The End of Diesels is here... FT article
Discussion
Apologies becuase I realise this topic has been covered numerous times but I don't know if this article has been posted before.
Just had a read of this:
http://www.ft.com/cms/s/0/627c6812-7faf-11e4-adff-...
'The promotion of diesel cars was a mistake'
'Aim to progressively ban diesel cars'
Based on everything I've read (my knowledge on this subject is quite low), including this article, I think it would be a good thing if taxing cars based on CO2 emissions was scrapped and an alternative method put in place. Banning diesels does sound a bit ridiculous though but in my mind, if diesels really are a bigger 'killer', becuase they are a bigger contributor to poor air quality than petrol powered cars, then I am all for having more petrols on the road than diesels.
The advent of moderns turbo petrols matching the low end shove of diesels and much improved mpg over NA petrols from 10-15 years ago, in my mind does make the diesel cars quite a silly prospect. Bring on low tax for petrol and high tax on diesel
Discuss?
Just had a read of this:
http://www.ft.com/cms/s/0/627c6812-7faf-11e4-adff-...
'The promotion of diesel cars was a mistake'
'Aim to progressively ban diesel cars'
Based on everything I've read (my knowledge on this subject is quite low), including this article, I think it would be a good thing if taxing cars based on CO2 emissions was scrapped and an alternative method put in place. Banning diesels does sound a bit ridiculous though but in my mind, if diesels really are a bigger 'killer', becuase they are a bigger contributor to poor air quality than petrol powered cars, then I am all for having more petrols on the road than diesels.
The advent of moderns turbo petrols matching the low end shove of diesels and much improved mpg over NA petrols from 10-15 years ago, in my mind does make the diesel cars quite a silly prospect. Bring on low tax for petrol and high tax on diesel
Discuss?
MysteryLemon said:
We shouldn't be taxing cars on any kind of emissions rating. It serves no purpose what so ever. VED should be scrapped and have the tax on fuel upped slightly to compensate. The more you use your car, the more you pay in Tax.
That would still favour diesels as things stand because diesel has less tax per unit energy than petrol. Diesel works for certain vehicles currently and will continue to do so in the future. Large family cars, tow cars, vans and larger vehicles it makes a huge amount of sense. What would you rather take a family of four with luggage and a trailer/caravan in, a 1.0t petrol or a 2 litre diesel? Both would likely give similar mpg unloaded but can't see the petrol being efficient fully packed... Of course a large petrol engine would be nice but that's not the way to get a similar mpg.
Taxing it out of the ball park is just another way to ruin small business that run vans or similar. It would also do a lot of damage to the people who have these cars and can't fuel them or trade them in as they're so undesirable.
Where it went wrong was push to make small city cars diesel, it didn't make a huge amount of sense and never played on the diesel strengths.
Tax on the fuel just makes so much sense. Betting what is done though won't be the sensible option!
Taxing it out of the ball park is just another way to ruin small business that run vans or similar. It would also do a lot of damage to the people who have these cars and can't fuel them or trade them in as they're so undesirable.
Where it went wrong was push to make small city cars diesel, it didn't make a huge amount of sense and never played on the diesel strengths.
Tax on the fuel just makes so much sense. Betting what is done though won't be the sensible option!
Monty Python said:
No mention of articulated lorries and buses, which throw out more pollution due to lack of particulate filters and so on.
As for economy, petrol engines may have made some progress but they're still 30-40% behind when you compare like-for-like.
Modern trucks have euro 6 compliant engines with dpf's , not sure about buses but I would expect them to have to meet the same standards As for economy, petrol engines may have made some progress but they're still 30-40% behind when you compare like-for-like.
Ridiculous. After the amount of money and ‘education’ into kidding the masses into driving diesel cars the government now admits that they are wrong, remember how evil you were to drive a 6 or 8 cylinder petrol car.
Now they will spend money to educate us into scrapping diesel and get us into petrol, then electric, then back to diesel because petrol and electric are bad how about methane, lpg, hydrogen, no all evil, oh wait, maybe not hydrogen, no, hydrogen is bad, back to petrol or diesel.
Drive what you want to drive, otherwise you’ll end up a confused mess. Diesel hate is as much a fad as petrol was.
Now they will spend money to educate us into scrapping diesel and get us into petrol, then electric, then back to diesel because petrol and electric are bad how about methane, lpg, hydrogen, no all evil, oh wait, maybe not hydrogen, no, hydrogen is bad, back to petrol or diesel.
Drive what you want to drive, otherwise you’ll end up a confused mess. Diesel hate is as much a fad as petrol was.
kambites said:
MysteryLemon said:
We shouldn't be taxing cars on any kind of emissions rating. It serves no purpose what so ever. VED should be scrapped and have the tax on fuel upped slightly to compensate. The more you use your car, the more you pay in Tax.
That would still favour diesels as things stand because diesel has less tax per unit energy than petrol. VED should be scrapped immediately. I can only assume they have not done because of politics "wah wah, I only bought my Aygo because it was VED-exempt..."
And clearly the per-unit-energy tax on diesel should be raised to a level such that, based on expected diesel consumption at the higher price, the revenues are sufficient to compensate for the damage of the particulate emissions. There are clearly bigger issues with this due to the consumption of diesel by various modes of transport that are important to the wider economy and the lack of readily available substitutes. Therefore I think they'd have to combine this with some transitional measures to have different tax rates for freight and other businesses who don't really have alternatives to diesel vehicles at the moment.
liner33 said:
Monty Python said:
No mention of articulated lorries and buses, which throw out more pollution due to lack of particulate filters and so on.
As for economy, petrol engines may have made some progress but they're still 30-40% behind when you compare like-for-like.
Modern trucks have euro 6 compliant engines with dpf's , not sure about buses but I would expect them to have to meet the same standards As for economy, petrol engines may have made some progress but they're still 30-40% behind when you compare like-for-like.
2005 Daf truck euro 4
2005 Ford focus euro 3
2009 Ford Mondeo euro 4
2009 Mercedes truck euro 5
Banning diesel cars would be farcical while the streets are still full of diesel-powered vans, buses and trucks emitting pollutants exactly where the pedestrians breathe them in.
If emissions matter, why is the government not incentivising proven cleaner fuels such as LPG, biodiesel and CNG?
A mileage-based tax, or additional fuel tax would be far more relevant if emissions were really a concern. Why should drivers like my father, who cover less than 1000 miles a year, pay the same as company car users doing over 20k miles per annum?
The system is a joke. I imagine the treasury is not happy with falling fuel tax revenues as people have switched to more economical diesel cars, which in turn has been driven to an extent by VED banding.
Ask yourselves does a Conservative government care about money or the environment? It's blatantly about tax, not emissions...
If emissions matter, why is the government not incentivising proven cleaner fuels such as LPG, biodiesel and CNG?
A mileage-based tax, or additional fuel tax would be far more relevant if emissions were really a concern. Why should drivers like my father, who cover less than 1000 miles a year, pay the same as company car users doing over 20k miles per annum?
The system is a joke. I imagine the treasury is not happy with falling fuel tax revenues as people have switched to more economical diesel cars, which in turn has been driven to an extent by VED banding.
Ask yourselves does a Conservative government care about money or the environment? It's blatantly about tax, not emissions...
Gassing Station | General Gassing | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff