New breed of GT3 owner
Discussion
I think I must be one of the much maligned 'New Breed' GT3 owners, I've had my car since June 14 and never tracked it as frankly I'm too concerned about it getting damaged by either me or another track user. I'm not overly concerned by the mileage (currently just over 8,000) but I do wonder why so many cars are for sale on PH with ridiculously low miles. I use mine every day, to and from work, the shops etc. I'm not too concerned with residuals, I'm used to losing money on cars, I lost £30k on my Cayenne S diesel in 18 months.
Mine is comfort spec with PCCBs, lift, leather, carbon etc.(oh, and red stitching!!) which I'm very happy with as I'm not a track jockey but I do prefer the feel of the PCCBs and they do look rather cool - sad I know.
My car is currently at the OPC for warranty work (minute hand of the chrono clock fell off!!)and a campaign on the lift system, I've be loaned a 991 CS2 with a manual box and here's my main point - I really can't understand why anyone would choose a manual 7 speed over the pdk, if feels totally archaic to me, most modern race cars, to my knowledge, have semi-auto boxes so why do purists still want a manual? Surely if you want this type of car buy an old one without all the technology and enjoy.
The GT3 is my first 911, I've previously owned several R8's both manual and R Tronic (which was nowhere as good as the pdk) so do have previous experience of this type of car.
I know I'm going to get shot to pieces here but I just don't get it, perhaps this is why I'm a 'New Breed'!
Mine is comfort spec with PCCBs, lift, leather, carbon etc.(oh, and red stitching!!) which I'm very happy with as I'm not a track jockey but I do prefer the feel of the PCCBs and they do look rather cool - sad I know.
My car is currently at the OPC for warranty work (minute hand of the chrono clock fell off!!)and a campaign on the lift system, I've be loaned a 991 CS2 with a manual box and here's my main point - I really can't understand why anyone would choose a manual 7 speed over the pdk, if feels totally archaic to me, most modern race cars, to my knowledge, have semi-auto boxes so why do purists still want a manual? Surely if you want this type of car buy an old one without all the technology and enjoy.
The GT3 is my first 911, I've previously owned several R8's both manual and R Tronic (which was nowhere as good as the pdk) so do have previous experience of this type of car.
I know I'm going to get shot to pieces here but I just don't get it, perhaps this is why I'm a 'New Breed'!
I don't get why people want to drive automatcs, it is what it is and hence a choice, unless you want a 991 GT3 and of course no choice then.
People normally sell cars for 2 reasons, money and just getting board, I can understand both with the 991 GT3, it's gone up so you can make £40k and it's an automatic so dull. :-)
Saying that as transport to get to work and nip out it's a nice car and if you bought it list then free motoring for 3 years and still £20k in your pocket. + the Porsche hand out because of the engines.
2nd hand in a few years imo the cars will be BIG hassle, 127 ECU's, RWS, Lift etc etc that's a lot to go wrong on top of electric seats, AC, PCM which always fails in time.
People normally sell cars for 2 reasons, money and just getting board, I can understand both with the 991 GT3, it's gone up so you can make £40k and it's an automatic so dull. :-)
Saying that as transport to get to work and nip out it's a nice car and if you bought it list then free motoring for 3 years and still £20k in your pocket. + the Porsche hand out because of the engines.
2nd hand in a few years imo the cars will be BIG hassle, 127 ECU's, RWS, Lift etc etc that's a lot to go wrong on top of electric seats, AC, PCM which always fails in time.
"I don't get why people want to drive automatcs, it is what it is and hence a choice, unless you want a 991 GT3 and of course no choice then.
People normally sell cars for 2 reasons, money and just getting board, I can understand both with the 991 GT3, it's gone up so you can make £40k and it's an automatic so dull. :-) "
I didn't realize there was a manual option on the 458...or the McLaren.
Neither of them have gone up £40k either.
People normally sell cars for 2 reasons, money and just getting board, I can understand both with the 991 GT3, it's gone up so you can make £40k and it's an automatic so dull. :-) "
I didn't realize there was a manual option on the 458...or the McLaren.
Neither of them have gone up £40k either.
berty37 said:
"I don't get why people want to drive automatcs, it is what it is and hence a choice, unless you want a 991 GT3 and of course no choice then.
People normally sell cars for 2 reasons, money and just getting board, I can understand both with the 991 GT3, it's gone up so you can make £40k and it's an automatic so dull. :-) "
I didn't realize there was a manual option on the 458...or the McLaren.
Neither of them have gone up £40k either.
not sure what a 458...or the McLaren has to do with the OP's post or mine !People normally sell cars for 2 reasons, money and just getting board, I can understand both with the 991 GT3, it's gone up so you can make £40k and it's an automatic so dull. :-) "
I didn't realize there was a manual option on the 458...or the McLaren.
Neither of them have gone up £40k either.
They are what they are also.
PorscheGT4 said:
berty37 said:
"I don't get why people want to drive automatcs, it is what it is and hence a choice, unless you want a 991 GT3 and of course no choice then.
People normally sell cars for 2 reasons, money and just getting board, I can understand both with the 991 GT3, it's gone up so you can make £40k and it's an automatic so dull. :-) "
I didn't realize there was a manual option on the 458...or the McLaren.
Neither of them have gone up £40k either.
not sure what a 458...or the McLaren has to do with the OP's post or mine !People normally sell cars for 2 reasons, money and just getting board, I can understand both with the 991 GT3, it's gone up so you can make £40k and it's an automatic so dull. :-) "
I didn't realize there was a manual option on the 458...or the McLaren.
Neither of them have gone up £40k either.
They are what they are also.
To the OP - you have a wonderful car. There are people that will never like the 991 GT3 purely because there is no 3rd pedal - to me in Porsche's track orientated 911 it was long overdue to put in a paddle shift double clutch transmission and it is generally considered to be one of the best ones out there. I really do hope that when the 991.2 GT3 is announced that Andreas Preuninger has convinced the board to allow him to make a manual option too - just purely to see what the take up will be. I guess though people will then say oh its not now because of manual its because the steering isnt hydraulic or it has rear wheel steer.
Edited by berty37 on Thursday 20th August 09:19
You say you can't understand why folks choose manual over PDK - if that's a question, let me try to answer it.
I don't like the car deciding what gear I'm in. For example, if it changes gear mid-corner that can cause instability. Or if I'm on a slippery road I might want to keep it in third rather than have it decide to kick down to second when I get on the gas. OK I could put it in self-select mode and drive it like a clutch-less manual and address some of that (but not the kick-down issue BTW on the standard cars - GT3 might be different).
I've invested a lot of time in the skills required to drive a manual, heel-toe shifts, transitioning from left-foot braking to right-foot braking to change gear etc. Also in the roadcraft around planning what gear to be in. I enjoy using those skills. I want to be the one driving the car, not the computer, because that's part of the fun for me.
I have been loaned a number of PDK cars and they are an engineering marvel. The gearboxes are strong, smooth, quick, the launch control is a hoot. They are quicker. They let you carry more speed into corners for less effort as you can be more focused on braking and steering without having to change gear. They are easier to drive around town or in slow moving motorway traffic. I've always had fun in them but always been glad to hand them back. They are just missing something. It's hard to put a finger on it. I think because changing gear manually for me is part of the fun, in its absence I have to work harder at the other aspects of driving to get the same amount of fun out the car. Something from the experience seems missing and out of balance and that leaves me feeling strangely cold.
But that's just me.
BTW I think the 991 GT3 is epic, one of the most astonishing cars around. It's probably the easiest 911 ever built to use on the track. On the one hand, I really appreciate the engineering that has gone into making that possible. On the other hand, I don't want my track car to flatter my driving. I want something that's transparent and raw, that rewards me for understanding it and working with it and shows up my mistakes so I can improve. I'm interested in developing speed through smoothness and efficiency and not in going fast simply because the car itself is so capable. So it's not just about the PDK - it's all the other electronic trickery that goes with it that often causes issues to folks like me that prefer a manual.
BTW - I think it's great that you use your GT3 every day. Do try to get it on the circuit if you can - you'll love it. If you are nervous about something going wrong there are tracks you can use that are very quiet and have big run-offs and pro coaches who'll be glad to take you out and help you develop. You'll learn a lot about your car - and yourself
I don't like the car deciding what gear I'm in. For example, if it changes gear mid-corner that can cause instability. Or if I'm on a slippery road I might want to keep it in third rather than have it decide to kick down to second when I get on the gas. OK I could put it in self-select mode and drive it like a clutch-less manual and address some of that (but not the kick-down issue BTW on the standard cars - GT3 might be different).
I've invested a lot of time in the skills required to drive a manual, heel-toe shifts, transitioning from left-foot braking to right-foot braking to change gear etc. Also in the roadcraft around planning what gear to be in. I enjoy using those skills. I want to be the one driving the car, not the computer, because that's part of the fun for me.
I have been loaned a number of PDK cars and they are an engineering marvel. The gearboxes are strong, smooth, quick, the launch control is a hoot. They are quicker. They let you carry more speed into corners for less effort as you can be more focused on braking and steering without having to change gear. They are easier to drive around town or in slow moving motorway traffic. I've always had fun in them but always been glad to hand them back. They are just missing something. It's hard to put a finger on it. I think because changing gear manually for me is part of the fun, in its absence I have to work harder at the other aspects of driving to get the same amount of fun out the car. Something from the experience seems missing and out of balance and that leaves me feeling strangely cold.
But that's just me.
BTW I think the 991 GT3 is epic, one of the most astonishing cars around. It's probably the easiest 911 ever built to use on the track. On the one hand, I really appreciate the engineering that has gone into making that possible. On the other hand, I don't want my track car to flatter my driving. I want something that's transparent and raw, that rewards me for understanding it and working with it and shows up my mistakes so I can improve. I'm interested in developing speed through smoothness and efficiency and not in going fast simply because the car itself is so capable. So it's not just about the PDK - it's all the other electronic trickery that goes with it that often causes issues to folks like me that prefer a manual.
BTW - I think it's great that you use your GT3 every day. Do try to get it on the circuit if you can - you'll love it. If you are nervous about something going wrong there are tracks you can use that are very quiet and have big run-offs and pro coaches who'll be glad to take you out and help you develop. You'll learn a lot about your car - and yourself
jh001ace said:
I think I must be one of the much maligned 'New Breed' GT3 owners, I've had my car since June 14 and never tracked it as frankly I'm too concerned about it getting damaged by either me or another track user. I'm not overly concerned by the mileage (currently just over 8,000) but I do wonder why so many cars are for sale on PH with ridiculously low miles. I use mine every day, to and from work, the shops etc. I'm not too concerned with residuals, I'm used to losing money on cars, I lost £30k on my Cayenne S diesel in 18 months.
Mine is comfort spec with PCCBs, lift, leather, carbon etc.(oh, and red stitching!!) which I'm very happy with as I'm not a track jockey but I do prefer the feel of the PCCBs and they do look rather cool - sad I know.
My car is currently at the OPC for warranty work (minute hand of the chrono clock fell off!!)and a campaign on the lift system, I've be loaned a 991 CS2 with a manual box and here's my main point - I really can't understand why anyone would choose a manual 7 speed over the pdk, if feels totally archaic to me, most modern race cars, to my knowledge, have semi-auto boxes so why do purists still want a manual? Surely if you want this type of car buy an old one without all the technology and enjoy.
The GT3 is my first 911, I've previously owned several R8's both manual and R Tronic (which was nowhere as good as the pdk) so do have previous experience of this type of car.
I know I'm going to get shot to pieces here but I just don't get it, perhaps this is why I'm a 'New Breed'!
So long as it floats your boat, makes you smile and each trip is a varying degree of fun, then I would not give a dam what anyone else thinks, its a car, a great car at that, use it how YOU want Mine is comfort spec with PCCBs, lift, leather, carbon etc.(oh, and red stitching!!) which I'm very happy with as I'm not a track jockey but I do prefer the feel of the PCCBs and they do look rather cool - sad I know.
My car is currently at the OPC for warranty work (minute hand of the chrono clock fell off!!)and a campaign on the lift system, I've be loaned a 991 CS2 with a manual box and here's my main point - I really can't understand why anyone would choose a manual 7 speed over the pdk, if feels totally archaic to me, most modern race cars, to my knowledge, have semi-auto boxes so why do purists still want a manual? Surely if you want this type of car buy an old one without all the technology and enjoy.
The GT3 is my first 911, I've previously owned several R8's both manual and R Tronic (which was nowhere as good as the pdk) so do have previous experience of this type of car.
I know I'm going to get shot to pieces here but I just don't get it, perhaps this is why I'm a 'New Breed'!
jh001ace said:
I think I must be one of the much maligned 'New Breed' GT3 owners, I've had my car since June 14 and never tracked it as frankly I'm too concerned about it getting damaged by either me or another track user. I'm not overly concerned by the mileage (currently just over 8,000) but I do wonder why so many cars are for sale on PH with ridiculously low miles. I use mine every day, to and from work, the shops etc. I'm not too concerned with residuals, I'm used to losing money on cars, I lost £30k on my Cayenne S diesel in 18 months.
Mine is comfort spec with PCCBs, lift, leather, carbon etc.(oh, and red stitching!!) which I'm very happy with as I'm not a track jockey but I do prefer the feel of the PCCBs and they do look rather cool - sad I know.
My car is currently at the OPC for warranty work (minute hand of the chrono clock fell off!!)and a campaign on the lift system, I've be loaned a 991 CS2 with a manual box and here's my main point - I really can't understand why anyone would choose a manual 7 speed over the pdk, if feels totally archaic to me, most modern race cars, to my knowledge, have semi-auto boxes so why do purists still want a manual? Surely if you want this type of car buy an old one without all the technology and enjoy.
It`s your car. Use it how you like. Forget Porsche for a moment. Most people buy cars either new with the spec to their liking or used with specs to their liking / budget for a reason. Most of that reason is in their heads as it`s the minority who actually need these things. eg Landcruisers in Tescos. I knew a guy with a Hayabusa that was literally scared of it. Full race add ons and all the gear. That`s life. Who cares? He loved to wheel it out and pootle along, polish it and speak to the other bikers that rub their boots and pads on a grinder to look cool. The only people who flamed him for it were the envious.Mine is comfort spec with PCCBs, lift, leather, carbon etc.(oh, and red stitching!!) which I'm very happy with as I'm not a track jockey but I do prefer the feel of the PCCBs and they do look rather cool - sad I know.
My car is currently at the OPC for warranty work (minute hand of the chrono clock fell off!!)and a campaign on the lift system, I've be loaned a 991 CS2 with a manual box and here's my main point - I really can't understand why anyone would choose a manual 7 speed over the pdk, if feels totally archaic to me, most modern race cars, to my knowledge, have semi-auto boxes so why do purists still want a manual? Surely if you want this type of car buy an old one without all the technology and enjoy.
Providing you`re not being an A hole about owning such items to decent people who would love but can`t access them then it matters not one jot in Sainsburys car park.
Edited by bigkeeko on Thursday 20th August 10:02
Edited by bigkeeko on Thursday 20th August 10:06
Oso said:
You say you can't understand why folks choose manual over PDK - if that's a question, let me try to answer it.
I don't like the car deciding what gear I'm in. For example, if it changes gear mid-corner that can cause instability. Or if I'm on a slippery road I might want to keep it in third rather than have it decide to kick down to second when I get on the gas. OK I could put it in self-select mode and drive it like a clutch-less manual and address some of that (but not the kick-down issue BTW on the standard cars - GT3 might be different)
It is, so the above isn't relevant!I don't like the car deciding what gear I'm in. For example, if it changes gear mid-corner that can cause instability. Or if I'm on a slippery road I might want to keep it in third rather than have it decide to kick down to second when I get on the gas. OK I could put it in self-select mode and drive it like a clutch-less manual and address some of that (but not the kick-down issue BTW on the standard cars - GT3 might be different)
Oso said:
I've invested a lot of time in the skills required to drive a manual, heel-toe shifts, transitioning from left-foot braking to right-foot braking to change gear etc. Also in the roadcraft around planning what gear to be in. I enjoy using those skills. I want to be the one driving the car, not the computer, because that's part of the fun for me.
