RE: Honda Civic Type R: PH Carpool
Monday 11th January 2016
Name: Kris McCloy
Car: 2008 Honda Civic Type R
Owned since: June 2015
Previously owned: 1997 Honda Civic 1.4, 2001 VW Lupo, 1999 Honda Civic 1.5, 1999 Honda Civic EK4 SiR 1.6 DOHC, 1999 Honda Integra Type R DC2 (import)
Looks key to the appeal for KrisWhy I bought it:
"It was no longer viable for me to keep the DC2; I just couldn't keep it as a second car any longer. So I decided I wanted a 'one size fits all' car. I have always liked the space age looks both inside and outside of the FN2, plus it has 200hp and I prefer high revving power units."
Warranty useful when the speedo went kaputThings I love:
"As mentioned I think these cars look great. The interior is a very nice place both visually and ergonomically. The six-speed gearbox is direct and precise with nicely matched ratios. It's relatively practical, feels mechanically robust and it still has the potential to put a smile on my face when I want it to. Oh, and the engine sound!"
Amongst friends!Where I've been:
"I have ventured to Hartside Pass with a group of friends for a breakfast meet. I was there with a friend's Integra Type R engined Civic and another friend's Integra DC5. The lardy FN2 wasn't too far off though! The trip did highlight the need for a limited-slip differential however..."
Honda Civic Type R: PH Carpool
Honda fan Kris needed a more practical replacement for his Integra; what else was he going to get?
Car: 2008 Honda Civic Type R
Owned since: June 2015
Previously owned: 1997 Honda Civic 1.4, 2001 VW Lupo, 1999 Honda Civic 1.5, 1999 Honda Civic EK4 SiR 1.6 DOHC, 1999 Honda Integra Type R DC2 (import)
Looks key to the appeal for Kris
"It was no longer viable for me to keep the DC2; I just couldn't keep it as a second car any longer. So I decided I wanted a 'one size fits all' car. I have always liked the space age looks both inside and outside of the FN2, plus it has 200hp and I prefer high revving power units."
What I wish I'd known:
"I wish I would have picked up on a lot of niggling problems associated with this model. Upon collection, my car suffered from the aggravating clutch pedal click and subframe clicking when turning on full lock. I'm glad I opted for the six-month warranty too as the digital speedo soon decided it wanted to display 888mph. Other than that, I think I've found a good one after looking at six in total."
Warranty useful when the speedo went kaput
"As mentioned I think these cars look great. The interior is a very nice place both visually and ergonomically. The six-speed gearbox is direct and precise with nicely matched ratios. It's relatively practical, feels mechanically robust and it still has the potential to put a smile on my face when I want it to. Oh, and the engine sound!"
Things I hate:
"The rear visibility is poor at best. The suspension can be very easily upset even on average roads which takes its toll on some of the interior components. I despise interior rattles. The tyre shoulder shredding MacPherson front suspension and the height you sit within the cabin is far too high!"
Costs:
"Insurance actually cost more than my imported DC2 which shocked me. Tax is also more expensive at £290 per year and I am already well acquainted with Honda parts pricing. The new speedo unit cost £650. Thank you warranty. It's due the 75K service at a cost of around £400-£500 after I made a few enquiries."
Amongst friends!
"I have ventured to Hartside Pass with a group of friends for a breakfast meet. I was there with a friend's Integra Type R engined Civic and another friend's Integra DC5. The lardy FN2 wasn't too far off though! The trip did highlight the need for a limited-slip differential however..."
What next?
"I feel the car would benefit from additional front negative camber, uprated brake pads and some stickier tyres. I do enjoy this car as a daily driver and odd B-road blast. But for 2016 I am toying with the idea of an early EP3 Civic to sit alongside the FN2 in order to get back on track. There's a Recaro Pole position collecting cobwebs in my garage."
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Discussion
"The suspension can be very easily upset even on average roads which takes its toll on some of the interior components. I despise interior rattles. The tyre shoulder shredding MacPherson front suspension and the height you sit within the cabin is far too high!"
Quite serious negatives if you ask me.
Quite serious negatives if you ask me.
Ex owner here, I got rid of mine last week for a Z4C. Personally I quite like the FN2, its an unfairly maligned car around these parts. The suspension set up could be seen as a backwards step, but having driven the EP3 I don't think they handle any better than the FN and the latter has much better steering. The engine feels unburstable and it was generally very reliable in the year I had it, only wanting for a new battery.
