RE: BBR Super 190: Driven

RE: BBR Super 190: Driven

Saturday 19th December 2015

BBR Super 190: Driven

Can BBR's first round of upgrades release the potential caged in the standard MX-5?



"Out of the box the Toyota is the better driver's car though. The MX-5 is a few subtle tweaks away from brilliance in this regard and there's no doubt some simple fettling could unlock its potential." That was Dan's verdict when comparing an MX-5 2.0-litre Sport with a GT86 up in the Scottish Highlands. Here we are a few months later with a subtly tweaked car that should answer those gripes about the standard MX-5: the BBR Super 190.

A quick refresh of the MX-5's issues before we turn to the modified car. Put simply, a mismatch between the factory spring rates and Bilstein dampers fitted to the 2.0 Sport resulted an unexpectedly nervous chassis on roads where an MX-5 should flow. In Scotland it would richochet over bumps, squirm under braking and snap into oversteer in the rain. It was a car that provided the driver with very little confidence, despite the layout and spec sheet suggesting the opposite.

That's not to say it was bad, rather that it felt the MX-5's latent potential had been frustratingly reined in by Mazda. A shame given its committed efforts to reduce kerbweight and stick with atmospheric engines.

Wider tyres and a 30mm drop do wonders
Wider tyres and a 30mm drop do wonders
Stand and deliver
This car promises to be better. Full details on the BBR Super 190 kit are available in our previous story but the important changes are a 30mm suspension drop on progressive rate springs, new wheels and tyres plus gains under the bonnet of 30hp and 28lb ft.

Conveniently enough we have another standard 2.0 Sport MX-5 to compare with the Super 190. They're even the same Soul Red colour. And before driving anywhere, before even getting in, the BBR-tweaked car is much more enticing. That suspension drop has done wonders for the stance, lending the MX-5 a welcome extra dose of aggression and assertiveness. It's not daft and slammed, simply lowered to a ride height more befitting of a sports car. The new OZ wheels look great too, shod here in Goodyear Eagle F1s that are 10mm wider at each corner (215/45 R17) than standard. It's visually much more exciting than the rather meek standard car.

That extra excitement and aggression continues on start up. With the roof lowered - what else do you do first in an MX-5? - the sound from BBR's 'Grand Tourer' backbox is all the more audible. Even at idle it sounds more potent than standard; eager, fizzy and ready to rev.

BBR has a more aggressive stance
BBR has a more aggressive stance
Dawn chorus
It's a welcome accompaniment on the road too, never intrusive but providing a raspy, rorty noise right out to 7,000rpm. As BBR's quieter option it strikes a really nice compromise between mature and mischievous; don't forget the lighter, louder 'sports silencer' is there if you fancy too...

Beyond the more invigorating soundtrack, it's the torque gain of the Super 190 that becomes evident very quickly. Not only is the maximum figure up 28lb ft on standard (148lb ft jumps to 176lb ft), but it's also reached over 1,000rpm earlier (the normal 2.0 needs 4,600rpm, the BBR 3,550rpm). So the impression ifs of more mid-range punch, an increased ability to pull from a higher gear and more confidence at motorway speeds too. It doesn't transform the character of the car, rather lends it some muscle where it was most required.

But with fluids warmed through, who wants to bimble round at less than 4,000rpm? Using that delightfully short-throw gearbox to grab as low a gear as possible, the BBR MX-5 wants to chase the rev limiter with an increased vigour and enthusiasm. Peak power is at 6,700rpm - the 160hp standard car peaks at 6,000rpm - so that revvy and vivacious character is enhanced, giving you even more incentive to chase the engine's upper reaches.

Well, sort of. Don't expect a turbocharged thump in the back, rather it's more an incremental gain. However, it's worth noting that our standard press car has nearly 7,000 miles on it and the BBR just 1,700; knowing how Japanese engines tend to free up with more miles, we would expect that gap in performance to grow in time. And even now, it's a more willing engine.

