could get into a base model and although you wouldn't go quickly, you could still enjoy yourself. The 106 or Saxo were perfectly capable of entertaining you as 1.1 poverty models. The hot versions just added power and grip.

Most small cars today are about as interesting as watching paint dry. Bloated, gutless and idiot proof.

thatguy11

640 posts

122 months

Wednesday 11th March 2015
quotequote all
No mention of the 500 Abarth?

JamesyBoy75

115 posts

156 months

Wednesday 11th March 2015
quotequote all
Surely the Jap market can supply some interest here, speaking as someone with a saved search on Ebay for a GTti (vain hopes I know) I really hanker after something tiny and punchy.

Impasse

15,099 posts

240 months

Wednesday 11th March 2015
quotequote all
Pocket rocket. /snigger/

Dion20vt

252 posts

161 months

Wednesday 11th March 2015
quotequote all
Free insurance deals from manufactures secured good sales on small hot hatches in the past. No reason why they couldn't do the same today. Sometimes free insurance is more attractive to a young driver than 0% interest.

Why do you think there were so many saxo vtr's about back in the day?!

Baryonyx

17,990 posts

158 months

Wednesday 11th March 2015
quotequote all
This is a class of car that has sadly died out. I'm not sure why, as even 15 years ago when the class was still going strong (led by the Saxo VTS, 106, 306 GTi and Rallye models, no less) there were bigger, heavier alternatives that were faster but no more fun. Now the smaller models have withered on the vine.

The French have always driven this market because they were the masters of handling. The capitulation of Citroen and Peugeot in this sector probably led the collapse, as Renault never struggled to sell ever more wild versions of the 172 and 182. Now even Renault have given up, just look at that awful new RS Clio!

s m

23,164 posts

202 months

Wednesday 11th March 2015
quotequote all

GTEYE

2,092 posts

209 months

Wednesday 11th March 2015
quotequote all
Subjectively, there seems to be less mass market appeal for affordable performance cars.

I'm pretty sure that a modern Golf GTi is a relatively rarer sight today than the equivalent Golf would have been 20 years back.

The relentless war on speed and the motorist generally over this period has pushed performance some way down the list of priorities for much of the mass market.


Monty Python

4,812 posts

196 months

Wednesday 11th March 2015
quotequote all
Weight - with all the safety features required they've become too heavy. This means more power is required, which means bigger brakes, which means bigger wheels....it goes on. Until someone comes up with a way to make a small car weigh around a tonne, they'll probably never return.

Baryonyx

17,990 posts

158 months

Wednesday 11th March 2015
quotequote all
GTEYE said:
I'm pretty sure that a modern Golf GTi is a relatively rarer sight today than the equivalent Golf would have been 20 years back.
You'd be right, IIRC at the time of the mkII Golf, 1/4 of all models sold was a GTi. That's just not the case now.

Pixelpeep7r

8,600 posts

141 months

Wednesday 11th March 2015
quotequote all
Mini Cooper S, Fiesta ST, Twingo ?

JRS2Rallye

14 posts

122 months

Wednesday 11th March 2015
quotequote all
I agree that there is a lack of a Junior category today, I am also biased towards old PSA hot hatches. However if you look at cars like the Fiesta ST they are the modern day equivalents. A 106 rallye S2 cost £9895 in 97, with inflation that is just over £16k in todays money, compare this with just over £17k for a Fiesta ST.

Baryonyx

17,990 posts

158 months

Wednesday 11th March 2015
quotequote all
JRS2Rallye said:
I agree that there is a lack of a Junior category today, I am also biased towards old PSA hot hatches. However if you look at cars like the Fiesta ST they are the modern day equivalents. A 106 rallye S2 cost £9895 in 97, with inflation that is just over £16k in todays money, compare this with just over £17k for a Fiesta ST.
It's hard not to be biased towards them, they were the best!

My old 106 Rallye is without a doubt the best hot hatch I've ever driven. When people talk about cars punching above their weight, this was a real contender for meagre stats balanced against incredible cornering ability. And because it wasn't very heavy and very fast in a straight line, you didn't spend ever approach to a corner diving on the brakes!


FIREBIRDC9

736 posts

136 months

Wednesday 11th March 2015
quotequote all
If there was an Aygo T Sport I would be signing the dotted line!

I love the looks of the new Aygo , but the engine is boring and dreary!

Give it a little bit of poke and maybe!

SmartVenom

462 posts

168 months

Wednesday 11th March 2015
quotequote all
3 reasons:

1) Inflation - cars now just seem expensive, but is an ST so different in price to a 106 Gti when you factor in inflation?

2) Insurance - kids get quoted £3K for a 1.0, I dread to think what a junior gti would cost.

3) Trend - hatchbacks are not the currently in vogue. They'll be popular again one day I'm sure of it, but that day isn't now so why build cars for an unfashionable/undesired sector?

Probably even more reasons, but to me I can easily see why manufacturers aren't active here.

ukaskew

10,642 posts

220 months

Wednesday 11th March 2015
quotequote all
I had the money for a new 'junior hatch' last year but there was simply nothing available. Having owned an Ignis Sport and SportKa before but wanting something safe for my newborn son, cheap to run but still fun. 100-120hp would have been fine, pretty much all the reasonable city cars now are good looking little things now that have fundamentally good character, so aside from a few tweaks they wouldn't have needed much work.

I settled with a bog standard Skoda Citigo, it's a lovely thing, silly cheap to run, well put together etc, superb engine note...it's just not very 'wizzy'. I struggle to see how there is no business case for a Up GT / Citigo VRs / Mii Cupra.

My old 'junior hatches'...

Suzuki Ignis Sport by Harry_S, on Flickr

Ford Sportka by Harry_S, on Flickr

soad

32,825 posts

175 months

Wednesday 11th March 2015
quotequote all
thatguy11 said:
No mention of the 500 Abarth?
Or this.