RE: PH Meets: Tyrone Johnson

RE: PH Meets: Tyrone Johnson

Saturday 30th January 2016

PH Meets: Tyrone Johnson

Hungry for even more Focus RS geekery? Here's the inside line from programme manager Tyrone Johnson



If Ford Performance Vehicle Engineering Manager Tyrone Johnson has any concerns about rival products to the Focus RS he and his team have just created, they wouldn't appear to keep him awake at night. PR-briefed senior engineers are typically reluctant to discuss alternatives in the market but Johnson's 'bring it on' confidence in his product is infectious and refreshing. 

He's confident of his product, that's for sure!
He's confident of his product, that's for sure!
There are some seriously talented cars facing the RS though. Surely stuff like the new Civic Type R must be a concern? "Understeers," he says, grinning. OK. What about the all-wheel drive stuff like the A45 AMG? "We bought one. Boring." RS3? "Boring." Megane Renaultsport? A momentary pause. "Still understeers," he grins. 

"The AMG engine is good, so is the RS3's," he concedes, admitting he hasn't yet tried the updated 381hp A45. Of the current rivals only the SEAT Leon Cupra gets even a flicker of acknowledgement, Johnson saying its price, pace and VAQ 'diff' put it on the radar. Even if the inherent limitations of being front-driven mean, yes, it understeers. So what did inspire them? "We were looking at the Subaru and Evo as our objectives when we set out but we stopped. Boring! The only one we all came back to was the Escort RS, which is unusual - typically it's a modern car we benchmark."

Born in Germany but educated in the US and a Ford man of 31 years standing (including spells in F1 and WRC), Johnson would appear to be the embodiment of the global values the new RS stands for. This is, after all, a classically European performance car that needs to win over Americans. What better background could you ask for than a man who over the years has owned both classic Mustangs and Opel Mantas? 

Key to the Focus succeeding as a global product was going all-wheel drive. "When we started it was going to be front-wheel drive," he admits, "but I said it has to be all-wheel drive. And the right kind of all-wheel drive." Having tested and rejected Haldex type systems for only being able to manage torque front to back the search was on for something different. The GKN Twinster based Rear Drive Unit is off the shelf hardware used by Land Rover among others but the calibration is all Ford's. "Early on we actually had one out of an Evoque in a development car," says Johnson. "We broke it." GKN modified the system for the demands the Focus would place on it and Tyrone had his all-wheel drive hardware. 

Escort RS used as a benchmark, interestingly
Escort RS used as a benchmark, interestingly
"One of the things people ask all the time is how much torque to the back of the wheels," he says. "The 70 per cent we discuss is a product of the development; the system works constantly to try and understand what is the driver doing, what is the car doing and constantly adjusts the drive system. We've seen peaks of over 90 per cent but we claim 70 per cent as an average as what comes out after our calibration. Of that we can send up to 100 per cent to one side." 

The demands of the RS project were considerable but Johnson seems energised by the team he heads. "I've got some real crazies working for me," he laughs. "If you ever come to Lommel [Ford's Belgian development centre] just ask about Rambo..." This, it seems, is a flatbed Transit with 400hp going to its unladen rear wheels. It is, by all accounts, an even bigger handful than that sounds. And the kind of out of hours creativity Johnson says needs to be nurtured - and managed - into the production cars the team work on. 

One of the big challenges for the RS is that it's built on the same Saarlouis production line in Germany as all other Focus models. No special favours, no dedicated assembly facility for fitting bespoke components. And no flared arches or wider track. It's all got to fit down the line like any other Focus.  

Within those constraints the RS gets significant structural reinforcements, including 'lion's foot' brackets stiffening up the rear suspension turrets, foam-filled sills and a beefed up rear subframe. Locally stiffness is increased by as much as 200 per cent; overall it's 24 per cent stiffer than a standard Focus. Cross compatibility does offer advantages though - the best steering mechanism for the car turned out to be that from the C-Max. So in it goes, connected to a linear rack with two weightings according to the mode selected and calibrated with experience gained on Fiesta and Focus ST. 

Leon's combination of value and pace stood out
Leon's combination of value and pace stood out
To offer the range of ability Johnson wanted out of the RS two-mode dampers were considered essential. Continuously variable damping was rejected for its narrow range; the Tenneco items fitted are 40 per cent firmer in the Sport setting than they are in Normal. "Sport should be unbearable on the road," he shrugs. "I know some people who do use it but for me it's for smooth tracks only. By the same token if you drove it in Normal on a smooth track it would feel too soft." A Ferrari-style damper decoupling switch is provided on the column stalk if you want to go Sport on everything but keep the standard damping. For the Nurburgring the default Normal setting is preferred. Lap times are not being discussed but he does reveal the Cup 2 tyre option (a dealer accessory in the UK) is worth 10-12 seconds on a lap of the Nordschleife. 