Tweaks push you to chase 7,100rpm redline
Tweaks push you to chase 7,100rpm redline
Same but more so
So what of the handling? It's much improved, pleasingly. The springs have added a very slightly firmer edge to the ride, but it's entirely tolerable and the pay off in terms of control, precision and confidence is comfortably worth it. The Super 190 is more alert and keener to change direction, but also more natural and fluid in the way it corners too. Gone is the dartiness off-centre, replaced with a more linear response. As the cornering loads build up, you can sense grip progressively ebbing away rather than collapsing in a scrappy mess. It's likely those fractionally wider Eagle F1s help here too. There's additional composure over bumps, which instils the confidence to push that bit harder under both brakes and power. This still on the standard - on the Sport model - Bilstein dampers. It would be interesting to try a car on BBR's Konis, because the ride and handling compromise here seems very good. But through some very simple modifications, the MX-5 not only now has higher limits but also gives the driver more faith to push them; win-win!

Combine those tweaks with what is so entertaining about the standard car - it's diminutive size, superb gearbox and strong brakes - and the result is a pretty mega little sports car actually. That gearbox has some close ratios too, so you can really extend the additional urge without feeling irresponsible. With the wind in your hair, that exhaust parping away and the MX-5 handling how it should, it's hard not to conclude that this could well be The Answer To Everything.

Downsides? There are very few. The cost will be a stumbling block for a few, but tuning naturally aspirated engines has never been a cheap process. And some people still won't be able to get over the MX-5 badge. But it's their loss. What was a fun if slightly frustrating roadster at times has become a proper little sports car that enthusiasts will really enjoy, while barely impinging on everyday usability. BBR's Stage 3 with over 200hp is due early next year - we can't wait!


MAZDA MX-5 2.0 BBR SUPER 190
Engine
: 1,998cc, 4-cyl
Transmission: 6-speed manual, rear-wheel drive
Power (hp): 190@6,700rpm (standard car 160@ 6,000rpm)
Torque (lb ft): 176@3,550rpm (standard car 148@4,600rpm)
0-62mph: 7.3sec*
Top speed: 133mph*
Weight: 1,075kg* (with 75kg driver)
MPG: 40.9mpg* (NEDC combined)
CO2: 161g/km*
Price: £20,095 (Standard car, before modifications; Super 175 kit £495+VAT fitted, £595+VAT DIY inc. OBD port and diagnostics software; Super 190 kit £1,995+VAT fitted, £1,795+VAT DIY inc. OBD port, diagnostics and exchange manifold)

*Standard car; no post-conversion performance figures yet published















Images: Chris Teagles

Author
Discussion

tadaah

Original Poster:

214 posts

211 months

Wednesday 16th December 2015
quotequote all
Genuine question:

If the original set up is "over sprung and under damped" leading to disappointing handling in your first test, how does increasing the spring rate further make it a better car, with no change to the "under damped" standard dampers?

It's a little odd

Cheers

Mannginger

9,065 posts

257 months

Wednesday 16th December 2015
quotequote all
I hate stories like this tempting me even further!

Slightly disappointing there's no video though

Dan Trent

1,866 posts

168 months

Wednesday 16th December 2015
quotequote all
tadaah said:
Genuine question:

If the original set up is "over sprung and under damped" leading to disappointing handling in your first test, how does increasing the spring rate further make it a better car, with no change to the "under damped" standard dampers?

It's a little odd

Cheers
Apologies, got our mucking words fuddled and Neil at BBR indeed confirms the stock set-up is under sprung for the stiffness of the Bilstein dampers, hence car's roly-poly nature combined with harshness over the bumps. It's as much ride height as spring rate though, the damper now working into its stroke and much better matched to the springs, which have a progressive rate to permit the lower ride height and increased support without compromising the comfort in the initial suspension travel.

Confusion hopefully cleared up both here and in the story with apologies.

Cheers!

Dan


Edited by Dan Trent on Wednesday 16th December 13:48

V8RX7

26,868 posts

263 months

Wednesday 16th December 2015
quotequote all
If there is a true 30bhp gain, on a 160bhp car - that should be very obvious.

