RE: Porsche not perfect shocker: PH Blog

RE: Porsche not perfect shocker: PH Blog

Tuesday 18th August 2015

Porsche not perfect shocker: PH Blog

Why the 911 GTS might not actually be perfect and why Porsche isn't helping the situation



I've been lucky enough to spend a few days driving about in the Porsche 911 GTS you see here. But when I Tweeted that it might not actually be all that a right old can of worms opened. "Mushy steering, stubbornly inert chassis, pointlessly stiff suspension ... am I the only one not loving the GTS?" I said.

'Journo disses Porsche' shocker!
'Journo disses Porsche' shocker!
Some seemed to think I was some sort of champion of free speech for being the first journalist to dare 'say it how it is' and criticise a Porsche. Others that the only reason for possibly finding fault in such a perfect car was inability to drive it properly. One inescapable conclusion was that Porsche makes it very difficult to compare seemingly like-for-like cars, thanks to the huge range of options and their subsequent influence on the way it drives. Porsche isn't the only one either - see Audi and the variety of suspension and powertrain options on RS models.

This whole 'choice' thing is much overrated in my book and only serves to confuse matters. My new chippy has a very Yorkshire solution to the problem of being stuck behind some idiot ordering 'special' this or 'extra large' that. It serves haddock (one size) and chips, ordered - and enjoyed - in the multiples required. No mucking about, get in, get out, everyone knows what they're having and it tastes lovely. Absolutely no room for confusion.

But there are so many variables with the GTS that the two-wheel drive one I had, including optional PASM Sport suspension, PDK and its £170 colour coded key (yes, really) could be completely different from the one the bloke on Twitter was saying was 'intoxicating'. Outwardly they'd look pretty much identical. They'd wear the same badge. But depending on the options we could actually be attempting to compare cars with very different chassis and powertrain components. And subsequently very different behaviour, especially when you factor in different driving modes and their influence on throttle, steering, differential, gearshifts, active engine mounts and more.

Options spend influences more than price
Options spend influences more than price
Even a Cayman S can be specced with six wheels of varying size and weights, different steering, a choice of three suspension settings and with or without torque vectoring and a mechanical locking diff - just think how differently two cars with extremes of these options packages could drive. And what a minefield this leaves a few years down the line for those shopping in the classifieds.

It's like saying 'I love fish'n'chips' to a man who likes his cod with the skin on and fried in vegetable oil when in fact I'm talking about haddock fried - properly in my book - in beef dripping. We're both talking about fish'n'chips. But we're not comparing like with like.

Back on topic I'm not advocating a return to the Henry Ford days of 'any colour you like as long as it's black' but I don't think manufacturers are doing us any favours by offering customers options that so dramatically impact on the dynamic behaviour of the car. It certainly makes objective comparisons - formal in the media or informally between owners - ever more challenging.

More on this in due course...

Dan

 

Photos: Stuart Price

Author
Discussion

CDP

Original Poster:

7,454 posts

253 months

Tuesday 18th August 2015
quotequote all
Beef dripping every time.

boyse7en

6,671 posts

164 months

Tuesday 18th August 2015
quotequote all
The Dichotomy of Choice - the more options you have, the more likely you are to think that you made the wrong choice and be dissatisfied your product

caymanbill

378 posts

134 months

Tuesday 18th August 2015
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Surely it's up to the expert car journalist, who drives these things for a living to make an informed opinion based purely on the car he's been given? regardless of options ticked? One would assume that manufactures will give the press what they view to be the pick of the bunch usually.

"This car has XYZ options and it was still crap. Your milage may vary... " Nuff said.

Mermaid

21,492 posts

170 months

Tuesday 18th August 2015
quotequote all
A GTS 2Wd or 4WD, Ceramics or not - imparts a different feeling, perhaps like the Turbo S, all should feature Ceramics but unlike the Turbo all GTS's should be 2wd. wink

Manual or PDK? Gets confusing for sure.

The 4S is available for those who require AWD.