People say they're slow but not if you drive them properly. Even the torque thing is a massively overstated issue.
I used to have a DC2 also and although it was not as good to drive as that was, the FN2 clearly shares the same DNA and makes for a better daily drive.
Agree on the seating position.
Never found the suspension that bad, but I suppose I've had some very firmly sprung cars in the past.
Also easily the best looking HH of its generation IMO.
People say they're slow but not if you drive them properly. Even the torque thing is a massively overstated issue.
I used to have a DC2 also and although it was not as good to drive as that was, the FN2 clearly shares the same DNA and makes for a better daily drive.
Agree on the seating position.
Never found the suspension that bad, but I suppose I've had some very firmly sprung cars in the past.
Also easily the best looking HH of its generation IMO.
Vee12V said:
"The suspension can be very easily upset even on average roads which takes its toll on some of the interior components. I despise interior rattles. The tyre shoulder shredding MacPherson front suspension and the height you sit within the cabin is far too high!"
Quite serious negatives if you ask me.
Yep, the mickey mouse suspension setup really ruined these over the previous generation. Even the cooking models show up how crap it is.Quite serious negatives if you ask me.
Swapped mine for an E46 M3 Cab. Miss the dash (still one of the best about for a car of its type), and load carrying capability, 4 people for a week to Wales with luggage wasn’t an issue.
The engine is brilliant, as I like revving N/A’s hence the M3. Torque for overtaking in 6th on the motorway was fine. MPG was good, 40 (indicated) on a run was possible.
The engine is brilliant, as I like revving N/A’s hence the M3. Torque for overtaking in 6th on the motorway was fine. MPG was good, 40 (indicated) on a run was possible.
had one for a year - the biggest issue i had with it was it's urge NOT to turn in anywhere - LSD would be a must for this car if you want to go fast. Lack of rear suspension adjustability was another issue, my car was a bit out of shape out of the factory - had to use shims to straighten it out, done by TDI.
Other than that, rear spoiler was a major PITA. Otherwise super practical for a hot hatch (double floor in the boot and foldable seats turned it into a VAN!). Engine does not need constant thrashing to get around as someone would expect from a VTEC-YO. Perfectly capable daily car.
Other than that, rear spoiler was a major PITA. Otherwise super practical for a hot hatch (double floor in the boot and foldable seats turned it into a VAN!). Engine does not need constant thrashing to get around as someone would expect from a VTEC-YO. Perfectly capable daily car.
I had one of these for around 14 months, I got rid of it in June as a I absolutely hated it....
Car looks stunning and the interior is brilliant mine was a 2007 GT Milano red that had 32k on it with black wheels I still love the way these cars look but thats all I can say for mine.
The ride did my head in as did the amount of noise it makes all the time, even on the motorway at a steady cruise its still screaming its head off. The amount of rattles in the cabin was very annoying as was the seating position and the fact that when someone got in the back the seat reset itself to my 92 year old grandma's driving position. Too make matters worse, its not that fast, at normal revs the lack of torque is hugely frustrating. I could go on forever about how much I didn't like it.
I replaced it with a 2008 GTI Edition 30 DSG 5 door and its 10 times better than the Type R could ever hope of being. Might not have the looks or the crazy interior (in honesty the Golf is a bit dull inside) but in every single other way its better car. Its faster, more comfortable, much more practical and I can see out the back when im parking it!
I think the main factor with the car was I just didnt bond with it. I'd had the Golf for about a week and i'd fallen for it.
Car looks stunning and the interior is brilliant mine was a 2007 GT Milano red that had 32k on it with black wheels I still love the way these cars look but thats all I can say for mine.
The ride did my head in as did the amount of noise it makes all the time, even on the motorway at a steady cruise its still screaming its head off. The amount of rattles in the cabin was very annoying as was the seating position and the fact that when someone got in the back the seat reset itself to my 92 year old grandma's driving position. Too make matters worse, its not that fast, at normal revs the lack of torque is hugely frustrating. I could go on forever about how much I didn't like it.