I have been loaned a number of PDK cars and they are an engineering marvel. The gearboxes are strong, smooth, quick, the launch control is a hoot. They are quicker. They let you carry more speed into corners for less effort as you can be more focused on braking and steering without having to change gear. They are easier to drive around town or in slow moving motorway traffic. I've always had fun in them but always been glad to hand them back. They are just missing something. It's hard to put a finger on it. I think because changing gear manually for me is part of the fun, in its absence I have to work harder at the other aspects of driving to get the same amount of fun out the car. Something from the experience seems missing and out of balance and that leaves me feeling strangely cold.
But that's just me.
BTW I think the 991 GT3 is epic, one of the most astonishing cars around. It's probably the easiest 911 ever built to use on the track. On the one hand, I really appreciate the engineering that has gone into making that possible. On the other hand, I don't want my track car to flatter my driving. I want something that's transparent and raw, that rewards me for understanding it and working with it and shows up my mistakes so I can improve. I'm interested in developing speed through smoothness and efficiency and not in going fast simply because the car itself is so capable. So it's not just about the PDK - it's all the other electronic trickery that goes with it that often causes issues to folks like me that prefer a manual.
At least earlier GT3's never had any 'electronic trickery'.I have been loaned a number of PDK cars and they are an engineering marvel. The gearboxes are strong, smooth, quick, the launch control is a hoot. They are quicker. They let you carry more speed into corners for less effort as you can be more focused on braking and steering without having to change gear. They are easier to drive around town or in slow moving motorway traffic. I've always had fun in them but always been glad to hand them back. They are just missing something. It's hard to put a finger on it. I think because changing gear manually for me is part of the fun, in its absence I have to work harder at the other aspects of driving to get the same amount of fun out the car. Something from the experience seems missing and out of balance and that leaves me feeling strangely cold.
But that's just me.
BTW I think the 991 GT3 is epic, one of the most astonishing cars around. It's probably the easiest 911 ever built to use on the track. On the one hand, I really appreciate the engineering that has gone into making that possible. On the other hand, I don't want my track car to flatter my driving. I want something that's transparent and raw, that rewards me for understanding it and working with it and shows up my mistakes so I can improve. I'm interested in developing speed through smoothness and efficiency and not in going fast simply because the car itself is so capable. So it's not just about the PDK - it's all the other electronic trickery that goes with it that often causes issues to folks like me that prefer a manual.
Oh, wait....
sidicks said:
At least earlier GT3's never had any 'electronic trickery'.
Oh, wait....
Err hang on, the OP said he din't understand why folks choose manual over PDK so what are you adding to my answer to that question?Oh, wait....
Re the electronics - which is a separate question - how far back do you want to go? No PSM? No TC? No ABS? Do you like all the systems on the current cars? Do you wish it was easier to configure them or turn them off? Maybe if we could I wouldn't find them so annoying.
Oso said:
You say you can't understand why folks choose manual over PDK - if that's a question, let me try to answer it.
I don't like the car deciding what gear I'm in. For example, if it changes gear mid-corner that can cause instability. Or if I'm on a slippery road I might want to keep it in third rather than have it decide to kick down to second when I get on the gas. OK I could put it in self-select mode and drive it like a clutch-less manual and address some of that (but not the kick-down issue BTW on the standard cars - GT3 might be different).
My GT3 will hold in manual mode but kick-down in auto which totally s
t me up (let alone my wife) once in the wet.
I've invested a lot of time in the skills required to drive a manual, heel-toe shifts, transitioning from left-foot braking to right-foot braking to change gear etc. Also in the roadcraft around planning what gear to be in. I enjoy using those skills. I want to be the one driving the car, not the computer, because that's part of the fun for me.
A Euro fighter pilot will be an epic pilot who has spent 1,000s of hour training in more basic aircraft but it's almost impossible to fly without numerous computers. I'm sure he would also love to fly a Spitfire with no such aids, this is progress.
