RE: Audi S3 v Seat Leon Cupra R: Blood Bros

RE: Audi S3 v Seat Leon Cupra R: Blood Bros

Monday 8th February 2016

Audi S3 v Seat Leon Cupra R: Blood Bros

More dash for your cash, or more posh for your dosh?



Premium is the new mainstream, even in the hot hatch sector. A new generation of image-conscious drivers mean the days hot hatch buyers cared only about their car's dynamics are long gone.

No surprise then Audi's S3 has a strong following. Ironically though this popularity has made it actually less exclusive. So if you fancy a fast VW Group hot hatch with true rarity value then you need to look elsewhere - to the SEAT Leon Cupra R in fact. Not seen many of them on the road? Not surprising. Leon Cupra R sales were dwarfed by those of its Audi S3 cousin (and VW's Golf R stablemate too for that matter) making the five-door SEAT the hot hatch choice of the discerning few. Yet under the bonnet you'll find the very same 265hp EA113 2.0-litre turbo, offering similar performance and tuning capability.


Family tree
Audi's second-generation 8P S3 was the first of these blood brothers to reach UK shores, arriving late in 2006 armed with a host of improvements over the first-generation model. With a revised four-wheel drive system, the 265hp three-door reached 62mph in just 5.7 seconds yet could readily return high-30s mpg on a run.

Audi launched earlier than SEAT, and sold more
Audi launched earlier than SEAT, and sold more
Late 2008 saw the S3 receive a facelift, with sharper styling and an upgraded four-wheel drive system. This coincided with the launch of a five-door Sportback version and, for an extra £1,450, you could now have a faster-changing DSG gearbox (S Tronic in Audi speak) in your S3. Power remained at 265hp though, with the three-door S3 priced at £28,920, and the five-door Sportback at £29,420.

Plusher still Black Editions were made available from 2010, with upgraded Bose stereos, unique exterior and interior trim plus different alloys, before the second-generation S3 made way for the current EA888 powered model in 2013 - by which time Audi had shifted an extraordinary 12,168 examples.

SEAT's Leon Cupra R rival didn't go on sale until November 2009, with the first UK customer deliveries in early 2010. And with the Audi S3 already well-established (and VW's Golf R launched at a similar time) SEAT - not surprisingly - found sales relatively hard to come by. But the price looked attractive at just £26,005 and the spec was a match for the prestigious S3.

 

 

Performance from the near-identical engine wasn't far short of the S3 either, even with power going to just the front wheels. 0-62mph took 6.2 seconds en route to a 155mph limited top speed; fuel economy was marginally better than the Audi's.

In addition the Leon claimed more striking exterior styling, arch-filling 19-inch alloys as standard and distinctive 'R' branding on the central grille, instrument dials and the remote key. August 2011 saw extra kit added to the Cupra R's already bulging spec list, including SEAT's latest media system, Bluetooth connectivity, bi-xenon headlights and LED rear-light clusters. But sales volumes remained relatively low - with just 360 Leon Cupra Rs sold by the time the current Leon Cupra 280 appeared in March 2014.


Brothers in arms
The common strands of automotive DNA are clearly visible; both are built on VW's Group's PQ35 platform and possess almost identical versions of the 265hp EA113 engine. Sharing some common steering, transmission and suspension gear, as well as a few electrical components, the similarities might appear to far outweigh the differences. But each company's development engineers retained final control over their own products. All SEAT Leon Cupra Rs were built at SEAT's Martorell plant in Spain whilst the second-generation Audi S3 was completely assembled at Ingolstadt in Bavaria.

And the successful blueprint continues to this day, the latest incarnations of these two rivals - the 300hp Audi S3 and the SEAT Leon Cupra 280 - still share a common platform (VW's new MQB) and the latest chain-cam EA888 engine, yet are very different final products.


Family feud
On the road you might reasonably expect Audi's three-door S3 to have the edge over a five-door SEAT, but actually it's the Leon Cupra R that offers greater excitement. There's a lack of emotional appeal from behind the wheel of the Audi. Sure, it delivers extremely rapid progress - in all weathers - while feeling refined and a clear notch ahead of the Leon in terms of cabin quality. Who'd have guessed and all that.

S3 still fairly subtle, even in orange!
S3 still fairly subtle, even in orange!
But the S3 comes second in terms of driver involvement - there's no special wow factor that the very best hot hatches always seem to possess. And the ride seems even firmer than the Cupra R's on rough surfaces.

Four-wheel drive means the S3 is easy to pilot with complete confidence, and performance in a straight line is impressive despite the extra transmission mass. But when it comes to cornering the Audi feels more FWD than RWD, in spite of the 'official' 40:60 front/rear drive set-up, and the steering lacks feel. While sometimes struggling to put all that power through the front wheels the Cupra R still manages to deliver near-identical performance while feeling much more lively. There's better steering feedback and greater chassis adjustability, while the SEAT's brakes behave in a more reassuring manner too.

The Audi's predictably conservative lines clearly sold well to the mainstream but there's flair and excitement about the Cupra R's styling that reflects its more dynamic character. If the practical aspects of hot hatch ownership sway you towards the S3 then think again - the Leon has greater cabin space and is not only cheaper to buy but also offers higher residual values. Thanks perhaps in part to its relative rarity. The SEAT also emits marginally less CO2 and (just) pips the S3 at the pumps too. Guess which is cheaper to service?

A clear victory for the Leon Cupra R then? Well not entirely.

 

 

The S3 does power out of corners more quickly and confidently, and with plenty more decent used examples around to choose from you can easily find an S3 with a spec and colour that fits your own particular tastes. Greater supply also means more chance of a decent discount. Note that the cheapest brand-new S3 is £30,940 - so don't be tempted to pay more than £23K for a second-generation example, however attractive.

But when it comes to tuning potential these two VW cousins cannot be split - less than £500 spent on either car delivers 315hp and 333lb ft (via a simple remap) whilst for a further £225 you can even have your S3's DSG system completely remapped by a VW/Audi specialist.

There are of course other options in this price bracket for the hot hatch connoisseur, not least from within VW's own stable. But in this family fight it's the Leon Cupra R - rather than the Audi S3 - that ticks the most boxes.

 


 

 

 

 


AUDI S3 (THREE-DOOR HATCH)
Engine
: 1,984cc 4-cyl turbo
Power (hp): 265@6,000rpm
Torque (lb ft): 258@2,500-5000rpm
Transmission: 6-speed manual/S-Tronic
Kerb weight: 1,455kg
Top Speed: 155mph
0-62mph: 5.7secs (5.5 S Tronic)
MPG (NEDC combined): 33.2*(34.0 S Tronic)
CO2: 199g/km* (193g/km S Tronic)
Price: £9,995 to £24,995
Manufactured: 2006-2012
*2008 UK model
Love it: A desirable all-round package
Loathe it: Doesn't deliver enough thrills
Spotted : Imola Yellow Audi S3, 60K miles, fresh MoT, £12,995

SEAT LEON CUPRA R
Engine
: 1,984cc 4-cyl turbo
Power (hp): 265@6,000rpm
Torque (lb ft): 258@2,500-5000rpm
Transmission: 6-speed manual
Kerb weight: 1,450kg
Top Speed: 155mph
0-62mph: 6.2secs
MPG (NEDC combined): 34.8
CO2: 190g/km
Price: £12,495 to £17,995
Manufactured: 2009-2013
Love it: Stands out from the hot-hatch crowd
Loathe it: Tricky to fully exploit the car's potential
Spotted: Black 2010 SEAT Leon Cupra R, 62K miles, four new Michelin tyres, £12,500

 

Many thanks to Andy Leicester, Seat Cupra, Audi Sport and the Gaydon Heritage MotorCentre for their help with this feature

Author
Discussion

davidcharles

Original Poster:

400 posts

193 months

Monday 8th February 2016
quotequote all
can't explain why but i think i would take the S3, just not in that orange colour.

moffat

1,020 posts

224 months

Monday 8th February 2016
quotequote all
"yet could readily return high-30s mpg on a run"

Yeah right... driven at 56mph cruise control it might get mid 30's.

Charlie1986

2,016 posts

134 months

Monday 8th February 2016
quotequote all
Looks like the direct debit from VAG has cleared

SteA

251 posts

225 months

Monday 8th February 2016
quotequote all
We have the 265 facelift version of both of these cars, suits us perfectly having a young family. Mine is the Cupra R and maybe not surprisingly I think it wipes the floor with the S3, the LCR just performs so much better and is brilliant fun, it's also a very nice place to be! The wife on the other hand loves the S3, lighter controls and the Audi styling...

It isn't often I would choose to take the S3 over the LCR!

Kitchski

6,514 posts

230 months

Monday 8th February 2016
quotequote all
article said:
Premium is the new mainstream, even in the hot hatch sector. A new generation of image-conscious drivers mean the days hot hatch buyers cared only about their car's dynamics are long gone.
And that's why I don't give a fk about either of these cars!

