Discussion
The 575 also has the most beautiful interior EVER - a serious improvement over 550 (which was already close to perfection). It doesn't sound any better than the 550 though, which is just far too quiet - but is supposedly even quicker than the 360. Apparently coming from a 550 you can really feel the difference in grunt
I spoke to a dealer who echoed the fact that Ferrari have softened it up excessively but until I drive it myself I don't care/don't belive them (them being the journos).
Any Maranello I buy in the future will have the Fiorano handling pack anyhow - that should sort any theoretical problems.
IMO - it's probably the best car in the world at the mo. But then I am biased and have always and will always love the Maranello
I spoke to a dealer who echoed the fact that Ferrari have softened it up excessively but until I drive it myself I don't care/don't belive them (them being the journos).
Any Maranello I buy in the future will have the Fiorano handling pack anyhow - that should sort any theoretical problems.
IMO - it's probably the best car in the world at the mo. But then I am biased and have always and will always love the Maranello
quote:
Any Maranello I buy in the future will have the Fiorano handling pack anyhow - that should sort any theoretical problems.
Manu, you swine! How dare you be so casual about owning a Ferrari? Come to think of it I'm sure I would be the same if ever I could afford one - Matchbox models only, I'm afraid!
How much stiffer does the handling pack make the suspension?
PS - Can I have a job?
Animal - I'm DEADLY DEADLY serious - matchbox models for me too for at least the next couple of years.
No chance of getting one in the forseeable decade...
Oh well...
The Fiorano handling package makes the car handle A LOT better (supposedly - never driven a 550 with the bits). Less assistance on the steering, slightly lowered suspension, stiffened by 25% (I think) along with stiffer anti-roll bars...
Some of the details may be out so don't take my word for it but the pack comes highly recommended from the people I've spoken too. Makes the car more prone to grounding out too which is quite a big downside.
Animal - as Ninja found out (much to his displeasure)we only accept applications from beautiful young women who like to be paid in erm..... favours....
P.S. I currently drive a Volvo/ Volvo Estate/ Peugeot...
>> Edited by manu on Friday 23 August 14:25
>> Edited by manu on Friday 23 August 14:26
No chance of getting one in the forseeable decade...
Oh well...
The Fiorano handling package makes the car handle A LOT better (supposedly - never driven a 550 with the bits). Less assistance on the steering, slightly lowered suspension, stiffened by 25% (I think) along with stiffer anti-roll bars...
Some of the details may be out so don't take my word for it but the pack comes highly recommended from the people I've spoken too. Makes the car more prone to grounding out too which is quite a big downside.
Animal - as Ninja found out (much to his displeasure)we only accept applications from beautiful young women who like to be paid in erm..... favours....
P.S. I currently drive a Volvo/ Volvo Estate/ Peugeot...
>> Edited by manu on Friday 23 August 14:25
>> Edited by manu on Friday 23 August 14:26
Hi
My 550 did not have the Fiorano handling pack - and was awesome. It was much better without ASR (around a track), which killed the understeer and reluctance to turn in on a low speed corner. Having said that, I have also driven a 550 with the FHP, and was appalled at how badly it tramlined over road joints (My Diablo is much more balanced and has fully adjustable damping) etc. etc.
I think the 575 is a great car - I'm not so sure about the interior being the best in the world - a tad too fussy. I also feel the the F1 paddle shift is inappropriate for the 575 as it is really an out and out GT, with sporty intentions!
For me, truly mastering double declutching and heeling and toeing is all part of the fun - and after 15 years of learning - I'm slowly getting there!
I was suprised that the reviews are not favourable regarding the 575 - but I also put that down to a lot of journalists not being familiar with driving such powerfull cars on a regular basis.
I guess this is a mild work over to suffice until the replacement is due (just under 3 years.......)
Oh well, we'll just have to lump in until then!!!!!