Was a dual-clutch transmission ever considered? If it was Johnson is clear for why he didn't want it. "DCT advantages include faster acceleration but disadvantages would be weight," he says. "Weight on the front end means understeer. I don't want understeer." If you've read the review on the RS you'll know where he stands on that.  

Aero was important too. "The objectives were zero lift front and rear, not easy to achieve on a road car but we achieved it," he says. He's proud every styling feature on the car is functional too, from the brake cooling ducts at the front to the diffuser at the back - it's all there for a reason. Even the grille is more free-flowing than the ST's to promote cooling.  

FWD and fancy axle ditched for 4WD
FWD and fancy axle ditched for 4WD
Although derived from the 2.3-litre Ecoboost engine (also featured on the Zenos E10 R) the RS's motor is significantly altered. It began life as the Mustang engine and shares same architecture," explains Johnson, "but we had to reengineer it in terms of power and torque and ease of driving; durability had to be enhanced, sound is very important." To that end the exhaust route is near-straight to reduce back pressure - there's no central silencer either. Pity about the synthesised drone over the speakers though. Still, it does the numbers and gets a unique twin-scroll turbo, high-flow intake, dedicated oil cooler and different alloy for the cylinder head among the changes.  

"We were able to achieve all our power objectives we also have the overboost function," explains Johnson. "Effectively you have 347lb ft all the time - when are you ever on full throttle for more than 15 seconds? - but homologation numbers require steady state so we're not allowed to advertise that."

This is all pretty geeky stuff, admittedly, but reveals something of the challenge involved in achieving the considerable performance objectives within the constraints of a regular production line and aimed at a very punchy price point. For all the talk of mucking about with 400hp Transits on the Lommel test track Johnson's job is one demanding pragmatism and discipline. We'll permit him a little satisfaction at the smackdown it delivers to its rivals as a result. 

[Sources: GKN]

 

Author
Discussion

IanJ9375

Original Poster:

1,468 posts

216 months

Friday 22nd January 2016
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Seems confident they've done a decent job smile

MDMA .

8,895 posts

101 months

Friday 22nd January 2016
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wears a Garmin smart watch. more form over function. wonder if the car ends up the same ?

Steven_RW

1,729 posts

202 months

Tuesday 26th January 2016
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MDMA . said:
wears a Garmin smart watch. more form over function. wonder if the car ends up the same ?
Key observation...

Personally I really like the sound of it and look forward to driving ours in April ish time.

Cheers

SRW

Leins

9,467 posts

148 months

Tuesday 26th January 2016
quotequote all
IanJ9375 said:
Seems confident they've done a decent job smile
Seems very confident, some might say a little too confident wink

I might have missed it somewhere, but in amongst all the reviews, hype, speculation, tech specs, etc. I haven't seen the word "fun" being used much. Happy to be proven wrong, but he uses the word "boring" a lot to dismiss its rivals, so this most be one party animal of a car

Edited by Leins on Tuesday 26th January 11:57

Fuldhat

15 posts

99 months

Tuesday 26th January 2016
quotequote all
He talks alot about understeer, but the Focus RS also understeers as you can see and hear in the carthrottle video, so lets see some more track videos and then I am sure the verdict will be that it will also understeer.

Roma101

838 posts

147 months

Tuesday 26th January 2016
quotequote all
Confident or arrogant?

He obviously hasn't watched Chris Harris' car of the year 2014 video which features the Megane. Yes, I think we got a bit of oversteer there.

Shame that he has to be disparaging about the opposition. He will either be made to look a bit of a fool (if the other hatches are better/more fun) or a bad winner a la Mourinho (if indeed the Focus turns out to be better/more fun that the others).

thecremeegg

1,964 posts

203 months

Tuesday 26th January 2016
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So much hate on here for the new RS....what's caused it?

PHMatt

608 posts

148 months

Tuesday 26th January 2016
quotequote all
Fuldhat said:
He talks alot about understeer, but the Focus RS also understeers as you can see and hear in the carthrottle video, so lets see some more track videos and then I am sure the verdict will be that it will also understeer.
If it's sending up to 90% of it's power to the rear wheels, with below average weight over the front wheels and, providing it's wearing equal width tyres all round..... it's very unlikely to do anything close to understeer.


Splats

625 posts

162 months

Tuesday 26th January 2016
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I'm pretty sure any car will understeer if you barrel into a corner far to fast and saw at the steering wheel.