RemyMartin

6,759 posts

205 months

Wednesday 16th December 2015
quotequote all
So basically 30bhp from a manifold and remap on a n/asp car.... Hmm.

E-bmw

9,220 posts

152 months

Wednesday 16th December 2015
quotequote all
Perfectly feasible.

I went from 193 to 235 with inlet/exhaust manifold & remap.

And before you ask, yes, that is also N/A.

DeltonaS

3,707 posts

138 months

Wednesday 16th December 2015
quotequote all
RemyMartin said:
So basically 30bhp from a manifold and remap on a n/asp car.... Hmm.
Almost:

"much more extensive package, taking in a cold air intake system, modified manifold with 2.5-inch outlet, a 2.5-inch exhaust centre section with sports cat and BBR 'Grand Tourer' backbox. A rortier, 4kg lighter 'sports silencer' is also available and actually saves a bit of cash (exact amount TBC), which sounds like a no-brainer. A dedicated four-into-one BBR exhaust manifold is also available, adding a further 2hp and preparing the car for the Stage 3 upgrade kit due next year."


Great stuff by the way from BBR. Add a set of Michelin Pilot Sport Cup 2's + some extra lightness with a couple of leather Recaro Pole Positions and a light weight battery and I think the new MX5 will really turn into a great track package.

dpop

210 posts

132 months

Wednesday 16th December 2015
quotequote all
Very impressed with this, though the improved stance in the "nose-to-nose" photo has me worrying about all the speedbumps in my neighbourhood, which I can currently take without too much trouble (i.e. slowing down) in my 2.0 SE-L!

sixpistons

188 posts

123 months

Wednesday 16th December 2015
quotequote all
E-bmw said:
Perfectly feasible.

I went from 193 to 235 with inlet/exhaust manifold & remap.

And before you ask, yes, that is also N/A.
328i by any chance? Well known that these had a deliberately restrictive inlet manifold from a 320i to keep it in a particular german insurance group - if the engine was already in a reasonable state of tune and not strangled, as is the case in the MX5 the gain is harder to achieve. The figures do look plausible though.

If they'd claimed 100bhp per litre @ 6000rpm from an n/a engine (as certain Renault tuners have previously) the smell of bullst would be overpowering.

Paul_M3

2,371 posts

185 months

Wednesday 16th December 2015
quotequote all
sixpistons said:


If they'd claimed 100bhp per litre @ 6000rpm from an n/a engine (as certain Renault tuners have previously) the smell of bullst would be overpowering.
But they are claiming a specific torque output which is virtually record breaking.

Which is mildly surprising when you consider they've taken a fairly normal engine and simply changed the intake, exhaust system, and given it a remap...

Vee12V

1,334 posts

160 months

Wednesday 16th December 2015
quotequote all
When I tried both versions a few weeks ago I genuinely preferred the 1.5 over the 2.0 Sport. Found it a much more cohesive package and the engine is a LOT nicer, revier and just more refined. Shame you can't get it with an LSD from the factory though.

snotrag

14,459 posts

211 months

Wednesday 16th December 2015
quotequote all
sixpistons said:
E-bmw said:
Perfectly feasible.

I went from 193 to 235 with inlet/exhaust manifold & remap.

And before you ask, yes, that is also N/A.
328i by any chance? Well known that these had a deliberately restrictive inlet manifold from a 320i to keep it in a particular german insurance group - if the engine was already in a reasonable state of tune and not strangled, as is the case in the MX5 the gain is harder to achieve. The figures do look plausible though.

If they'd claimed 100bhp per litre @ 6000rpm from an n/a engine (as certain Renault tuners have previously) the smell of bullst would be overpowering.
The previous generation MX5 had a very restrictive exhaust manifold with built in pre-cat - changing this out was key to releasing a LOT more power on the 2.0 MZR engine. And it seems also the case on the 2.0 Skyactiv lump.

redroadster

1,739 posts

232 months

Wednesday 16th December 2015
quotequote all
Why does Mazda not let BBR be a performance factory fit kit like mountune is to ford, seems like BBR do a good package if it could be bought from new even better you you finance the cost .

