RE: Is there hope for the 718 Boxster? PH Blog

RE: Is there hope for the 718 Boxster? PH Blog

Thursday 28th January 2016

Is there hope for the 718 Boxster? PH Blog

As petrolheads and millennials battle for the heart and soul of the sports car whose side is the new 718 Boxster really on?



I had really high hopes for the four-cylinder Boxster. There's the obvious caveat that we haven't driven it yet and I'll try to remain optimistic for when we do get behind the wheel. But it's taken a bit of a knock.

It's not helped by Porsche's official marketing spiel evoking the 718 Spyder the new four-cylinder Boxster range is named after. Mainly because I rather hoped the new Boxster really would be a modern day 718 Spyder in more than just name. My dream was of something like the 987 Boxster Spyder, embracing the weight advantages of a smaller engine, exploiting the improved dynamics of reduced mass, simplified and running smaller, skinnier wheels with focus and feedback compensating for the sacrifice in cylinders and cubic capacity.

The spirit of this...
The spirit of this...
If Porsche had the courage of its convictions here we could have something like a premium-badged Lotus Elise, a tad heavier perhaps but blessed with favourable weight distribution from longitudinal boxer four and just enough fancy trimmings to meet customer expectations. Or, given the Boxster's price point, perhaps an Alfa 4C type car with substance (steering and suspension you can actually live with spring to mind) to back up the style.

Instead I rather fear we have an attempt to distract from the loss of a defining character feature with some big on-paper performance gains and gimmicks like a push to pass button. Watch Porsche's 'For the sport of it' promo vid and try and maintain your sense of optimism. I rather fear referencing the original 718 smacks of exploiting brand heritage rather than respecting it. The fact much of the inspirational driving footage is about posing around town says a lot. And, wait, that Porsche-scriptedrear wing doesn't actually retract into the bodywork when you park up? Oh.

...and a little of this! Job jobbed!
...and a little of this! Job jobbed!
I said as much about the turbocharged 911 but at the kind of speeds you could realistically expect on a dealer-based test drive the torque-heavy low-down punch of these new cars will flatter them in comparison with the normally-aspirated ones. If you're an existing owner it'll feel immediately 'faster'. If you're a first-timer graduating from a turbo hot hatch or premium turbodiesel saloon it'll live up to your expectations of what a modern sports car should feel like. But on a proper drive will it prickle the hairs on your neck the same way? There's a hint of noise in this vid but it won't do much to calm fears the driving experience has all gone a bit videogame-like. Meanwhile the forum debate raging after our initial story on the car's announcement has taken a turn for the existential and is well worth reading - it seems no less than an inter-generational battle for the soul of the sports car is looming between petrolheads and the up and coming millennials!

But I'm kidding myself really. The 718s are based on the existing Boxster so a fundamental change in character, weight, wheel size and focus was never going to happen. The only course of action available to Porsche is to hope sizeable performance gains and extra gizmos will compensate for the loss of what was a unique selling point at this price level. If Porsche can pull this off - and a boxer four with a variable vane turbo sounds like the kind of thing that could restore my optimism - it'll be some triumph and I'll gladly eat my words.

We'll see...

Dan

718 Boxster promo vid with a bit of engine noise

'For the sport of it' 718 Boxster promo vid





718 Spyder image: LAT Photo

Author
Discussion

NDNDNDND

Original Poster:

2,000 posts

182 months

Thursday 28th January 2016
quotequote all
I couldn't finish watching that promo video. It made me cringe: all that button tweaking and mode shifting made it look like an Xbox controller had been fitted in a car with an automatic gearbox.

Maybe that's what the marketing men think people want. It used to be that video games emulated cars, now it looks like cars are emulating Forza...

Still, as many have said before, the demographic who buy these cars don't want a better car to drive, they want a car with bigger numbers on the spec sheet. A car that looks sporty, but drives like a family saloon.

james_tigerwoods

16,287 posts

196 months

Thursday 28th January 2016
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The rear of that reminds me greatly of the front of a Scirocco...

tadaah

214 posts

210 months

Thursday 28th January 2016
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james_tigerwoods said:
The rear of that reminds me greatly of the front of a Scirocco...
You are right!

Joking aside I find this completely undesirable. I've had three 987s all of which were great and hugely influenced by the character of the flat six.

Aside from all the nonsense about it "not being a real sportscar" being written on fora in a number of places, the fundamental problem is the lack of that engine. I don't much like the restyle but I can 100% say I have zero interest in a four cylinder boxster.

I commented to a dealer that it was "sad" to which he said "what could be sad about a mid-engined Porsche with 300bhp?" .