PHMatt

608 posts

148 months

Tuesday 26th January 2016
quotequote all
It looks as though he's said to get the hardware.... 4x4 and the power up but keep it in budget, £30k, they have sacrificed the look of the car.

The Escort Cosworth was almost entirely unique from the run of the mill Escort. It had a shortened Sapphire 4x4 chassis to incorporate the 4x4 system and longitudinally mounted engine and box.
The body only used the doors from the ordinary Escort if memory serves me correctly.

I'm sure in todays money it would have been more expensive than the Merc A45 AMG but quite a special car, in the ilk of the 1M Coupe.

As good as I'm sure this RS is, it's a bit too ordinary looking for my taste. I can't help but feel more love for the snarling mkii Focus RS.

PHMatt

608 posts

148 months

Tuesday 26th January 2016
quotequote all
Splats said:
I'm pretty sure any car will understeer if you barrel into a corner far to fast and saw at the steering wheel.
Would you call pushing on and understeer the same thing?
I would define pushing on as the inertial of the car over coming the grip of the wheels defeating the steering direction of the car.

I would define understeer as the power spinning the driven wheels, overcoming grip and losing control of the direction of steering with no vehicle inertia in the equation.

In my personal opinion, you have two totally different forces at work causing somewhat different outcomes. The latter can be overcome by more power being sent to the rear wheels and somehwhat big balls



PHMatt

608 posts

148 months

Tuesday 26th January 2016
quotequote all
Splats said:
I'm pretty sure any car will understeer if you barrel into a corner far to fast and saw at the steering wheel.
Would you call pushing on and understeer the same thing?
I would define pushing on as the inertial of the car over coming the grip of the wheels defeating the steering direction of the car.

I would define understeer as the power spinning the driven wheels, overcoming grip and losing control of the direction of steering with no vehicle inertia in the equation.

In my personal opinion, you have two totally different forces at work causing somewhat different outcomes. The latter can be overcome by more power being sent to the rear wheels and somehwhat big balls



Dan Trent

1,866 posts

168 months

Tuesday 26th January 2016
quotequote all
I'm interested in the reactions to Tyrone's comments - certainly he's got pride and more than a little belief in his product. But from our perspective it's a breath of fresh air to meet a senior exec and/or engineer with sufficient confidence to say - in blunt terms - why he thinks he's done a better job than the competition. They're usually so cowed by fear they'll end up in trouble with their PR bosses they avoid even naming other brands - when I interviewed his opposite number at VW Karsten Schebsdat about the Golf GTI Clubsport he wouldn't even say he used to work at Porsche, just that he had experience of working at a sports car builder in the south of Germany!

And I'm sure Tyrone has more respect for those products than the tone of his comments suggests, I think he was just being a little provocative and I quite enjoyed the fact he was being mischievous.

For the avoidance of doubt though - and as referenced in our Focus RS review - the cars did start to understeer towards the end of our track session. Where earlier you'd power through on turn-in and the car would rotate on the throttle through the same corner, same gear and same speed it just pushed on. I'm guessing the front tyres were overheated/shot and once that's happened no amount of rear torque bias is going to overcome the lack of grip at the front end. As MaxTorque pointed out in the thread too there's only so much you can do to overcome the fundamental balance of a car based on a front-driven, transverse-engined hatchback so I guess there comes a point there the front tyres are simply overloaded and call time.

I'm very interested to put this car on track with a Type R and/or Megane and see whether the traction/dynamic advantage of the RS's AWD offsets the c. 200kg weight penalty like for like. We'll look to do this ASAP.

Cheers,

Dan

Splats

625 posts

162 months

Tuesday 26th January 2016
quotequote all
PHMatt said:
Would you call pushing on and understeer the same thing?
I would define pushing on as the inertial of the car over coming the grip of the wheels defeating the steering direction of the car.

I would define understeer as the power spinning the driven wheels, overcoming grip and losing control of the direction of steering with no vehicle inertia in the equation.

In my personal opinion, you have two totally different forces at work causing somewhat different outcomes. The latter can be overcome by more power being sent to the rear wheels and somehwhat big balls
Never really thought about it before. I guess, I'm referring to pushing on (i.e. overcooking it). I quite like your definitions; makes things clearer. Based on those definitions, I think it's very unlikely the RS will understeer under power as it will simply brake the inside wheel and shuffle power to the outside rear.

Dan Trent

1,866 posts

168 months

Tuesday 26th January 2016
quotequote all
Splats said:
I think it's very unlikely the RS will understeer under power
See above! It will if you've cooked the tyres...

