RE: Senna's Toleman-Hart: You Know You Want To
Thursday 29th October 2015
Most of us would be happy with a dog-eared paddock pass or even a set of used ear plugs. But if your worship of Ayrton Senna is a little better funded the chance to buy the car in which he secured his first F1 podium is pretty special. Chances like this don't come up often, clearly, but then nor do buyers it'd seem. "With the 2015 Formula 1 season about to get underway, and the exploits of Ayrton Senna certain to be revisited when comparisons between drivers of today and yesterday are made, right now is the perfect time to invest in one of the cars that helped create the legend," says the text for this advert, suggesting the car has been on the market a while. Open to a cheeky offer then?
Maybe, but at a listed price of £1m even then you're going to be facing a fairly hefty asking price. What do you get for the money? Well, the ad tells the story of the race pretty thoroughly but the tale of Senna's first win - and swift demotion to second place - is packed with drama and is credited as one of the early drives that brought him to the attention of the F1 community. Certainly getting his Toleman into contention on the rain-soaked streets of Monaco, overtaking Niki Lauda and catching the second McLaren of a certain Alain Prost on the way, is the stuff of underdog hero showing the big boys how it's done. And set up a rivalry that came to dominate F1 for years to come.
Senna's Toleman-Hart: You Know You Want To
A slice of motor racing history and the car Senna drove to his first F1 podium ... of course you want to!
"Before use by the new owner the car will require recommisioning," admits the advert, before committing to including this work as part of the asking price. So, money down, it'll be a runner. And you'll be able to share a seat with a legend.
TOLEMAN-HART F1 CAR
Price: £1,000,000
Why you should: It was a car driven by a legend
Why you shouldn't: If not actually a legendary car
See the original advert here.
Watch the video here.
[Race photos: LAT Photo, Youtube video: Peggy26]
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Discussion
glazbagun said:
FourWheelDrift said:
27s Lauda having a good look inside the Renault 
Liked that. 
Those cars sound as dull as anything.
http://youtu.be/rKi--Dzi6ZM
Some interesting points from that Monaco race, Senna would never have won if the race had not been stopped his suspension was on the point of collapsing, Prost front brakes were not reaching operating temperature, and Murray walker, whilst having a legendary voice, talks some right rubbish at times.
I have a feeling this was the car that Barry Lee showed me in the corner of his workshop in Witham(?) unrestored, back in the early 90's on racking against a wall along with a load of Caterhams. He said it would be worth a fortune one day; must have belonged to Ted Toleman still at that point?
glazbagun said:
FourWheelDrift said:
27s Lauda having a good look inside the Renault
Liked that. Those cars sound as dull as anything.
No different to one of us lesser mortals driving up the M1 in a torrential downpour in. Ferrari, and having to short-shift in an effort to use the torque available and prevent wheel spin.
Just an opinion of course.......
markcoznottz said:
Not as much as you might think..
http://youtu.be/rKi--Dzi6ZM
Some interesting points from that Monaco race, Senna would never have won if the race had not been stopped his suspension was on the point of collapsing, Prost front brakes were not reaching operating temperature, and Murray walker, whilst having a legendary voice, talks some right rubbish at times.
I never understood the adoration of Murray Walker. I assume that it is nostalgia.http://youtu.be/rKi--Dzi6ZM
Some interesting points from that Monaco race, Senna would never have won if the race had not been stopped his suspension was on the point of collapsing, Prost front brakes were not reaching operating temperature, and Murray walker, whilst having a legendary voice, talks some right rubbish at times.
markcoznottz said:
Not as much as you might think..
http://youtu.be/rKi--Dzi6ZM
Some interesting points from that Monaco race, Senna would never have won if the race had not been stopped his suspension was on the point of collapsing, Prost front brakes were not reaching operating temperature, and Murray walker, whilst having a legendary voice, talks some right rubbish at times.
