RE: Silverstone and RM Auctions May sale results
Wednesday 27th May 2015
Where did you spend the Bank Holiday? At home? In the pub? Well a few lucky devils were in the auction halls, spending a great deal of money on some fabulous cars. Both the Silverstone Auctions May sale and RM's Villa d'Este auction have been previewed on PH and with results now issued there's no better time to follow them up.
Not a million, still quite a lot though'The £1m Fiat', a 1953 8V Cabriolet, was the big story on Lake Como. It eventually sold for 1,120,000 euros, or £790,000 at today's exchange rate. So not quite a million-pound Fiat, but certainly a huge chunk of cash.
£95-£105K estimate, sold for nearly £150K...In the rather less glamorous surroundings of the Silverstone Wing there were a few more surprises. The £22K Capri actually made even more than that, the final figure an astonishing £23,625. The Mercedes 190E 2.3-16 with a £25-£35K estimate sold for £38,250 and the Kiwi Jag XJC made £34,875.
Silverstone and RM Auctions May sale results
Bank Holiday bonanza at the auction houses, from £23K Ford Capri to £800K Fiat
Not a million, still quite a lot though
Other highlights from that RM sale include the Ferrari 288 GTO that made 1,904,000 euros (£1.35m, not purchased by D. Trent), a manual 599 HGTE that sold for a fairly modest 358,400 euros (£250K) and that captivating 212 Export Barchetta; the hammer fell on that at 6,720,000 euros (!), or £4.76m...
Away from Ferrari, there was yet another big-ticket Porsche sale with a Lightweight 2.7 Carrera RS making more than a million euros (1,008,000, or £714,000). The Austin Healey 100S and BMW-Glas 300 V8 also mentioned in the story didn't sell.
£95-£105K estimate, sold for nearly £150K...
Yet again it's the Porsches grabbing all the headlines though. The 997 GT2 RS sold for £280K but, more amazingly, a 1975 Carrera 2.7 soared past its higher estimate of £110,000 to make £146,250. The Ferrari F512M with a £280-£330,000 guide didn't sell. Funny that.
See the full list of results from Silverstone here and RM here.
[Fiat pic: Tim Scott for RM]
Discussion
I'm sure that's true, it was more of a query about that particular air-cooled 911.
This one sold for almost exactly £100k less at the same auction...
http://www.silverstoneauctions.com/1984-porsche-91...
I know it's not an identical model and it's LHD, but doesn't need restoring and has only covered 17k miles.
This one sold for almost exactly £100k less at the same auction...
http://www.silverstoneauctions.com/1984-porsche-91...
I know it's not an identical model and it's LHD, but doesn't need restoring and has only covered 17k miles.
5pen said:
I'm sure that's true, it was more of a query about that particular air-cooled 911.
This one sold for almost exactly £100k less at the same auction...
http://www.silverstoneauctions.com/1984-porsche-91...
I know it's not an identical model and it's LHD, but doesn't need restoring and has only covered 17k miles.
Why is the 2.7 carrera so highly prized over the later 3.0 or 3.2 models?This one sold for almost exactly £100k less at the same auction...
http://www.silverstoneauctions.com/1984-porsche-91...
I know it's not an identical model and it's LHD, but doesn't need restoring and has only covered 17k miles.
daveco said:
Why is the 2.7 carrera so highly prized over the later 3.0 or 3.2 models?
The Carrera 2.7 as sold everywhere except the USA is mechanically identical to the 1973 Carrera RS. When it was replaced, by the lower powered Carrera 3 and then the later SC, the replacement cars were rated by road testers and owners as something of a downgrade from the older 2.7. Even the higher powered of the two 911SC models was still less than the 2.7, and meanwhile the weight was going up. It wasn't until the 3.2 that the standard factory 911 outperformed the Carrera 2.7.(The US 2.7 Carrera model with the CIS engine was inferior, only about 175 ps versus the 210 ps of the MFI-engined rest of world spec 2.7 Carrera.)
Edited by Lowtimer on Wednesday 27th May 12:40
Lowtimer said:
daveco said:
Why is the 2.7 carrera so highly prized over the later 3.0 or 3.2 models?
