Searching for my 1st Ultima
Discussion
Evening all
I am preparing for sale my 996 GT3 Clubsport with the intention of buying an Ultima.
I would love nothing more than to build my own and enjoy the personal creation, alas I don't have the time.
Looking at the Ultimas for sale, one appreciates the personal touch of an Ultima as I have not found two the same.
I am looking for some tips as where else I may search and hope that if someone is thinking of selling then it would be great to make contact. I am obviously looking for a nicely setup track car but I would like the comforts of a/c and a roof.
I'm not ruling anything out though. The Ultima concept fascinates me and I hope it is not too long until I can get behind the wheel and extend that grin.
Thanks in advance for your help
Gregory
I am preparing for sale my 996 GT3 Clubsport with the intention of buying an Ultima.
I would love nothing more than to build my own and enjoy the personal creation, alas I don't have the time.
Looking at the Ultimas for sale, one appreciates the personal touch of an Ultima as I have not found two the same.
I am looking for some tips as where else I may search and hope that if someone is thinking of selling then it would be great to make contact. I am obviously looking for a nicely setup track car but I would like the comforts of a/c and a roof.
I'm not ruling anything out though. The Ultima concept fascinates me and I hope it is not too long until I can get behind the wheel and extend that grin.
Thanks in advance for your help
Gregory
Also take advantage of visiting the factory. A ride in the car with either of the Marlow's will wet your appetite a bit. Can't promise that they will offer a ride since your in the secondary market but they obviously can point you towards the elements that make for a good build. My 10 cents worth is absolutely an LS motor, A.P. Brakes and air conditioning. The car can get a bit stuffy even at lower outside temp 60-70 without A.C. because of the lack of windows. 8 years with a GTR and I have loved every minute of it. Particularly when my GT2 friend announced reluctantly after a trip thru the hills of So Cal that my GTR would lay waste to his GT2 in every aspect except interior noise. Come on in the waters fine. Lee
Am I right in assuming that the LS being a fuel injected motor in practice is more reliable iro heat etc?
I have noted a couple of conversions from SBC to LS.
I get the a/c comment. When I bought my CS many were spec'd without but I get rather warm on a track day!
What's the theory on the shifter location? I note that some say it should be on the right hand side but I am aware that it takes more build time to get it into the middle.
I am desperate to get in the water! The thought of driving a Type C racer with a/c on track is awesome!
I have noted a couple of conversions from SBC to LS.
I get the a/c comment. When I bought my CS many were spec'd without but I get rather warm on a track day!
What's the theory on the shifter location? I note that some say it should be on the right hand side but I am aware that it takes more build time to get it into the middle.
I am desperate to get in the water! The thought of driving a Type C racer with a/c on track is awesome!
Hi Gregory
Take your time and do your research. I was in your position April last year and posted as you are doing. In my case having just retired I wanted to build a car. All the guys who posted a reply advised me buy a professionally but used car which I did.
I also have owned some seriously quick production cars such as a Porsche GT2, Audi RS6 etc, the Ultima is nothing like those cars in my opinion.
When choosing the spec of your car there are many different ways to go from the basic raw car that was originally designed to quite a sophisticated and more production like car. You also need to ask yourself if you want to change the car you settle for and if you will enjoy and have time to do the work yourself. If you don't then paying someone else to carry out the changes can prove expensive.
I'm glad I bought used because if I do get the chance to build in the future I would make many changes but most of those are just for my taste.
Regarding the engine I would definitely choose either an LS3 or LS7. In your case because you want to do track days it needs to be an LS7 with dry sump. An LS fuel injected motor is easier to live with if your going to use the car regularly. Also don't get caught out by the horsepower trap, these cars weigh just over 1000kgs. A standard LS7 has more than enough power and some have even fitted traction control as you can get wheel spin in 3rd gear in the dry.
The car I bought has a 5 speed Porsche gearbox with right hand shift. Originally I thought I would need to change it to the centre to be comfortable. But just as when you drive abroad you get used to a right hand change you quickly get used a right hand gear shift in an Ultima. Also the top of the gear knob is close to the steering wheel which feels great once you are used to it. Because the engine has so much torque you don't actually need a 6 speed box either.
Definitely come to Silverstone Classic and look at all the different cars there and speak to the owners. Also look at the cars for sale on Pistonheads and go and see a few. And finally look back on the forum at the different threads that may help you.
Roj
Take your time and do your research. I was in your position April last year and posted as you are doing. In my case having just retired I wanted to build a car. All the guys who posted a reply advised me buy a professionally but used car which I did.
I also have owned some seriously quick production cars such as a Porsche GT2, Audi RS6 etc, the Ultima is nothing like those cars in my opinion.
When choosing the spec of your car there are many different ways to go from the basic raw car that was originally designed to quite a sophisticated and more production like car. You also need to ask yourself if you want to change the car you settle for and if you will enjoy and have time to do the work yourself. If you don't then paying someone else to carry out the changes can prove expensive.
I'm glad I bought used because if I do get the chance to build in the future I would make many changes but most of those are just for my taste.
Regarding the engine I would definitely choose either an LS3 or LS7. In your case because you want to do track days it needs to be an LS7 with dry sump. An LS fuel injected motor is easier to live with if your going to use the car regularly. Also don't get caught out by the horsepower trap, these cars weigh just over 1000kgs. A standard LS7 has more than enough power and some have even fitted traction control as you can get wheel spin in 3rd gear in the dry.
