Wednesday 12th August 2015

Escort versus Porsche 911: Time For Coffee?

Nipping at the heels of giants, in an RS1600 Escort

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This video's got it all. Hero cars, legendary drivers and a high-revving BDA soundtrack. All set to the backdrop of a sunny August's day at the old 'Northloop'.

The Escort fast enough to trouble Porsches

You're onboard with Olaf Manthey. Not only is he a certified 'ringmeister' and acknowledged Porsche expert (Manthey Racing have won the N24 and competed at WEC so successfully that Porsche took a majority stake in his company in 2013), but he's also a hell of a driver. And he started in Fords.

What you're looking at it is one of the many battles between the top three cars of the four-hour Nurburgring Trophy at last weekend's Oldtimer Grand Prix. The two yellow Porsche 911s ahead (an RSR and RS, respectively) are also fighting for the podium.

Despite the Frank Stippler-piloted #240 911 Carrera RS clocking a staggering 8min 06sec full lap, the fastest of the whole race, it would eventually finish third overall. The Brits in car #238, a 911 Carrera RSR, Mark Bates and Sean McInerney would lift the trophy.

And this Ruddel Motorsport Escort RS1600, boasting "upto 250hp and only 830kg", split them down the middle, taking the second step on the overall podium and winning its own class at the same time.

An epic effort by all involved, we think you'll agree. Enjoy!

 

 

[V8RX7]

I'm unsure which is more impressive splitting 911's or making 250bhp from a 1600 Ford.

I had an NA Cosworth built by Warrior which made 260bhp but that was a 2.4 !

[300bhp/ton]

Is that a proper Escort, live axle and leaf springs or is it basically a modern drivetrain with coil overs, independent suspension and the like, just happening to sit in an old body shell?

[GWADD]

It's an RS1600 with a 2 litre BD engine.

All old school homologated car .....

[aeropilot]

V8RX7 said:

I'm unsure which is more impressive splitting 911's or making 250bhp from a 1600 Ford.

I had an NA Cosworth built by Warrior which made 260bhp but that was a 2.4 !

Because it is most likely not 1600, it will be a 2.0 BDA/BDG.

The RS1600 was originally homologated at 1601cc to enable 2.0 engines to be run in racing/rallying.

[aeropilot]

300bhp/ton said:

Is that a proper Escort, live axle and leaf springs or is it basically a modern drivetrain with coil overs, independent suspension and the like, just happening to sit in an old body shell?

It will be as per original to comply with historic regs, so yes, struts on front, live axle in back (might be able to run the Group 6 coil setup though rather than leaf springs perhaps?) Depends on the regs.

[daytona365]

A 250 bhp escort 1600 ? Completely stock then ?

[jamespink]

Thats one ferocious Escort and amazing it split the Porsches but I would have thought the North loop is far from the ideal track for it (aero/gearing etc) whereas the 911s were designed for it (as the vid shows). Around the short circuit at Brands or Lydden the Escort would have probably murdered them.

[xRIEx]

daytona365 said:

A 250 bhp escort 1600 ? Completely stock then ?

article said:

the top three cars of the four-hour Nurburgring Trophy at last weekend's Oldtimer Grand Prix.

article said:

Ruddel Motorsport Escort RS1600

I assume most production-based race cars undergo some sort of modification along the way.

I don't notice any suggestion that it's a standard Escort.

[RB Will]

The thing I find most disturbing is that a well prepped race car driven by a Ring expert is 20-30secs a lap slower than a standard modern hot hatch with a lower power/weight ratio.

[aeropilot]

daytona365 said:

A 250 bhp escort 1600 ? Completely stock then ?

No different to the 911's then, which will be equally modified as per their homologation of the day.

The Escort and 911 of the era were well matched in both race, rally & rallycross spec, and traded wins in equal measure.

[Whitean3]

RB Will said:

The thing I find most disturbing is that a well prepped race car driven by a Ring expert is 20-30secs a lap slower than a standard modern hot hatch with a lower power/weight ratio.

You are comparing Bridge to Gantry times versus a full lap (which is 1 mile longer; probably about 25-35 seconds)- big difference!

Edited by Whitean3 on Wednesday 12th August 16:02

[Zad]

That sound though

It reminds me of the soundtrack to C'etait Une Rendezvous. Clearly totally different engines, but it has the same hard note of a great engine which is being totally maxed out.

[engineer666]

Full spec of the RS Escort is in the for sale link below.

https://racecarsdirect.com/Advert/Details/60369/fo...

[civiclegend]

Nope its full lap vs full lap! Such is the march of progress.

[V8RX7]

aeropilot said:

V8RX7 said:

I'm unsure which is more impressive splitting 911's or making 250bhp from a 1600 Ford.

I had an NA Cosworth built by Warrior which made 260bhp but that was a 2.4 !

Because it is most likely not 1600, it will be a 2.0 BDA/BDG.

The RS1600 was originally homologated at 1601cc to enable 2.0 engines to be run in racing/rallying.

Taken from a link further down the thread:

"The BDA engine has a motor capacity of 1803ccm. 245HP"

Still very impressive.

[aeropilot]

V8RX7 said:

Taken from a link further down the thread:

"The BDA engine has a motor capacity of 1803ccm. 245HP"

Still very impressive.

Very odd though, that you'd run a 1800 BDA rather than a 2.0. I'm guessing early iron block engine although.........I wonder if it's actually a BDT engine without the turbo, rather than a BDA....as the original RS200 BDT in road going trim was 1803cc

And from that link, it's probably a translation thing, but WTF is "triple Weber double carb" supposed to mean

[_Leg_]

My road going '72 Escort RS1600 BDA recently rolling roaded at 170bhp up at Bogg Bros. Race and rally prepped ones exceed 200bhp without much difficulty.

[williamp]

As a boy I remember the Scalextric comic had a rally between the good guys (Escort) and the baddies (911). The escort won that, too...

[aeropilot]

Just watched the video as couldn't access it at work earlier. Not sure he had the right gearing for the 'ring. Had to giggle when he was flat in 5th on the straight (about 1:50 in the clip) and went to grab 6th gear that he didn't have

[RB Will]

Whitean3 said:

RB Will said:

The thing I find most disturbing is that a well prepped race car driven by a Ring expert is 20-30secs a lap slower than a standard modern hot hatch with a lower power/weight ratio.

You are comparing Bridge to Gantry times versus a full lap (which is 1 mile longer; probably about 25-35 seconds)- big difference!

Edited by Whitean3 on Wednesday 12th August 16:02

No I'm not. full lap for hot hatches start at 7.50something, the escort in the vid does about an 8.25