It's not all about the performance in numbers is it?? That's what's sad

sidesauce

2,456 posts

217 months

Thursday 28th January 2016
quotequote all
NDNDNDND said:
Maybe that's what the marketing men think the VW share-holders want.
EFA

This car will sell. And sell. And then sell some more.

tadaah

214 posts

210 months

Thursday 28th January 2016
quotequote all
sidesauce said:
FA

This car will sell. And sell. And then sell some more.
Undoubtedly. Just to (possibly) a different audience

Guvernator

13,104 posts

164 months

Thursday 28th January 2016
quotequote all
As I said in the other thread, no one's driven the new one yet so I'll give Porsche the benefit of the doubt BUT I'm yet to drive a modern turbocharged 4 pot that I find exciting and this includes the new Civic Type R, a car made by what some would call the masters of exciting 4 pots. On that basis if this new Boxster engine is as characterful as the old N\A one, I'll eat my hat.

However the majority of the buyers won't care one bit, as the poster above said, this one will sell and sell, Porsche will feel fully justified in their decision and so the cycle will continue.

GTEYE

2,092 posts

209 months

Thursday 28th January 2016
quotequote all
tadaah said:
sidesauce said:
FA

This car will sell. And sell. And then sell some more.
Undoubtedly. Just to (possibly) a different audience
Although was anyone particularly put off 944s and 968s when they were all 4 pots?

I think some of the comments are perhaps a little hysterical - I have faith in Porsche not to let its fans or customers down!

And lets remember, its the legislators that are forcing this, so Porsche has to adapt, and smaller turbo engines are the only cost effective way of achieving this.

Leins

9,415 posts

147 months

Thursday 28th January 2016
quotequote all
GTEYE said:
Although was anyone particularly put off 944s and 968s when they were all 4 pots?
I seem to recall quite a few were. I'll still take a 968 Turbo S though thanks

D200

514 posts

146 months

Thursday 28th January 2016
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I expect the a lot of the ph high post count massive to say it’s now completely and utterly ruined as it doesn’t have 6 cylinders. This is beyond ridiculous.

News Flash - Cylinder count doesn’t make good.

It’s just a pile of pretentious know-it-all snobs who probably have no intention of ever buying the car anyway but just like to slag it off. I don’t think many people who are considering buying brand new Boxster [or Cayman] will not be put off by the fact it’s now flat 4 turbo, some will, but it will be a tiny miniscule minority.

Small things like handling, performance, braking, steering, looks, interior etc also count – in my opinion they matter MORE than cylinder count not less.

It’s the same as saying all V12s better than all V8’s – personally I don’t think that is the case, but I guess if that’s all you care about fair enough, each to their own.

I haven’t driven or heard the new boxster [nor has anyone outside Porsche] but I suspect and hope it will be a great drive and will be very surprised if the engine is terrible, but I won’t be an idiot and judge it before it’s ever been driven

I think the previous Boxster’s are slightly overrated, performance wise. I drove a couple and I would be glad of some shove that will make it feel fast [well have not driven a GT4 excluded, maybe it feels fast – as it has a 911 engine]. They just don’t feel that fast, and if you are spending 50k + on a performance car you want it to feel fast, well I would anyway [plus handle well as they do].

This new Boxster S has 911 996 Turbo performance for just over 50k and will probably average a real-world 30 mpg and so on

Wait for the reviews or better still a test drive it before slating it

If it turns out to be rubbish then fair enough, but wait until then.

Then if you are such a cylinder snob go and won’t even look at this car due to fact it’s a flat 4 then go buy a 100k 911

The Wookie

13,909 posts

227 months

Thursday 28th January 2016
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To be honest I'm not going to start passing judgement until at least the reviews come out but I'm concerned that they're digging up historic racing cars with the same engine layout to justify the change.

MikeGalos

261 posts

283 months

Thursday 28th January 2016
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GTEYE said:
And lets remember, its the legislators that are forcing this, so Porsche has to adapt, and smaller turbo engines are the only cost effective way of achieving this.
No. The legislators created a technical challenge and Porsche chose this as the way to achieve it. And, let's also be fair, for a car at this price range they didn't have to choose the least expensive solution. (I didn't see them go to a 4 cylinder for the 911)

Realistically, they could have used this change as a chance, as the article states, to produce an actual sports car out of the mid-engine line instead of continuing the drive toward making every model a piece of jewelry for the club valet to park near the entrance.

Guvernator

13,104 posts

164 months

Thursday 28th January 2016
quotequote all
MikeGalos said:
No. The legislators created a technical challenge and Porsche chose this as the way to achieve it. And, let's also be fair, for a car at this price range they didn't have to choose the least expensive solution. (I didn't see them go to a 4 cylinder for the 911)

Realistically, they could have used this change as a chance, as the article states, to produce an actual sports car out of the mid-engine line instead of continuing the drive toward making every model a piece of jewelry for the club valet to park near the entrance.
^^^^ This exactly, nobody is "forcing" Porsche or anyone else for that matter to go down this route, they've chosen the path of least resistance as it's easy, which I can almost understand if you are building a £20k hatchback but I expect a bit more from the Porsche engineers.

tankplanker

2,479 posts

278 months

Thursday 28th January 2016
quotequote all
Cylinder count has nothing to do with it, its the way the engine delivers power. Ferrari with its new turbo engines have mapped the power delivery to be similar to the corresponding old NA engine so you get a progressive ramping up of power as the revs rise rather than the flat delivery of torque that Porsche have gone for.