My 550 did not have the Fiorano handling pack - and was awesome. It was much better without ASR (around a track), which killed the understeer and reluctance to turn in on a low speed corner. Having said that, I have also driven a 550 with the FHP, and was appalled at how badly it tramlined over road joints (My Diablo is much more balanced and has fully adjustable damping) etc. etc.
I think the 575 is a great car - I'm not so sure about the interior being the best in the world - a tad too fussy. I also feel the the F1 paddle shift is inappropriate for the 575 as it is really an out and out GT, with sporty intentions!
For me, truly mastering double declutching and heeling and toeing is all part of the fun - and after 15 years of learning - I'm slowly getting there!
I was suprised that the reviews are not favourable regarding the 575 - but I also put that down to a lot of journalists not being familiar with driving such powerfull cars on a regular basis.
I guess this is a mild work over to suffice until the replacement is due (just under 3 years.......)
Oh well, we'll just have to lump in until then!!!!!
Hi fellas:
Where did you drive the 575? Could you genuinly feel the power increase over the 550? I love the look of the car (including new nose and headlamps) and although I concede that some people may find the interior too fussy, for me at least, it still represents perfection.
You're right about the FHP Anjum - but the car is supposedly soooo much sharper to drive (I cannot remember but I believe the option was around £1800) that for the money I would love to give it a go. I have heard that the car sits just too low with it (to the point where you can actually smash the bottom of the radiator if the nose is compressed under braking and with a bump) but it is a price I'd be prepared to pay. You can actually tell an FHP 550M just from looking at it - the cars sits quite a bit lower - especially if you are looking at the rear wheels and how close they are to the arches - it looks a little more aggressive.
Quite why anyone would want an F1 on a 5.7 V12 with +420lbs/ft of torque is beyond me.... Never liked 'em, and never will (exclude the Ferrari Enzo!)
Oh and BTW - how was the 550 on track?
I was reading your comments on the Murci.. very interesting. (my test drive was somewhat compromised for "non-car reasons" also.....)
However I will say that it doesn't feel that much faster than a 550 Maranello despite the supposed additional 90BHP. I neglected to mention that the car rode very very well.
The thing is, up against the 550, I just can't get over the little things.. the pedals are tiny (esp against the 550), my head was VERY close to the top of the window, the visibility is lame and the interior doesn't deliver the excitement. The 550's clutch is not light (and I'm not skinny) and neither is the gearbox so it was quite a satisfying process palying with the 'box. The Murci didn't really have that satisfaction.
The one thing it did have though was a much better sound.
>> Edited by manu on Friday 23 August 19:44
Where did you drive the 575? Could you genuinly feel the power increase over the 550? I love the look of the car (including new nose and headlamps) and although I concede that some people may find the interior too fussy, for me at least, it still represents perfection.
You're right about the FHP Anjum - but the car is supposedly soooo much sharper to drive (I cannot remember but I believe the option was around £1800) that for the money I would love to give it a go. I have heard that the car sits just too low with it (to the point where you can actually smash the bottom of the radiator if the nose is compressed under braking and with a bump) but it is a price I'd be prepared to pay. You can actually tell an FHP 550M just from looking at it - the cars sits quite a bit lower - especially if you are looking at the rear wheels and how close they are to the arches - it looks a little more aggressive.
Quite why anyone would want an F1 on a 5.7 V12 with +420lbs/ft of torque is beyond me.... Never liked 'em, and never will (exclude the Ferrari Enzo!)
Oh and BTW - how was the 550 on track?
I was reading your comments on the Murci.. very interesting. (my test drive was somewhat compromised for "non-car reasons" also.....)
However I will say that it doesn't feel that much faster than a 550 Maranello despite the supposed additional 90BHP. I neglected to mention that the car rode very very well.
The thing is, up against the 550, I just can't get over the little things.. the pedals are tiny (esp against the 550), my head was VERY close to the top of the window, the visibility is lame and the interior doesn't deliver the excitement. The 550's clutch is not light (and I'm not skinny
) and neither is the gearbox so it was quite a satisfying process palying with the 'box. The Murci didn't really have that satisfaction. The one thing it did have though was a much better sound.