Black S2K

1,473 posts

249 months

Wednesday 16th December 2015
quotequote all
Paul_M3 said:
sixpistons said:


If they'd claimed 100bhp per litre @ 6000rpm from an n/a engine (as certain Renault tuners have previously) the smell of bullst would be overpowering.
But they are claiming a specific torque output which is virtually record breaking.

Which is mildly surprising when you consider they've taken a fairly normal engine and simply changed the intake, exhaust system, and given it a remap...
Text states it's raised to 6,700, so more plausible.

Paul_M3

2,371 posts

185 months

Wednesday 16th December 2015
quotequote all
Black S2K said:
Paul_M3 said:
sixpistons said:


If they'd claimed 100bhp per litre @ 6000rpm from an n/a engine (as certain Renault tuners have previously) the smell of bullst would be overpowering.
But they are claiming a specific torque output which is virtually record breaking.

Which is mildly surprising when you consider they've taken a fairly normal engine and simply changed the intake, exhaust system, and given it a remap...
Text states it's raised to 6,700, so more plausible.
I'm referring to the torque figure, which is at just over 3500rpm.

It has just over 88 lb.ft per litre. The work record for a production car was (and I assume still is) 89 lb.ft per litre from the Ferrari 458.

Even the latest 911 GT3 only makes around 85 lb.ft per litre.

Bearing in mind that Porsche and Ferrari design their engines from the outset to be high performance, doesn't it make BBRs figures for a mildly tuned 'normal' engine seem a bit suspect?

samoht

5,715 posts

146 months

Wednesday 16th December 2015
quotequote all
Paul_M3 said:
I'm referring to the torque figure, which is at just over 3500rpm.

It has just over 88 lb.ft per litre. The work record for a production car was (and I assume still is) 89 lb.ft per litre from the Ferrari 458.

Even the latest 911 GT3 only makes around 85 lb.ft per litre.

Bearing in mind that Porsche and Ferrari design their engines from the outset to be high performance, doesn't it make BBRs figures for a mildly tuned 'normal' engine seem a bit suspect?
I'm no expert, and your skepticism seems generally well-founded. However the Skyactiv engines do have a very high compression ratio, 14:1, the same as a 458 Speciale. So I could imagine that, in the midrange, the Mazda engine might be as 'efficient' as the Ferrari, albeit the Ferrari can keep that volumetric efficiency at higher revs due to cams/intake etc, thus giving the screaming headline power figures.

iguana

7,044 posts

260 months

Wednesday 16th December 2015
quotequote all
sixpistons said:
E-bmw said:
Perfectly feasible.

I went from 193 to 235 with inlet/exhaust manifold & remap.

And before you ask, yes, that is also N/A.
328i by any chance? Well known that these had a deliberately restrictive inlet manifold from a 320i to keep it in a particular german insurance group - if the engine was already in a reasonable state of tune and not strangled, as is the case in the MX5 the gain is harder to achieve. The figures do look plausible though.

If they'd claimed 100bhp per litre @ 6000rpm from an n/a engine (as certain Renault tuners have previously) the smell of bullst would be overpowering.
To detail thread even further from mx5s I've also hit the 230bhp with a 328 with the normal mods, however I've dynoed 3 high milers, all standard & on the same independent dyno as the modded car, all hit 210bhp tho, not the claimed 193 or whatever it was, so a nice 20 ish bhp gain nonetheless.

RoverP6B

4,338 posts

128 months

Thursday 17th December 2015
quotequote all
I'm getting a weird sense of deja vu over the "suspect" torque figures. Hasn't this been said before about similar upgrades to relatively humdrum engines?

minerva

756 posts

204 months

Thursday 17th December 2015
quotequote all
Have we seen dyno graphs before and after. It sounds suspicious but it looks like a brilliant car/package for the road with occasional forays into a track.

All the reviews I have ever read of BBR Mazdas have really liked them. There must be something in that.

Dr G

15,175 posts

242 months

Thursday 17th December 2015
quotequote all
Why is it so far sideways on a(n apparently) straight road? Burnout got a bit too hairy? laugh