The car I bought has a 5 speed Porsche gearbox with right hand shift. Originally I thought I would need to change it to the centre to be comfortable. But just as when you drive abroad you get used to a right hand change you quickly get used a right hand gear shift in an Ultima. Also the top of the gear knob is close to the steering wheel which feels great once you are used to it. Because the engine has so much torque you don't actually need a 6 speed box either.
Definitely come to Silverstone Classic and look at all the different cars there and speak to the owners. Also look at the cars for sale on Pistonheads and go and see a few. And finally look back on the forum at the different threads that may help you.
Roj
You mention that the vehicle you are looking for would be used on the track. I think you need to ask yourself how much track time compared to road. If track comes over the road then you need to consider rose-joint suspension, etc. The choice of an LS engine is the way to go, not unless you like to spend time adjusting carbs and enjoy the smell of raw petrol, etc. Guess a visit to Silverstone and talk with the owners should provide plenty of answers to the questions you have. A chat with Ted and Richard would also be a good idea.
P.S. Which 996 GT3 do you have? 1st or 2nd GEN?
Edited to add the PS
P.S. Which 996 GT3 do you have? 1st or 2nd GEN?
Edited to add the PS
Edited by UltimaCH on Thursday 23 July 09:16
Am I right in thinking that an lS needs to be modified to be a proper dry sump as it has only one pick up?
500bhp in 950kg will be plenty to keep me occupied for years on track progressively becoming proficient. I take your point with regards to suspension. I have been running a JRZ adjustable setup on my GT3.
My GT3 is a Mark II Clubsport. It came out of the factory with ceramics but I run it with Alcon's all round (362mm front) and Pagid RS29. Given the 1350kg weight she has done stopping power!
There is a great debate between the MKI and MKII. My view is the MKII is clearly a more capable car but it wasn't technically the first GT3.
500bhp in 950kg will be plenty to keep me occupied for years on track progressively becoming proficient. I take your point with regards to suspension. I have been running a JRZ adjustable setup on my GT3.
My GT3 is a Mark II Clubsport. It came out of the factory with ceramics but I run it with Alcon's all round (362mm front) and Pagid RS29. Given the 1350kg weight she has done stopping power!
There is a great debate between the MKI and MKII. My view is the MKII is clearly a more capable car but it wasn't technically the first GT3.
You won't get 950kg wet with ac and other goodies. Dry maybe, depends on spec.
An LS7 std dry sump is more than adequate for track days, you don't need anything more unless you go for slicks.
There is a big difference in on track capability between a well sorted GT3 and Ultima, it's probably not dissimilar between a GT3 and a hot hatch. You may struggle with brake feel, GT3s on RS29s are great, Ultimas may feel a bit wooden, but you get used to it.
How much are you looking to spend.
An LS7 std dry sump is more than adequate for track days, you don't need anything more unless you go for slicks.
There is a big difference in on track capability between a well sorted GT3 and Ultima, it's probably not dissimilar between a GT3 and a hot hatch. You may struggle with brake feel, GT3s on RS29s are great, Ultimas may feel a bit wooden, but you get used to it.
How much are you looking to spend.
Edited by deadscoob on Thursday 23 July 22:27
Firstly thanks to those who withstood the best of British Summer weather at the Classic so that I was able to ask questions about ownership and setup.
@ Racingroj - your insight was great thanks and given your angle and path to the Ultima, it was especially relevant for my goals. What was most of interest was pitching the usability of the Ultima between a true road legal race car (Radical SR3) and a GT3 Clubsport.
@ Deadscoob - iro budget, without sounding to blasaie it's more of an understanding of what you get for your investment. I am not going to build as I don't have the time (work and a 2year old). I need to have some conversations with the factory to understand what £60k+ gets you. After this I can evaluate the non professional build v better value on component upgrades. All of this is in the car next of what do I need.
The yellow GTR looks good with an LS2, tbh that's enough power for me but its a wet sump. I need to work out if and at what cost the LS2 and LS3 units can be factory converted with dry sump kits.
There really is so much to evaluate. Unlike Porsche which I am more familiar with, there doesn't seem to be a 'tuning house' where on can get one stop upgrade and setup.
I use 9excellence for my Turbo and it just pops out the other end!
Thanks for baring with me chaps, I hope not to exhaust your patience and willingness to help.
Thanks again
@ Racingroj - your insight was great thanks and given your angle and path to the Ultima, it was especially relevant for my goals. What was most of interest was pitching the usability of the Ultima between a true road legal race car (Radical SR3) and a GT3 Clubsport.
@ Deadscoob - iro budget, without sounding to blasaie it's more of an understanding of what you get for your investment. I am not going to build as I don't have the time (work and a 2year old). I need to have some conversations with the factory to understand what £60k+ gets you. After this I can evaluate the non professional build v better value on component upgrades. All of this is in the car next of what do I need.
The yellow GTR looks good with an LS2, tbh that's enough power for me but its a wet sump. I need to work out if and at what cost the LS2 and LS3 units can be factory converted with dry sump kits.
There really is so much to evaluate. Unlike Porsche which I am more familiar with, there doesn't seem to be a 'tuning house' where on can get one stop upgrade and setup.
I use 9excellence for my Turbo and it just pops out the other end!
Thanks for baring with me chaps, I hope not to exhaust your patience and willingness to help.
Thanks again
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