I have been loaned a number of PDK cars and they are an engineering marvel. The gearboxes are strong, smooth, quick, the launch control is a hoot. They are quicker. They let you carry more speed into corners for less effort as you can be more focused on braking and steering without having to change gear. They are easier to drive around town or in slow moving motorway traffic. I've always had fun in them but always been glad to hand them back. They are just missing something. It's hard to put a finger on it. I think because changing gear manually for me is part of the fun, in its absence I have to work harder at the other aspects of driving to get the same amount of fun out the car. Something from the experience seems missing and out of balance and that leaves me feeling strangely cold.
This is obviously very subjective and I respect others opinions.
But that's just me.
BTW I think the 991 GT3 is epic, one of the most astonishing cars around. It's probably the easiest 911 ever built to use on the track. On the one hand, I really appreciate the engineering that has gone into making that possible. On the other hand, I don't want my track car to flatter my driving. I want something that's transparent and raw, that rewards me for understanding it and working with it and shows up my mistakes so I can improve. I'm interested in developing speed through smoothness and efficiency and not in going fast simply because the car itself is so capable. So it's not just about the PDK - it's all the other electronic trickery that goes with it that often causes issues to folks like me that prefer a manual.
BTW - I think it's great that you use your GT3 every day. Do try to get it on the circuit if you can - you'll love it. If you are nervous about something going wrong there are tracks you can use that are very quiet and have big run-offs and pro coaches who'll be glad to take you out and help you develop. You'll learn a lot about your car - and yourself
I will give that a go, as you say, I'm sure there is a lot to learn.
I don't like the car deciding what gear I'm in. For example, if it changes gear mid-corner that can cause instability. Or if I'm on a slippery road I might want to keep it in third rather than have it decide to kick down to second when I get on the gas. OK I could put it in self-select mode and drive it like a clutch-less manual and address some of that (but not the kick-down issue BTW on the standard cars - GT3 might be different).
My GT3 will hold in manual mode but kick-down in auto which totally s
t me up (let alone my wife) once in the wet. I've invested a lot of time in the skills required to drive a manual, heel-toe shifts, transitioning from left-foot braking to right-foot braking to change gear etc. Also in the roadcraft around planning what gear to be in. I enjoy using those skills. I want to be the one driving the car, not the computer, because that's part of the fun for me.
A Euro fighter pilot will be an epic pilot who has spent 1,000s of hour training in more basic aircraft but it's almost impossible to fly without numerous computers. I'm sure he would also love to fly a Spitfire with no such aids, this is progress.
I have been loaned a number of PDK cars and they are an engineering marvel. The gearboxes are strong, smooth, quick, the launch control is a hoot. They are quicker. They let you carry more speed into corners for less effort as you can be more focused on braking and steering without having to change gear. They are easier to drive around town or in slow moving motorway traffic. I've always had fun in them but always been glad to hand them back. They are just missing something. It's hard to put a finger on it. I think because changing gear manually for me is part of the fun, in its absence I have to work harder at the other aspects of driving to get the same amount of fun out the car. Something from the experience seems missing and out of balance and that leaves me feeling strangely cold.
This is obviously very subjective and I respect others opinions.
But that's just me.
BTW I think the 991 GT3 is epic, one of the most astonishing cars around. It's probably the easiest 911 ever built to use on the track. On the one hand, I really appreciate the engineering that has gone into making that possible. On the other hand, I don't want my track car to flatter my driving. I want something that's transparent and raw, that rewards me for understanding it and working with it and shows up my mistakes so I can improve. I'm interested in developing speed through smoothness and efficiency and not in going fast simply because the car itself is so capable. So it's not just about the PDK - it's all the other electronic trickery that goes with it that often causes issues to folks like me that prefer a manual.
BTW - I think it's great that you use your GT3 every day. Do try to get it on the circuit if you can - you'll love it. If you are nervous about something going wrong there are tracks you can use that are very quiet and have big run-offs and pro coaches who'll be glad to take you out and help you develop. You'll learn a lot about your car - and yourself
I will give that a go, as you say, I'm sure there is a lot to learn.
They all are what they are, we all like what we like, it only takes one small thing to push each and every one of us over the edge as to what makes a nice drivers car.
My car has no new style electric bits, having a real diff, passive shocks etc, but it does have ABS etc, but the only thing which I don't still like is PSM on my car.
PSM off should be PSM off which is a shame.