It smacks of number chasing from Porsche and isn't a game worth playing as we are now in the era of ~£30k hot hatches with 4 second 0-60 times. Stats by themselves aren't a USP anymore, a driving experience no hot hatch can offer should be all the USP needed.


MikeGalos

261 posts

283 months

Thursday 28th January 2016
quotequote all
So what they're really saying is:

59 years ago when we were a sports car company we created a successful 1,250lb mid-engined sports racer with a 1.5 liter twin cam engine and a 5-speed. It was state of the art for the late 1950s. Today we're announcing an update to our low-end line that weighs as much as two and a half of those sports racers, has an engine that's 30% larger and has our name on a big banner on the rear. Because we think you won't know the difference between an ultra-light sports racer and a bloated boulevard cruiser we're naming the new line in honour of that car from six decades ago. Give us your money.

sandysinclair

303 posts

206 months

Thursday 28th January 2016
quotequote all
Unspeakably awful in pretty much every way and sounds DULL.... Car will be brilliant technically but I'm afraid it's a bit like giving the next Ferrari Dino an in line 5 cyl engine and talk about how few carbon dioxides it emits. Wrong wrong wrong No No. Lordy how Porsche have got this one wrong.....

D200

514 posts

146 months

Thursday 28th January 2016
quotequote all
The fact it’s a flat four should make it sound more interesting and better than an A45 AMG for example. Plus it half relates to some heritage Porsche have.

Personally I like the 718 Boxster name, smart move by Porsche. I don’t know why this causes such offense to many people. Have you all $3M+ 1959 718’s and feel this new Boxster 718 massively devalues your car?

Or do you own the copyright to the 718 name?

And when you say 20k hatch back, I don’t know of many new 20k hatchbacks [a golf or focus TDI costs 20k nowadays!] that hit 60 in 4.2 seconds. An AMG A45 costs nearly the same as a Boxster S and it’s basically a fwd hatch made 4wd

The A45 is expensive and overpriced, a Boxster S is as nearly good value in comparison

tadaah

214 posts

210 months

Thursday 28th January 2016
quotequote all
tankplanker said:
Cylinder count has nothing to do with it, its the way the engine delivers power.
Nope

I want a multi-cylinder engine. That is why i chose my first three boxsters over other sports cars. Its why my daily driver is a six cylinder diesel rather than a four too. I like the sound of multi-cylinder engines.

The boxster will still no doubt have great handling and everything else that the 981 has, its the engine chenge I dont want

No, spending £100k on a 911 isnt an option, sadly...

Oh, yes. Have never wanted a 944, 924 or 912. Yes because I like my (relatively expensive) sports cars to have a nice sounding engine!

tadaah

214 posts

210 months

Thursday 28th January 2016
quotequote all
Guvernator said:
MikeGalos said:
No. The legislators created a technical challenge and Porsche chose this as the way to achieve it. And, let's also be fair, for a car at this price range they didn't have to choose the least expensive solution. (I didn't see them go to a 4 cylinder for the 911)

Realistically, they could have used this change as a chance, as the article states, to produce an actual sports car out of the mid-engine line instead of continuing the drive toward making every model a piece of jewelry for the club valet to park near the entrance.
^^^^ This exactly, nobody is "forcing" Porsche or anyone else for that matter to go down this route, they've chosen the path of least resistance as it's easy, which I can almost understand if you are building a £20k hatchback but I expect a bit more from the Porsche engineers.
Doesn't the emissions targets nonsense still apply at corporate level anyway? In which case VW could have thrown some 1 cylinder UPs out instead :-)

Rawwr

22,722 posts

233 months

Thursday 28th January 2016
quotequote all
tadaah said:
Nope

I want a multi-cylinder engine. That is why i chose my first three boxsters over other sports cars. Its why my daily driver is a six cylinder diesel rather than a four too. I like the sound of multi-cylinder engines.
I agree. Those single cylinder engines you find in the majority of cars do sound a bit agricultural.

tadaah

214 posts

210 months

Thursday 28th January 2016
quotequote all
Rawwr said:
I agree. Those single cylinder engines you find in the majority of cars do sound a bit agricultural.
Comedic genius. To be fair most agricultural engines have more than one cylinder. You'd be looking at canal boats or mowers for singles