I replaced it with a 2008 GTI Edition 30 DSG 5 door and its 10 times better than the Type R could ever hope of being. Might not have the looks or the crazy interior (in honesty the Golf is a bit dull inside) but in every single other way its better car. Its faster, more comfortable, much more practical and I can see out the back when im parking it!
I think the main factor with the car was I just didnt bond with it. I'd had the Golf for about a week and i'd fallen for it.
Edited by Jay_87 on Monday 11th January 13:50
Vee12V said:
"The suspension can be very easily upset even on average roads which takes its toll on some of the interior components. I despise interior rattles. The tyre shoulder shredding MacPherson front suspension and the height you sit within the cabin is far too high!"
Quite serious negatives if you ask me.
Precisely the reason I'll shortly be selling mine. The suspension set up is an absolute joke - it also doesn't help that the roads where I live are pretty poor which exacarbates the whole situation. As a daily driver, I genuinely don't see how you could live with it unless you live on a billiard table smooth road. My OH also hates it, and every passenger I've ever taken has commented on how uncomfortable it is. Quite serious negatives if you ask me.
A hugely flawed car if you ask me.
Edited by RacingBlue on Monday 11th January 14:31
Edited by RacingBlue on Monday 11th January 14:33
RacingBlue said:
Vee12V said:
"The suspension can be very easily upset even on average roads which takes its toll on some of the interior components. I despise interior rattles. The tyre shoulder shredding MacPherson front suspension and the height you sit within the cabin is far too high!"
Quite serious negatives if you ask me.
Precisely the reason I'll shortly be selling mine. The suspension set up is an absolute joke - it also doesn't help that the roads where I live are pretty poor which exacarbates the whole situation. As a daily driver, I genuinely don't see how you could live with it unless you live on a billiard table smooth road. My OH also hates it, and every passenger I've ever taken has commented on how uncomfortable it is. Quite serious negatives if you ask me.
A hugely flawed car if you ask me.
Edited by RacingBlue on Monday 11th January 14:31
Edited by RacingBlue on Monday 11th January 14:33
snoopy25 said:
Loved mine to bits
Lovely cruiser on the motorway and absolutly awesome engine note when ringing its neck at 8000rpm
I miss mine
This, 100%. Had mine for 4 years and loved it, the engine sounds, looks, combined with the practicality of the space inside, could get my roadbike in the back. Sold it in April for a Z4 as I always wanted a convertible, but I loved my FN2 and still miss it. Mines didn't rattle and the harsh ride didn't bother me. As many have said, the ultimate marmite car. Don't think the perfect car is out there.Lovely cruiser on the motorway and absolutly awesome engine note when ringing its neck at 8000rpm
I miss mine
AMG01 said:
the ultimate marmite car. Don't think the perfect car is out there.
Certainly seems to be. I honestly don't get the amount of hate it receives. The EP3 for example, which seems to be able to do no wrong, doesn't handle any better and the steering is much worse. The engine also sounds better in the FN2. It looks much nicer and is a much nicer place to sit.It gets criticism for not having an LSD - later models do have, and the EP3 never had one (unless JDM import); most hot hatches from around 2007 didn't have an LSD either. It gets criticised for the suspension, but I rarely see anyone criticise a Renault Sport for having the same suspension setup, and honestly, I don't think my old 172/182 were really any better handling either. It gets criticised for the ride - ok its pretty firm and it bobs around a bit, but its a hot hatch, most of them are firm. It gets criticised for being slow, but does 0-60 in 6.6 secs and 146 mph - not class leading but slow?!
People moan on about how every car is now a 4-pot turbo, this was the last of the decent NA engines but still it just gets picked apart.
After owning an FN2 for 12 months, it certainly taught me to take what I read written about cars by other petrolheads with a pinch of salt. I assumed it would be utter, utter crap, but I was pleasantly surprised. No, its not perfect, but no car is. I fail to see what is so good, for example, about a Golf GTI Mk5 over this? VAG products send me to sleep - at least the FN2 tries to be different.
TameRacingDriver said:
Certainly seems to be. I honestly don't get the amount of hate it receives. The EP3 for example, which seems to be able to do no wrong, doesn't handle any better and the steering is much worse. The engine also sounds better in the FN2. It looks much nicer and is a much nicer place to sit.