The Carrera 2.7 as sold everywhere except the USA is mechanically identical to the 1973 Carrera RS. When it was replaced, by the lower powered Carrera 3 and then the later SC, the replacement cars were rated by road testers and owners as something of a downgrade from the older 2.7. Even the higher powered of the two 911SC models was still less than the 2.7, and meanwhile the weight was going up. It wasn't until the 3.2 that the standard factory 911 outperformed the Carrera 2.7.(The US 2.7 Carrera model with the CIS engine was inferior, only about 175 ps versus the 210 ps of the MFI-engined rest of world spec 2.7 Carrera.)
Edited by Lowtimer on Wednesday 27th May 12:40
daveco said:
5pen said:
I'm sure that's true, it was more of a query about that particular air-cooled 911.
This one sold for almost exactly £100k less at the same auction...
http://www.silverstoneauctions.com/1984-porsche-91...
I know it's not an identical model and it's LHD, but doesn't need restoring and has only covered 17k miles.
Why is the 2.7 carrera so highly prized over the later 3.0 or 3.2 models?This one sold for almost exactly £100k less at the same auction...
http://www.silverstoneauctions.com/1984-porsche-91...
I know it's not an identical model and it's LHD, but doesn't need restoring and has only covered 17k miles.
By the time of the 3.0 and 3.2 they were galvanised, so I would guess more of them will have survived. They were also probably built in higher numbers by the 80s (still small compared to the 996on eras though).
There will also be a premium for the pre-impact bumper versions.
daveco said:
Lowtimer said:
daveco said:
Why is the 2.7 carrera so highly prized over the later 3.0 or 3.2 models?
The Carrera 2.7 as sold everywhere except the USA is mechanically identical to the 1973 Carrera RS. When it was replaced, by the lower powered Carrera 3 and then the later SC, the replacement cars were rated by road testers and owners as something of a downgrade from the older 2.7. Even the higher powered of the two 911SC models was still less than the 2.7, and meanwhile the weight was going up. It wasn't until the 3.2 that the standard factory 911 outperformed the Carrera 2.7.(The US 2.7 Carrera model with the CIS engine was inferior, only about 175 ps versus the 210 ps of the MFI-engined rest of world spec 2.7 Carrera.)
Edited by Lowtimer on Wednesday 27th May 12:40
Lowtimer said:
daveco said:
Why is the 2.7 carrera so highly prized over the later 3.0 or 3.2 models?
The Carrera 2.7 as sold everywhere except the USA is mechanically identical to the 1973 Carrera RS. When it was replaced, by the lower powered Carrera 3 and then the later SC, the replacement cars were rated by road testers and owners as something of a downgrade from the older 2.7. Even the higher powered of the two 911SC models was still less than the 2.7, and meanwhile the weight was going up. It wasn't until the 3.2 that the standard factory 911 outperformed the Carrera 2.7.Plus numbers of 2.7 over the 3 years it was produced were pretty much identical to the RS (c.1,600 of each).
So you're buying a car for £150k that's equally as rare and mechanically identical to a '73 RS Touring... which are fetching anything from £500k to £1M.
daveco said:
What do the majority of buyers do with these?
Tuck them away in air tight containers, wait for the price to increase, and then resell?
Haha or at the moment spend a fortune, lock them away and watch the market crash like the early 90's this cannot continue, pick up any one of the classic mags and you can see retails putting the prices of cars THEY CANNOT SELL up month on month.Tuck them away in air tight containers, wait for the price to increase, and then resell?
Its an alternate reality.
The 1975 2.7 Carrera in need of restoration was sold for crazy money, I agree. But its all relative. As I understand it is effectively the same car as the legendary RS touring of the early 70s but with the later and safer (and to my eyes slightly better looking) G series body. Same weight, performance and handling and the same mechanically fuel injected 2.7 flat 6. But the RS is more iconic and sells for north of £500K.
I just laugh at this.... Its just like the late 80'S and early 90'S
When F40's XJ 220 were going for £1,000,000 and then the ass fell out of investing in cars and they ended up being worthless at £90-£110k by 1998.
The dealers/sellers must be laughing all the way to the bank just now!
A few months ago I spoke to a few Porsche dealers/ independents as well as Ferrari sellers, and they all agree the cars are not worth anything like what people are paying for them.