PhantomPH

4,043 posts

224 months

Tuesday 18th August 2015
quotequote all
In my book, car options should be purely cosmetic only. A Porsche GTS should be a Porsche GTS for everyone who buys it - and then if we want to add nav, electric this or that, blue dials, pink headlining...have at it!

To extreme this logic, surely Porsche (or any manufacturer) could just sell one car and then have a HUGE options list.

"I'd like a Porsche 911, please"
"Certainly sir - base price is £50.00 now just start ticking those boxes until you run out of cash"

Think of it like the 'make your own pizza' counter in your local ASDA. You have one or two bases and then you add and pay for whatever you want on top.

What you really have to ask yourself is 'what really IS a 911 GTS?'. Really, it's just a badge - a plain pizza base on which any old fool can add enough of a combination of toppings to end up with an awesome creation or a nasty tasting mess.

SirSquidalot

4,039 posts

164 months

Tuesday 18th August 2015
quotequote all
Porsche are guilty of stuffing press cars with options, but then again aren't all manufacturers?

Cars should be tested on the base spec sold that way we get a benchmark.

Here's an example of how just 1 option can confuse things.

A base GTS is £ 91,098.00 incl. VAT

A Carrera S with PDK is £ 85,933.00 incl. VAT

But due to the option of the gearbox the Carrera S is quicker in acceleration and a few grand cheaper. Doesn't make the base model GTS look good value does it?

Joe public mostly care about stats and a base model GTS just wouldn't add up compared to a Carrera S with a few boxes ticked.

See table, Carrera S on left and GTS on right:


Rowley Birkin

26,271 posts

221 months

Tuesday 18th August 2015
quotequote all
Ah, you got the wrong model Dan. What you needed was the 997 GTS.

Axionknight

8,505 posts

134 months

Tuesday 18th August 2015
quotequote all
PhantomPH said:
To extreme this logic, surely Porsche (or any manufacturer) could just sell one car and then have a HUGE options list.

"I'd like a Porsche 911, please"
"Certainly sir - base price is £50.00 now just start ticking those boxes until you run out of cash"
(Quote snipped).

That is basically what Porsche do anyway.

Dale487

1,334 posts

122 months

Tuesday 18th August 2015
quotequote all
PhantomPH said:
In my book, car options should be purely cosmetic only. A Porsche GTS should be a Porsche GTS for everyone who buys it - and then if we want to add nav, electric this or that, blue dials, pink headlining...have at it!

To extreme this logic, surely Porsche (or any manufacturer) could just sell one car and then have a HUGE options list.

"I'd like a Porsche 911, please"
"Certainly sir - base price is £50.00 now just start ticking those boxes until you run out of cash"

Think of it like the 'make your own pizza' counter in your local ASDA. You have one or two bases and then you add and pay for whatever you want on top.

What you really have to ask yourself is 'what really IS a 911 GTS?'. Really, it's just a badge - a plain pizza base on which any old fool can add enough of a combination of toppings to end up with an awesome creation or a nasty tasting mess.
& just like pizza, with sports cars less is more.

Keep it true to its original formula (pizza & sports cars)- simple & don't put too much on it

So what is the sports car option list item that is equivalent to ham & pineapple - ie just wrong & ruins it all, dynamic steering?


Mermaid

21,492 posts

170 months

Tuesday 18th August 2015
quotequote all
Rowley Birkin said:
Ah, you got the wrong model Dan. What you needed was the 997 GTS.
997 2GTS manual with optional LSD. Guards red.

Dale487

1,334 posts

122 months

Tuesday 18th August 2015
quotequote all
Mermaid said:
Rowley Birkin said:
Ah, you got the wrong model Dan. What you needed was the 997 GTS.
997 2GTS manual with optional LSD. Guards red.
Or to keep the pizza analogy going - a Margareta

Housey

2,076 posts

226 months

Tuesday 18th August 2015
quotequote all
I drove a blue one and that was much better. The blue is a counterbalanced paint and they use a carbon ceramic gloss finish, which aids the aero and tightens up the bass...I mean steering. If you put it on rubber and then put bricks on the roof the sound becomes amazingly tight and the 'stage' is much more involving. You also need to add the special inderconnects option and some serious rubber squash balls to make the experience more visceral.

RobM77

35,349 posts

233 months

Tuesday 18th August 2015
quotequote all
I've been down this road before - I spent a while saving for a Cayman S, went to test drive one and was sorely dissapointed. I posted on PH, and after sifting through the insults, lots of people were saying that I needed PASM and this and that option, so I found a car with those options at another OPC and went and drove that one. It was a bit different and a bit better, but the core essence of the car that left me cold was still leaving me cold. Different cars for different people I guess; I can see why people like them, but they're not for me. I look forward to seeing what you conclude about the GTS smile

Monty Python

4,812 posts

196 months

Tuesday 18th August 2015
quotequote all
I don't know what all the fuss is about - everybody is different and will assess a car using different criteria. Witness the differing opinion around run-flat tyres..

Housey

2,076 posts

226 months

Tuesday 18th August 2015
quotequote all
RobM77 said:
I've been down this road before - I spent a while saving for a Cayman S, went to test drive one and was sorely dissapointed. I posted on PH, and after sifting through the insults, lots of people were saying that I needed PASM and this and that option, so I found a car with those options at another OPC and went and drove that one. It was a bit different and a bit better, but the core essence of the car that left me cold was still leaving me cold. Different cars for different people I guess; I can see why people like them, but they're not for me. I look forward to seeing what you conclude about the GTS smile
When people got out of my 996 GT3 they were glad they had not died but most swore never to go near it again just in case the WW1 shakes came back, telling me it was undriveable as a road car, how such feedback was "too much". They would then get back in their computer controlled everythings and their smiles would return. As you say, each to their own, no right and wrong when it comes to experience, it's mostly subjective bks from the mouths of idiots like us lot biggrin

Housey

2,076 posts

226 months

Tuesday 18th August 2015
quotequote all
Monty Python said:
I don't know what all the fuss is about - everybody is different and will assess a car using different criteria. Witness the differing opinion around run-flat tyres..
Yea....well except the tyres thing, they are ste.

RobM77

35,349 posts

233 months

Tuesday 18th August 2015
quotequote all
Housey said:
RobM77 said:
I've been down this road before - I spent a while saving for a Cayman S, went to test drive one and was sorely dissapointed. I posted on PH, and after sifting through the insults, lots of people were saying that I needed PASM and this and that option, so I found a car with those options at another OPC and went and drove that one. It was a bit different and a bit better, but the core essence of the car that left me cold was still leaving me cold. Different cars for different people I guess; I can see why people like them, but they're not for me. I look forward to seeing what you conclude about the GTS smile
When people got out of my 996 GT3 they were glad they had not died but most swore never to go near it again just in case the WW1 shakes came back, telling me it was undriveable as a road car, how such feedback was "too much". They would then get back in their computer controlled everythings and their smiles would return. As you say, each to their own, no right and wrong when it comes to experience, it's mostly subjective bks from the mouths of idiots like us lot biggrin
Thanks, that re-affirms my faith in Porsche. smile It was the lack of feedback and involvement that left me cold about the Cayman, and I've often hoped that the GTn models would be more to my taste. Straight after those two test drives I looked at getting a 996 GT3 mk1 for about £40k - shame I didn't! biggrin

Vee12V

1,329 posts

159 months

Tuesday 18th August 2015
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I'm surprised it took you this long to find out. Modern disease of German cars in particular.

T1berious

2,242 posts

154 months

Tuesday 18th August 2015
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I'm dreading when the time comes when I can finally get my grubby mitts on an approved used 981 Cayman S, if only because the options that "you" think would be essential might be "Meh" for the original owner.

PASM, NAV, Chrono pack, Sports exhaust and then there's the daft things "Body colour wing mirrors" WTF? Doesn't it come with that as standard?

Then you have to have the adjustable suspension, PDK etc....

Looking forward to a buyers guide as my head hurts...


Housey

2,076 posts

226 months

Tuesday 18th August 2015
quotequote all
To be fare the Cayman GTS with correct sports suspension was superb, so go figure.