It gets criticism for not having an LSD - later models do have, and the EP3 never had one (unless JDM import); most hot hatches from around 2007 didn't have an LSD either. It gets criticised for the suspension, but I rarely see anyone criticise a Renault Sport for having the same suspension setup, and honestly, I don't think my old 172/182 were really any better handling either. It gets criticised for the ride - ok its pretty firm and it bobs around a bit, but its a hot hatch, most of them are firm. It gets criticised for being slow, but does 0-60 in 6.6 secs and 146 mph - not class leading but slow?!
People moan on about how every car is now a 4-pot turbo, this was the last of the decent NA engines but still it just gets picked apart.
After owning an FN2 for 12 months, it certainly taught me to take what I read written about cars by other petrolheads with a pinch of salt. I assumed it would be utter, utter crap, but I was pleasantly surprised. No, its not perfect, but no car is. I fail to see what is so good, for example, about a Golf GTI Mk5 over this? VAG products send me to sleep - at least the FN2 tries to be different.
Don't come on here spouting common sense with all your relevant facts... This is just not tolerated!It gets criticism for not having an LSD - later models do have, and the EP3 never had one (unless JDM import); most hot hatches from around 2007 didn't have an LSD either. It gets criticised for the suspension, but I rarely see anyone criticise a Renault Sport for having the same suspension setup, and honestly, I don't think my old 172/182 were really any better handling either. It gets criticised for the ride - ok its pretty firm and it bobs around a bit, but its a hot hatch, most of them are firm. It gets criticised for being slow, but does 0-60 in 6.6 secs and 146 mph - not class leading but slow?!
People moan on about how every car is now a 4-pot turbo, this was the last of the decent NA engines but still it just gets picked apart.
After owning an FN2 for 12 months, it certainly taught me to take what I read written about cars by other petrolheads with a pinch of salt. I assumed it would be utter, utter crap, but I was pleasantly surprised. No, its not perfect, but no car is. I fail to see what is so good, for example, about a Golf GTI Mk5 over this? VAG products send me to sleep - at least the FN2 tries to be different.
I managed 80,000 miles in my 2 (as well as 30,000 in an Ep3) and loved every second of them. I am sure the guff that is spouted about the FN2 is mostly Clarkson related anyway!
I would now have the current model if it had been available 2 years or do earlier, despite what anyone says.
I bought a new FN2 in 2008 and ran it for 2 years. Regret selling to this day. Grippy and quick enough for me. The best gearchange in the world ever, and the best seats. And the looks, and the mad dashboard. A bit noisy on the motorway (mine had the optional 19'' Rage wheels so tyre noise was higher than the standard ones). And now at 53 I think my Z4 will be going in favour of a new Type R before too long, although I have to admit to being a little loathe to pay £33k for a Honda Civic. But some man-maths will sort that out. Enjoy it, as the high revving NA VTEC motor is never going to come back. A mechanical masterpiece.
I've currently got one of the last of the FN2s (Championship white spec, but in black) with the LSD. Not having driven an earlier one, I can't comment on the difference the LSD makes, but personally I think it handles pretty well, good turn in and fairly grippy. Way better than the blobeye Impreza I had previously, and with more steering feel than the EP3 I had a few years back.
The ride quality isn't the best, I don't find it crashy but it does seem to bob about more than it should. The interior is great however, with wonderful seats. The gearchange is one of the best I've used, even if the gearlever is in a more conventional location than the EP3. The engine is also fantastic, yes it doesn't have a lot of torque, but the way it revs is very addictive and I'd say it's the best sounding 4 cylinder out there.
I think it's a massively underrated car, and if it wasn't for the fact I've got one of the newer ones on order, I'd have held on to it for a while.
The ride quality isn't the best, I don't find it crashy but it does seem to bob about more than it should. The interior is great however, with wonderful seats. The gearchange is one of the best I've used, even if the gearlever is in a more conventional location than the EP3. The engine is also fantastic, yes it doesn't have a lot of torque, but the way it revs is very addictive and I'd say it's the best sounding 4 cylinder out there.
I think it's a massively underrated car, and if it wasn't for the fact I've got one of the newer ones on order, I'd have held on to it for a while.
Some great points of discussion in here regarding my Type R model.