So NO one will ever agree as to what is too far, Electric steering was for me on the normal 991 and 981 range of cars, I hate it, it's brakes for other users, it's Automatics for some one else.
we buy what we like, so NO right and wrong, but every one argues about it, if one has bought it and kept it then one must be happy with what they own !
I am learning to get to grips with why people like Auto's more, I did argue but, if that's what they want to own , who am I to say other wise.
I think where all the Forum hassle comes from is people buying cars with all the electric help and still stating they are pure drivers cars. NOT what people choose to own, that is their choice.
new cars are easier to drive faster, no question about that, people love that they can drive fast with electric help, I think that may annoy people who have learned a trade so to speak esp when these "new breed of driver" state all the electrics takes nothing away from the "pure experience"
I can track a PDK car 2 or 3 seconds faster than a manual, so I AM saying PDK is faster for me, I just choose to be 3 seconds slower and imo I have more fun.
I have met many people on track days and some quotes are "It's about being fastest" that is the key point they want to prove on a track day, they even admit that is what they want, so PDK is a winner as is Torque vectoring and RWS etc etc.
My car has no new style electric bits, having a real diff, passive shocks etc, but it does have ABS etc, but the only thing which I don't still like is PSM on my car.
PSM off should be PSM off which is a shame.
So NO one will ever agree as to what is too far, Electric steering was for me on the normal 991 and 981 range of cars, I hate it, it's brakes for other users, it's Automatics for some one else.
we buy what we like, so NO right and wrong, but every one argues about it, if one has bought it and kept it then one must be happy with what they own !
I am learning to get to grips with why people like Auto's more, I did argue but, if that's what they want to own , who am I to say other wise.
I think where all the Forum hassle comes from is people buying cars with all the electric help and still stating they are pure drivers cars. NOT what people choose to own, that is their choice.
new cars are easier to drive faster, no question about that, people love that they can drive fast with electric help, I think that may annoy people who have learned a trade so to speak esp when these "new breed of driver" state all the electrics takes nothing away from the "pure experience"
I can track a PDK car 2 or 3 seconds faster than a manual, so I AM saying PDK is faster for me, I just choose to be 3 seconds slower and imo I have more fun.
I have met many people on track days and some quotes are "It's about being fastest" that is the key point they want to prove on a track day, they even admit that is what they want, so PDK is a winner as is Torque vectoring and RWS etc etc.
Oso said:
Err hang on, the OP said he din't understand why folks choose manual over PDK so what are you adding to my answer to that question?
He was talking about the 991 GT3, which made many of your comments irrelevant!Oso said:
Re the electronics - which is a separate question - how far back do you want to go? No PSM? No TC? No ABS? Do you like all the systems on the current cars? Do you wish it was easier to configure them or turn them off? Maybe if we could I wouldn't find them so annoying.
Whilst I accept that the 991 has some more driver aids than earlier models, I just find it laughable that some people criticise the 991 GT3 for having too much electronic assistance (often of course without having driven it...) and seemingly pretend that the 997 cars were pure analogue machines with no computing assistance whatsoever!PorscheGT4 said:
I think where all the Forum hassle comes from is people buying cars with all the electric help and still stating they are pure drivers cars.
I don't believe anyone has said any such thing.PorscheGT4 said:
new cars are easier to drive faster, no question about that, people love that they can drive fast with electric help, I think that may annoy people who have learned a trade so to speak esp when these "new breed of driver" state all the electrics takes nothing away from the "pure experience"
Again, I don't believe anyone has claimed this - it would clearly be nonsense. Just as it would be nonsense to claim the same for the 997...sidicks said:
Whilst I accept that the 991 has some more driver aids than earlier models, I just find it laughable that some people criticise the 991 GT3 for having too much electronic assistance (often of course without having driven it...) and seemingly pretend that the 997 cars were pure analogue machines with no computing assistance whatsoever!
Did you read what I wrote though? I said: BTW I think the 991 GT3 is epic, one of the most astonishing cars around.It is probably the most complete fast road/ track car I've driven. I was trying to explain why, despite that, I prefer something else.
Edit: and by the way, as I hope I made clear, why I totally respect the OP for having the car and using it how he does.
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