>> Edited by manu on Friday 23 August 19:44
i was could you say in the right place at the right time the european journos were having there launch of the 575 at spa circuit and i happened to be there. on asking what seemed to be the cheef journo what he thought he spoke minimal english and just urshered me into the car and thus got to drive it for a lap round spa. the power didnt feel a lot faster than the 550 but more refined and much more responsive.
Gentlemen, can I ask a question that's been buzzing around my head for some time? Ever since, I recall, Jeremy Clarkson, Richard Burns and some other bloke (touring car racer, I seem to remember), pronounced the 550 as the then best handling car in production. (It was up against stuff like the 355, Skyline, 993 Carrera, Elise, Pug 106(!) and one or two other notables - you may have seen the video.)
In my experience, I have always found that cars with a certain bulk and weight, when pushed severely hard, always baulk and pitch under extreme braking and cornering. It seems to be a matter of pure physics.
And yet somehow, the 550/575 appears to defy this?
It ain't no Lotus so how?
>> Edited by Derestrictor on Saturday 24th August 10:12
In my experience, I have always found that cars with a certain bulk and weight, when pushed severely hard, always baulk and pitch under extreme braking and cornering. It seems to be a matter of pure physics.
And yet somehow, the 550/575 appears to defy this?
It ain't no Lotus so how?
>> Edited by Derestrictor on Saturday 24th August 10:12
quote:
have always found that cars with a certain bulk and weight, when pushed severely hard, always baulk and pitch under extreme braking and cornering. It seems to be a matter of pure physics.
And yet somehow, the 550/575 appears to defy this?
It ain't no Lotus so how?
Active suspension is my guess. I have it in the 456 and you get a little roll on entry into a corner; just enough to feel what the car's doing. It's a beefed up version of this in the 550 and the 575M I think.
Hi Kevin, glad you came in there because the 456 was a car I had previously expressed concern over in this specific area; that when really pressing on it felt far less wieldy than I had imagined/been led to believe.
However, your good self and the rest of Ferrari's PH crew slapped me about the chops and reassured me, nevertheless. I must reiterate, that particular test drive was affected by extreme precipitation; it just didn't feel (and please correct me if I'm talking crap or suffering from rose-tinteditus) as honed as the old 928s I'd previously run..?
And yet somehow, I'm still madly in love with the 456 (manual only, if you please!); it's proportions are divine and it is, IMHO, THE most elegant thing to bestride four tyres.
The engine is 'of the Gods' and the fabulous tactillity of the chromed shift (the celebrated 'clack-clack' effect) is something akin to pure rapture. I could go on but I fear my words might transmogrify into dribble.
So forgive the misgivings, Kevin, they are surely unnecessary - you have in the 456 a car of timeless classicism and something you must never, if you can help it, sell. (That doesn't include, as I have just remembered, my bespoke car care facility, offered only to select members of the PH exotica community, who may be off on a quick month long jaunt around Europe in their 360 but feel the need for the carbon to be blasted once every day or two from the cylinders of their otherwise docile steeds...)
Oh the 456GT; the void created by it's non-ownership is almost too much to bear...
However, your good self and the rest of Ferrari's PH crew slapped me about the chops and reassured me, nevertheless. I must reiterate, that particular test drive was affected by extreme precipitation; it just didn't feel (and please correct me if I'm talking crap or suffering from rose-tinteditus) as honed as the old 928s I'd previously run..?
And yet somehow, I'm still madly in love with the 456 (manual only, if you please!); it's proportions are divine and it is, IMHO, THE most elegant thing to bestride four tyres.
The engine is 'of the Gods' and the fabulous tactillity of the chromed shift (the celebrated 'clack-clack' effect) is something akin to pure rapture. I could go on but I fear my words might transmogrify into dribble.