I think the point where it has been described as a bit marmite is spot on and I feel the car is definitely a bit of a grower. Jumping in it from my 1060kg DC2 it felt like I was piloting a bus in honesty mainly due to the bulkiness and width of the thing! But the more I drive it, The more I enjoy it, The 5.1 Ratio FD is a nice upgrade too over the EP3 Model, Car feels urgent IMO. Being my first K20, I enjoy the smoothness and refinement of the engine, Even on idle/cold starts.
Having driven various EP3's I feel Honda has made excellent progress with the EPAS, The steering in the EP3 feels light and relatively numb whereas the FN2 steering has a much nicer weight to it and loads up more progressively. And there’s a positive difference between my fathers 2.2 CDTi model.
Regarding the ride/comfort - Maybe I was being a tad harsh in hindsight, It by no means ruins the B-road experience for me, enhances it in fact. For instance after owning my DC2 with upmarket Japanese coilovers, I didn't come back from Hartside thinking I need coilovers in this FN2. Stiffness in suspension and body rigidity is very high for a stock HH. It's drives around town and work commutes where it can become more tiresome with the suspension IMO.
In regards to the LSD, All cars produced after 04/10 had one equipped, When comparing to the EP3 I feel the larger footprint of the the 18" wheels and 225 tyres improves the issue marginally, But largely I still feel an LSD would be a positive benefit.
Looking back, I guess I was trying to give an unbiased and honest opinion of the FN2, Even being a die-hard Honda fan. For me at least, I feel it’s a bit of a diamond in the rough going against most recommendations, Even Jeremy Clarkson…. Speaking of that, A ‘non car guy’ Nissan Note owner asked me, “Aren’t they very slow those cars? I saw it on TG”…
Again appreciate the feedback and different angles.
My trip to Japan in March will no doubt send urges for another thoroughbred R from the 90’s…
Winter jetwash and some new OEM decals added to make it feel more like a Type R haha.
I think the point where it has been described as a bit marmite is spot on and I feel the car is definitely a bit of a grower. Jumping in it from my 1060kg DC2 it felt like I was piloting a bus in honesty mainly due to the bulkiness and width of the thing! But the more I drive it, The more I enjoy it, The 5.1 Ratio FD is a nice upgrade too over the EP3 Model, Car feels urgent IMO. Being my first K20, I enjoy the smoothness and refinement of the engine, Even on idle/cold starts.
Having driven various EP3's I feel Honda has made excellent progress with the EPAS, The steering in the EP3 feels light and relatively numb whereas the FN2 steering has a much nicer weight to it and loads up more progressively. And there’s a positive difference between my fathers 2.2 CDTi model.
Regarding the ride/comfort - Maybe I was being a tad harsh in hindsight, It by no means ruins the B-road experience for me, enhances it in fact. For instance after owning my DC2 with upmarket Japanese coilovers, I didn't come back from Hartside thinking I need coilovers in this FN2. Stiffness in suspension and body rigidity is very high for a stock HH. It's drives around town and work commutes where it can become more tiresome with the suspension IMO.
In regards to the LSD, All cars produced after 04/10 had one equipped, When comparing to the EP3 I feel the larger footprint of the the 18" wheels and 225 tyres improves the issue marginally, But largely I still feel an LSD would be a positive benefit.
Looking back, I guess I was trying to give an unbiased and honest opinion of the FN2, Even being a die-hard Honda fan. For me at least, I feel it’s a bit of a diamond in the rough going against most recommendations, Even Jeremy Clarkson…. Speaking of that, A ‘non car guy’ Nissan Note owner asked me, “Aren’t they very slow those cars? I saw it on TG”…
Again appreciate the feedback and different angles.
My trip to Japan in March will no doubt send urges for another thoroughbred R from the 90’s…
Winter jetwash and some new OEM decals added to make it feel more like a Type R haha.
Anyone know if the OEM wheels are heavy?
I wonder if fitting a set of (possibly much) lighter wheels would make a difference to ride.
When I've used ultra light wheels on cars, they did seem to "glide" over rough surfaces and noticeably improve ride.
19s are a bit OTT anyway. Superlight 18s would be the way to go.
I wonder if fitting a set of (possibly much) lighter wheels would make a difference to ride.
When I've used ultra light wheels on cars, they did seem to "glide" over rough surfaces and noticeably improve ride.
19s are a bit OTT anyway. Superlight 18s would be the way to go.
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