Bellof would've caught the both of them anyway.http://youtu.be/rKi--Dzi6ZM
Some interesting points from that Monaco race, Senna would never have won if the race had not been stopped his suspension was on the point of collapsing, Prost front brakes were not reaching operating temperature, and Murray walker, whilst having a legendary voice, talks some right rubbish at times.
cookie1600 said:
I have a feeling this was the car that Barry Lee showed me in the corner of his workshop in Witham(?) unrestored, back in the early 90's on racking against a wall along with a load of Caterhams. He said it would be worth a fortune one day; must have belonged to Ted Toleman still at that point?
I automatically assumed that the Senna Toleman car always doing the rounds was out the donnington collection? Ive seen it running a few times, the last at that Senna tribute at Donno alongside the jps lotus. To clarify the TG 184 situation, the car that was in the Donington Collection was rebuilt from sundry parts, with the tub being claimed as TG184-02 (The Senna Monaco car). This has been disproved by a leading historian commissioned by owner, Nick Mason. The Mason car is now being described as TG184-01, the test car.
The car regularly seen in demos, which was originally thought to be chassis 01, is now proved to be 05, the end of season Senna race car. This car is owned by Alistair Davidson.
The car in the ad is the very well documented "Monaco TG184-02" owned by a private UK enthusiast syndicate and bought from Stefan Johansson (who took over the car from Senna at Monza '84) in 1994. The car is being offered, on their behalf, by Prindeville.
The car regularly seen in demos, which was originally thought to be chassis 01, is now proved to be 05, the end of season Senna race car. This car is owned by Alistair Davidson.
The car in the ad is the very well documented "Monaco TG184-02" owned by a private UK enthusiast syndicate and bought from Stefan Johansson (who took over the car from Senna at Monza '84) in 1994. The car is being offered, on their behalf, by Prindeville.
One Shot said:
To clarify the TG 184 situation
So what I remember could have been any one of a number of cars from that season, or indeed not that seasons Toleman car altogether!? I vividly remember Barry describing it as Senna's car, hence the perceived value and given his links with Ted Toleman, I naturally assume it was a genuine article. Did Senna race for the Toleman team in other Formula?The car Lee had was definitely not TG184-02 featured here. This car went straight to Johansson at the end of the '84 season and remained with his father in Sweden until it changed hands to it's current owners in '94.
As I remember, Barry Lee was involved with Ted Toleman and acquired a load of Toleman parts after the Benetton takeover. There was, however, some sort of dispute over the ownership of at least some of the parts and, except for TG184-02, there has been much confusion.
The car pictured here has always been complete and original, whilst the others have been reconstructed from parts. Senna also finished on the podium 3rd in the British GP in TG184-02, and Johansson finished 4th in it at Monza that year.
As I remember, Barry Lee was involved with Ted Toleman and acquired a load of Toleman parts after the Benetton takeover. There was, however, some sort of dispute over the ownership of at least some of the parts and, except for TG184-02, there has been much confusion.
The car pictured here has always been complete and original, whilst the others have been reconstructed from parts. Senna also finished on the podium 3rd in the British GP in TG184-02, and Johansson finished 4th in it at Monza that year.
One Shot said:
The car Lee had was definitely not TG184-02 featured here.
As I remember, Barry Lee was involved with Ted Toleman and acquired a load of Toleman parts after the Benetton takeover. There was, however, some sort of dispute over the ownership of at least some of the parts and, except for TG184-02, there has been much confusion.
Thanks for clearing that up a bit. I can't quite remember how complete the car I looked at was when it was at Hyperion Motorsport so it could indeed have been a selection of parts from the leftovers bin.As I remember, Barry Lee was involved with Ted Toleman and acquired a load of Toleman parts after the Benetton takeover. There was, however, some sort of dispute over the ownership of at least some of the parts and, except for TG184-02, there has been much confusion.
I just remember how enthusiastic Barry was about any project he'd been, or was going to be involved in. I spent hours talking cars and racing with him, when I should have been selling stuff!
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