So forgive the misgivings, Kevin, they are surely unnecessary - you have in the 456 a car of timeless classicism and something you must never, if you can help it, sell. (That doesn't include, as I have just remembered, my bespoke car care facility, offered only to select members of the PH exotica community, who may be off on a quick month long jaunt around Europe in their 360 but feel the need for the carbon to be blasted once every day or two from the cylinders of their otherwise docile steeds...)
Oh the 456GT; the void created by it's non-ownership is almost too much to bear...
Derestrictor-are you a poet/novelist by any chance? 
And can I please have a little of whatever you're smoking?
The 456 certainly isn't a racing car but it comes as close to my ideal as I have yet seen. While it has an almost identical footprint to the 360 (yes, surprised me too) it is several hundred kilos heavier. The engine is in the front too and you have to remember to hit 'sport' if you're going over yumps or the chin will hit the deck. Despite this weight,it is hugely competent across country along B roads etc; there is so little drama involved it can come as a bit of a shock when you look down and see how fast you're travelling. The suspension comes up short when you need high speed direction changes accompanied by a reversal in camber, but it's hugely confidence inspiring to drive and always lets you know what it's doing and where the limits are. This, in one of the most breathtakingly lovely designs I have ever seen, together with the fact that I can get my whole family in it means it doesn't get much better than this IMO. Manu once described it as the Ferrari equivalent of a Bentley and I agree with him.
Haven't driven a 575M yet (I really don't dare, no, really I don't) but I've driven both 550 & 456M around Brands; they are obviously related, the major difference being that the 550 drives as though it is a little lighter.
And can I please have a little of whatever you're smoking? The 456 certainly isn't a racing car but it comes as close to my ideal as I have yet seen. While it has an almost identical footprint to the 360 (yes, surprised me too) it is several hundred kilos heavier. The engine is in the front too and you have to remember to hit 'sport' if you're going over yumps or the chin will hit the deck. Despite this weight,it is hugely competent across country along B roads etc; there is so little drama involved it can come as a bit of a shock when you look down and see how fast you're travelling. The suspension comes up short when you need high speed direction changes accompanied by a reversal in camber, but it's hugely confidence inspiring to drive and always lets you know what it's doing and where the limits are. This, in one of the most breathtakingly lovely designs I have ever seen, together with the fact that I can get my whole family in it means it doesn't get much better than this IMO. Manu once described it as the Ferrari equivalent of a Bentley and I agree with him.
Haven't driven a 575M yet (I really don't dare, no, really I don't) but I've driven both 550 & 456M around Brands; they are obviously related, the major difference being that the 550 drives as though it is a little lighter.
Kevin - great piece of real world, driver-orientated narrative - precisely how the car mags should do it!
Cheers, I enjoyed that.
P.S. Yes, once again I must restate my sheer desire for the 456's shape; Pininfarina's loveliest ever? Certainly up there. Can I ask, have you topped out said beauty, ever? What is it, 194 mph or something? I can imagine it being quite unruffled at such majestic velocities.
Any chance of some piccies on your profile?
Cheers, I enjoyed that.
P.S. Yes, once again I must restate my sheer desire for the 456's shape; Pininfarina's loveliest ever? Certainly up there. Can I ask, have you topped out said beauty, ever? What is it, 194 mph or something? I can imagine it being quite unruffled at such majestic velocities.
Any chance of some piccies on your profile?
quote:
Can I ask, have you topped out said beauty, ever? What is it, 194 mph or something? I can imagine it being quite unruffled at such majestic velocities.
Any chance of some piccies on your profile?
Hi Derestrictor-the-articulate,
Nay good sire, never have I topped out said beauty! Vmax is quoted as '186+mph'. At 150mph the car is rock solid (very much 'unruffled and majestic'), and there is no more drama or wind noise than at 70mph. Should say that it was still pulling like a train at that point too. One chap I took out in it commented that it wasn't so much how quickly it got to 60mph, it was the fact that it kept on going at that rate.
There are already a couple of pics in my profile (webshots link) though I'm no photographer and they don't do the car justice.