But it good business just now, and as they say if you want to pay £45k for a £17K 964 or £200k for a £90k 360cs for example that up to you, but at the end of the day it will just do a full circle again and you'll end up with a negative equity car :-(
So just be careful what you buy! and for those of you who have an interesting vehicle just now this is probably a good time to sell to investors ...
Another interesting thing i have noticed while looking for cars are dealers are inflating prices on RHD specialist cars.
And the more you look in to it LHD Cars are worth more than RHD cars .. Fact
For example... a Porsche Merc BMW are always commanding a higher price in the UK as well as Europe (have a look)
But lets take Ferrari as example.
Ferrari are selling a RHD 430 Scud in the UK for 180+k but in Europe its 105+k..? yes its LHD but i thought LHD sell for more than RHD cars everywhere .....Not for hi end cars obviously, which is a little bit annoying.
.
Saying that a certain dealer beat me to a 430 Scud in France last month which was £104k and is re selling in the UK for £170+ so they are even trying to push the price up on LHD cars now.
Where will it end ?
When F40's XJ 220 were going for £1,000,000 and then the ass fell out of investing in cars and they ended up being worthless at £90-£110k by 1998.
The dealers/sellers must be laughing all the way to the bank just now!
A few months ago I spoke to a few Porsche dealers/ independents as well as Ferrari sellers, and they all agree the cars are not worth anything like what people are paying for them.
But it good business just now, and as they say if you want to pay £45k for a £17K 964 or £200k for a £90k 360cs for example that up to you, but at the end of the day it will just do a full circle again and you'll end up with a negative equity car :-(
So just be careful what you buy! and for those of you who have an interesting vehicle just now this is probably a good time to sell to investors ...
Another interesting thing i have noticed while looking for cars are dealers are inflating prices on RHD specialist cars.
And the more you look in to it LHD Cars are worth more than RHD cars .. Fact
For example... a Porsche Merc BMW are always commanding a higher price in the UK as well as Europe (have a look)
But lets take Ferrari as example.
Ferrari are selling a RHD 430 Scud in the UK for 180+k but in Europe its 105+k..? yes its LHD but i thought LHD sell for more than RHD cars everywhere .....Not for hi end cars obviously, which is a little bit annoying.
.
Saying that a certain dealer beat me to a 430 Scud in France last month which was £104k and is re selling in the UK for £170+ so they are even trying to push the price up on LHD cars now.
Where will it end ?
Not sure if it will go down seeing as there is more wealth in the world and a classic Ferrari or Porsche will be wanted in BRIC countries
I do wonder about the cold reality when the owner gets his 1984 Ferrari and looks at some of the details and thinks, "hmmmmmmmm" alone in the dehumidified garage. Still more fun than shares and life is short etc.
I do wonder about the cold reality when the owner gets his 1984 Ferrari and looks at some of the details and thinks, "hmmmmmmmm" alone in the dehumidified garage. Still more fun than shares and life is short etc.
Oddball RS said:
daveco said:
What do the majority of buyers do with these?
Tuck them away in air tight containers, wait for the price to increase, and then resell?
Haha or at the moment spend a fortune, lock them away and watch the market crash like the early 90's this cannot continue, pick up any one of the classic mags and you can see retails putting the prices of cars THEY CANNOT SELL up month on month.Tuck them away in air tight containers, wait for the price to increase, and then resell?
Its an alternate reality.
Per the comparison to the 90s, UBS/PwC has just published their "Billionaire Report". Amazingly they interviewed 1300 Billionaires who combined were worth a cool 5.4 trillion US dollars. 63% are self-made compared with nearer 40% 20 years ago. In the US the financial services sector is according to the FT "the dominant source of new fortune spawing 30% of self-made billionaires since 1995". And the new tech billionaires are worth an eye popping average of 7.8 billion US dollars each. What is key however is the massive growth in Asian wealth compared to 1990. Now 36% of the world's billionaires are from Asia and the report expects Asia to become the centre of new billionaire wealth creation.
Now, for those buying an F50, F40, 599 GTO, 458 SA and such like that sort of Asian prediction sounds just about ideal. Finite supply (especially limited edition models) and mega rich young entrepreneurs who are/will be entering the "big" car collection habit.
Who knows, but for good or bad, it's a different world.
Edited by Camlet on Thursday 28th May 09:06
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