Dan

Roma101

838 posts

147 months

Tuesday 26th January 2016
quotequote all
Dan Trent said:
I'm interested in the reactions to Tyrone's comments - certainly he's got pride and more than a little belief in his product. But from our perspective it's a breath of fresh air to meet a senior exec and/or engineer with sufficient confidence to say - in blunt terms - why he thinks he's done a better job than the competition. They're usually so cowed by fear they'll end up in trouble with their PR bosses they avoid even naming other brands - when I interviewed his opposite number at VW Karsten Schebsdat about the Golf GTI Clubsport he wouldn't even say he used to work at Porsche, just that he had experience of working at a sports car builder in the south of Germany!

And I'm sure Tyrone has more respect for those products than the tone of his comments suggests, I think he was just being a little provocative and I quite enjoyed the fact he was being mischievous.

For the avoidance of doubt though - and as referenced in our Focus RS review - the cars did start to understeer towards the end of our track session. Where earlier you'd power through on turn-in and the car would rotate on the throttle through the same corner, same gear and same speed it just pushed on. I'm guessing the front tyres were overheated/shot and once that's happened no amount of rear torque bias is going to overcome the lack of grip at the front end. As MaxTorque pointed out in the thread too there's only so much you can do to overcome the fundamental balance of a car based on a front-driven, transverse-engined hatchback so I guess there comes a point there the front tyres are simply overloaded and call time.

I'm very interested to put this car on track with a Type R and/or Megane and see whether the traction/dynamic advantage of the RS's AWD offsets the c. 200kg weight penalty like for like. We'll look to do this ASAP.

Cheers,

Dan
Dan, I hear what you are saying about him and perhaps it was just the way the article was written! Sorry!

Putting that caveat aside, he is not having a chat down the pub with his mates. He is giving a proper interview in a professional capacity to some industry journalists. To then start slagging off the opposition as he did is pretty crass IMO, irrespective of what his thoughts are. He could have been a bit more tactful and still got his message across.

If I had done that in my industry...well, I would not have even considered it. It would be a stupid move.

RacerMike

4,204 posts

211 months

Tuesday 26th January 2016
quotequote all
Dan Trent said:
For the avoidance of doubt though - and as referenced in our Focus RS review - the cars did start to understeer towards the end of our track session. Where earlier you'd power through on turn-in and the car would rotate on the throttle through the same corner, same gear and same speed it just pushed on. I'm guessing the front tyres were overheated/shot and once that's happened no amount of rear torque bias is going to overcome the lack of grip at the front end. As MaxTorque pointed out in the thread too there's only so much you can do to overcome the fundamental balance of a car based on a front-driven, transverse-engined hatchback so I guess there comes a point there the front tyres are simply overloaded and call time.
To be fair to the Focus, even a GT4 Aston Martin on slicks will eventually push on when the tyres are shot. Once you loose the edges or overheat the carcass of the tyre, you just won't generate enough lateral force when turning the wheels to get to the point where you can get oversteer.

nickfrog

21,140 posts

217 months

Tuesday 26th January 2016
quotequote all
PHMatt said:
Splats said:
I'm pretty sure any car will understeer if you barrel into a corner far to fast and saw at the steering wheel.
Would you call pushing on and understeer the same thing?
I would define pushing on as the inertial of the car over coming the grip of the wheels defeating the steering direction of the car.

I would define understeer as the power spinning the driven wheels, overcoming grip and losing control of the direction of steering with no vehicle inertia in the equation.

In my personal opinion, you have two totally different forces at work causing somewhat different outcomes. The latter can be overcome by more power being sent to the rear wheels and somehwhat big balls
It all boils down to understanding the traction circle, which you clearly do - traction and lateral grip are often confused though, even though they overlap.

sidesauce

2,475 posts

218 months

Tuesday 26th January 2016
quotequote all
Roma101 said:
He is giving a proper interview in a professional capacity to some industry journalists. To then start slagging off the opposition as he did is pretty crass IMO, irrespective of what his thoughts are. He could have been a bit more tactful and still got his message across.
'Boring' or 'understeers' used to describe the competition are not words I would associate with being crass, even in this context, especially if it's the truth (which sometimes hurts). If he'd said 'crap' for example I'd then say he was being crass. And, to be fair, he did acknowledge the fact that both the cars he called 'boring' also had great engines. Brusque? Certainly. Crass? Not really.

ash reynolds

469 posts

191 months

Tuesday 26th January 2016
quotequote all
Great spec and dynamics, as far as I've read. Need to start seeing some back to back testing with the usual suspects now. There's almost been too much chat about this to date.
Dash and interior (specifically coloured panels on seats) are truly awful. Should have changed the recipe for the interior materials and design.
Only in my opinion of course! biggrin