Cheers
Kevin
Kevin, when I got home on Saturday night I whacked on the old Top Gear 'Super Cars' video from the mid-90s, in which Jezza takes a 456GT on a gallop around some Italian backroads.
It was heartwarming stuff and I blubbed for an hour afterwards.
I keep thinking that next year I'm getting a Ferrari and conventional wisdom has me checking out 360s and 355s but the more I think about it the more I levitate towards the 456. Ok, ok, it's not as dynamic as a 550 nor as spine-tingling in the musical chamber as the V8s but like you, I could really utilize the rear seats what with a young 'un being a condsideration too.
And you know, it's just SO elegant! I keep harping on about this but it's automotive sculpture, IMHO. And the seemingly infinate elasticity of it's locomotive pull, to which you allude, also stirs the loins, somewhat!
Question for you, Kevin: forgetting practicality, if you had to keep only one of your two thoroughbreds, which would find destiny in the knackers yard?
It was heartwarming stuff and I blubbed for an hour afterwards.
I keep thinking that next year I'm getting a Ferrari and conventional wisdom has me checking out 360s and 355s but the more I think about it the more I levitate towards the 456. Ok, ok, it's not as dynamic as a 550 nor as spine-tingling in the musical chamber as the V8s but like you, I could really utilize the rear seats what with a young 'un being a condsideration too.
And you know, it's just SO elegant! I keep harping on about this but it's automotive sculpture, IMHO. And the seemingly infinate elasticity of it's locomotive pull, to which you allude, also stirs the loins, somewhat!
Question for you, Kevin: forgetting practicality, if you had to keep only one of your two thoroughbreds, which would find destiny in the knackers yard?
quote:
Question for you, Kevin: forgetting practicality, if you had to keep only one of your two thoroughbreds, which would find destiny in the knackers yard?
This is a tough one because they're so very different. A week ago, almost to the hour, this would have been easy; however since Manu & Ajay worked their magic on the 360's exhaust note it's been like having a new car. These past few days you've needed a crowbar to get me out of it. Despite this, it would be the 456 though, because it is just sooo good in all respects.
I too have that JC video with the blue 456. That black car that used to be at the end of the intro sequence for TG was a 456 too. Question for you Derestrictor- didn't Top Gear run another report when the 456M came out? For some reason, I can remember this quite clearly- it was a silver one and it must have been in 1998 although it seems longer ago than this. I haven't been able to find this on tape anywhere.
Kevin
quote:
...didn't Top Gear run another report when the 456M came out? For some reason, I can remember this quite clearly- it was a silver one and it must have been in 1998 although it seems longer ago than this. I haven't been able to find this on tape anywhere.
Kevin
Don't recall that one but hopefully someone can? On the subject of Jezza reviews, didn't you find his earlier works very good? I thought his early-mid Top Gear stuff was superbly crafted analysis, amusing but informative and in a way that people who loved driving could warm to; none of this post Jezza Jason Barlow techno-cockiness with a few lame witticisms thrown in as if to supplant the great one. And so brilliantly parried by the supporting automotive jester, Tuff Noodles. Glory days and yet to be equalled. Good grief, even Quentin wasn't a tosser back then!
Anyway, back to the 456 - are there any exhaust mods?
I feel an obsession coming on!
quote:
Anyway, back to the 456 - are there any exhaust mods?
Indeed so! This was how Manu & I hooked up to begin with- he was agonising over what to put on his 550 and I didn't know what to put on the 456. The current V12s are magnificent cars but they're just too damn quiet. It's a lot of money & hassle for a sports exhaust if you aren't happy with the outcome. In the end I ordered a Koenig from Germany and had it fitted locally. Fantastic result, although I just had to take a punt on it in the end.
Thinking about this has brought to mind the image of a hearse- I was trying to think of a simile for the stock V12s. Which reminds me, when I pop my clogs I want a hearse with a straight through exhaust. Yeah, none of this silence crap; if I'm not trying to unscrew the lid on the final drive then I'm definitely dead, and the flames on the over run could save the price of a cremation.
How's that for O/T?
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