Why don't McLaren make their own F1 engine?

[TTmonkey]

You'd think a car manufacturer that only makes super cars would make their own F1 engine, wouldn't you?

So why do they go for engine partners? I assume they make the engines for their road cars, but actually I don't know. I know the F1 used a BMW engine,

Honda quite frankly, talk about how great they are..... But they are a bit if an embarrment just now.

[John D.]

I expect they simply can't afford it.

[stew-S160]

McLaren is an F1 team first and foremost. They have only just ventured in to making road cars.

Engines are something else entirely. If it were that easy...

[Puddenchucker]

TTmonkey said:

I assume they make the engines for their road cars,

McLaren's road car engines are built by Ricardo Engineering.

[RichB]

Puddenchucker said:

TTmonkey said:

I assume they make the engines for their road cars,

McLaren's road car engines are built by Ricardo Engineering.

I don't know much about the McLaren road cars so are these engines built exclusively for McLaren to a McLaren design? Or is it a tuned BMW or something like the Pagani uses an AMG?

[markcoznottz]

W

RichB said:

Puddenchucker said:

TTmonkey said:

I assume they make the engines for their road cars,

McLaren's road car engines are built by Ricardo Engineering.

I don't know much about the McLaren road cars so are these engines built exclusively for McLaren to a McLaren design? Or is it a tuned BMW or something like the Pagani uses an AMG?

Bespoke design. Architecture of block loosely based on shelved nissan Le Mans design. Others will be along shortly who are probably involved with design of said engine.

[ralphrj]

RichB said:

I don't know much about the McLaren road cars so are these engines built exclusively for McLaren to a McLaren design? Or is it a tuned BMW or something like the Pagani uses an AMG?

They are built exclusively for McLaren and are badged McLaren. I imagine that McLaren own the design of the engine but I couldn't tell you if anyone from McLaren actually had a hand in designing it.

I can recall a journalist raising the prospect of McLaren buying the BMW F1 engine when BMW announced that they were pulling out of F1 (McLaren effectively being on notice from Mercedes at the time). Martin Whitmarsh agreed that the idea made a lot of sense but wasn't going to happen. Reading between the lines, McLaren don't have enough money to fund the investment required.

[TTmonkey]

Puddenchucker said:

TTmonkey said:

I assume they make the engines for their road cars,

McLaren's road car engines are built by Ricardo Engineering.

Interesting. Thanks for that. I guess that's not widely advertised then....?

[stew-S160]

All over the interweb, magazines, etc.

[steviejasp]

Mclaren engineers were definitely involved in designing the 12c engine as I did some work for one of them and he had a block in his lounge

edit, hang on a minute. That's a complete lie. He worked for Ricardo (my memory is shot to st) so perhaps Mclaren had nothing to do with it

[hairyben]

John D. said:

I expect they simply can't afford it.

^That.

mercedes reportedly spent half a billion developing the hybrid PU. Renault cheaped out & spent half as much and now they have to listen to horner whine incessantly.

[Rich_W]

Serious answer

Why bother when Honda will happily pay Millions to do it for you.


Not so serious

Probably because judging from the 12c/625/650/675/P1 engines. They can only make 3.8 Litre Twin Turbo variants and NOTHING else

[Puddenchucker]

TTmonkey said:

Puddenchucker said:

TTmonkey said:

I assume they make the engines for their road cars,

McLaren's road car engines are built by Ricardo Engineering.

Interesting. Thanks for that. I guess that's not widely advertised then....?

Not sure if it's been 'advertised' or not, but this is reasonably informative article from around the time the MP4-12C was launched: http://www.theengineer.co.uk/in-depth/the-big-stor...

[anonymous-user]

Puddenchucker said:

TTmonkey said:

Puddenchucker said:

TTmonkey said:

I assume they make the engines for their road cars,

McLaren's road car engines are built by Ricardo Engineering.

Interesting. Thanks for that. I guess that's not widely advertised then....?

Not sure if it's been 'advertised' or not, but this is reasonably informative article from around the time the MP4-12C was launched: http://www.theengineer.co.uk/in-depth/the-big-stor...

All the OEMs rely on Tier1 and small consultants to develop and engineer their cars. And the lower volume more niche those cars are, the more that will be done by an "external" company.

Ricardo did the MAL V8, the electric motor for the P1, despite being nominally from MES it was actually designed and developed by a small company in Milton Keynes (who are also doing some of the Honda F1 hybrid powertrain stuff too). Companies like Mahle (nee Cosworth) in Northampton have designed and developed engines for Aston Martin (v12) and Audi and even Nissan (GTR V6 turbo). Even motorsports companies like Prodrive get involved these days, as for example they did the P1 active rear wing design and devlopment.


On the OP, Mclaren would never do there own engine for F1 because they simply couldn't afford to, or afford to mobilise the necessary resources to do so, especially now that these powertrains have become so incredibly complicated.....

[Total loss]

Puddenchucker said:

TTmonkey said:

Puddenchucker said:

TTmonkey said:

I assume they make the engines for their road cars,

McLaren's road car engines are built by Ricardo Engineering.

Interesting. Thanks for that. I guess that's not widely advertised then....?

Not sure if it's been 'advertised' or not, but this is reasonably informative article from around the time the MP4-12C was launched: http://www.theengineer.co.uk/in-depth/the-big-stor...

Ricardo build the engines - correct, Ricardo developed the engine, well in the later stages, final development - correct, Ricardo designed the engine - no, was designed & initially developed by another company as said loosely based on a stillborn race engine.

[slipstream 1985]

ralphrj said:

RichB said:

I don't know much about the McLaren road cars so are these engines built exclusively for McLaren to a McLaren design? Or is it a tuned BMW or something like the Pagani uses an AMG?

They are built exclusively for McLaren and are badged McLaren. I imagine that McLaren own the design of the engine but I couldn't tell you if anyone from McLaren actually had a hand in designing it.

I can recall a journalist raising the prospect of McLaren buying the BMW F1 engine when BMW announced that they were pulling out of F1 (McLaren effectively being on notice from Mercedes at the time). Martin Whitmarsh agreed that the idea made a lot of sense but wasn't going to happen. Reading between the lines, McLaren don't have enough money to fund the investment required.

iirc that bmw engine was pretty good was it not?

[SlipStream77]

Slightly off topic, but if the MP4 engine is not built by McLaren and it's roughly based on a Nissan design, does that mean that mean that it's not technically a thoroughbred?

[PiB]

But that's the point. A cutting edge Honda F1 engine block that belongs to McLarens road cars too. Out source it to Honda not Ricardo. I agree with the OP. McLaren is in the doldrums the last few years.

[bakerstreet]

Didn't Mclaren own a share in Ilmore, which essentially became Mercedes F1 engines?

[ralphrj]

bakerstreet said:

Didn't Mclaren own a share in Ilmore, which essentially became Mercedes F1 engines?

No, Ilmor was created by Mario Illien and Paul Morgan in 1983 with Mercedes taking a 25% stake in 1993. After Paul Morgan died in 2001, Mercedes progressively increased their shareholding and became the sole owner in 2005.

Mercedes also bought a stake in McLaren in 2000 but sold it after buying Brawn GP in 2009. Therefore, for a few years Mercedes owned part of McLaren and either part or all of Ilmor but McLaren did not own a share in Ilmor themselves.