Kitchski

6,514 posts

230 months

Monday 8th February 2016
quotequote all
Charlie1986 said:
Looks like the direct debit from VAG has cleared
laugh

B10

1,225 posts

266 months

Monday 8th February 2016
quotequote all
davidcharles said:
can't explain why but i think i would take the S3, just not in that orange colour.
To me the orange is great. Better that the normal tarmac and silver coloured versions that are most popular.
I have been looking the 5 door 3.2 V6 A3s as a family car to replace the Mini Cooper S JCW now that another child is on the way.

pfnsht

2,131 posts

174 months

Monday 8th February 2016
quotequote all
Cupra R for me, but I quite like SEAT's styling in general as I think it's just that little be different to the rest of the VAG group to make it interesting.


davidcharles

Original Poster:

400 posts

193 months

Monday 8th February 2016
quotequote all
B10 said:
To me the orange is great. Better that the normal tarmac and silver coloured versions that are most popular.
I have been looking the 5 door 3.2 V6 A3s as a family car to replace the Mini Cooper S JCW now that another child is on the way.
to me the point of the S Audi's is their understated looks ...so having it in orange kind of defeats the point.

its a "look at me colour" for a "don't look at me" car.

tbh though i think they are a too understated...but each to their own

Cupramax

10,469 posts

251 months

Monday 8th February 2016
quotequote all
davidcharles said:
can't explain why but i think i would take the S3, just not in that orange colour.
I can, the mk2 Leon is gopping tongue out

M1C

1,832 posts

110 months

Monday 8th February 2016
quotequote all
I really rate these Leon Cupra Rs.

I used to work for a VW dealer and we also had a SEAT franchise, so i drove the Golf GTI, R (MK6), Scirocco R and the Leon as above.

The Leon...to drive was my absolute favourite.

Sure it didnt have the plush interiors or quite as much refinement..but it was such a fun, 'raw' car to drive, superb.

I also had the chance to get a new one for £18k....which i bottled....bah!

graham22

3,293 posts

204 months

Monday 8th February 2016
quotequote all
I think it's the shape of the Leon which makes it unpopular, it's too Renault Scenic.

Appreciate Seat did the Altea but the Leon looks too similar to it whereas the previous and current models both look like proper small/medium hatchbacks.

Throw price into the comparison, say £20,000 where the new shape Leon will be against a late previous S3 - that would be interesting.



The thing that really gets me about the A3/S3 is I used to own a 2005 2.0T S-Line and not so long ago bought a 2004 5 door SE model as a temporary hack - not only was the view from the dash was the same on them both, it was also the same on a £22k S3 I drove recently.

Captainawesome

1,817 posts

162 months

Monday 8th February 2016
quotequote all
My wife used to drive a 2011 S3 sport back....Fast enough car but by God did it suck fuel if you were going quickly. I had an e46 M3 at the same time and the S3 was thirstier than that. More posing value than driving enjoyment.. it was white too. Women seemed to love it. Me, not so much.

dlockhart

434 posts

171 months

Monday 8th February 2016
quotequote all
the AWD vs FWD argument is always for me going to AWD - the mini quatro for me thanks

macky17

2,210 posts

188 months

Monday 8th February 2016
quotequote all
Both decent cars but neither has much in the way of steering feel. Worth mentioning that the 265bhp Cupra R has a more forgiving suspension than the lesser/earlier cupras (before 2010) which were really crashy. I'd have the Seat - looks better and love the seats.

Would never have thought it until recently, but mk2 Focus ST with MP260 pack is more exciting to drive than either of them. I tried all three (and many others) and chose this a few weeks ago. The the correct suspension geometry the Ford is very impressive.

idjbell

10 posts

198 months

Monday 8th February 2016
quotequote all
I've owned both. Started with a near brand new S3. Loved it for about a month, then found it a bit dull. Yes on a rainy day you could show a clean pair of heels to any FWD hot hatch, but nothing made you want to drive it fast and on a dry day you won't be pulling away from anyone.

I changed that for a LCR and now I'm on my second- they are that good.

The speeds are the same in the dry, EVO tested both, the LCR was faster by 0.1 second in every test apart from 0-30mph where the 4WD gave the S3 the only advantage over the whole speed range.

The S3 claimed to be more economical via the dash- I get about 2mpg less in the LCR- which isn't how I thought it would go. But I think the LCR makes you drive a little harder.

Used values for a 62 plate of either will be vastly different, so if you can find a low mileage LCR you won't regret it!

kambites

67,460 posts

220 months

Monday 8th February 2016
quotequote all
moffat said:
"yet could readily return high-30s mpg on a run"

Yeah right... driven at 56mph cruise control it might get mid 30's.
Hmm, our Octavia VRS will do high 30s easily on a longish drive and mid-40s if you're really careful. I know the Audi is heavier and more highly tuned but I doubt it'd be that much worse?

Darren61

82 posts

155 months

Monday 8th February 2016
quotequote all
I own an 8P S3 (as pictured) but in Sprint Blue. Having come from French cars before that, the refinement and quality is fantastic and for a 57' plate car it's still nicer in terms of quality than some much more modern cars I've driven.

Saying all of that, it is brilliant fun to plant your foot and go, although this does become slightly repetitive, it doesn't have that 'magic driving spark' that my Clio 182 had, or my Megane R26. Those two I felt excited to drive. The S3 however just does pretty much everything really well but doesn't get your pulse racing in the same way as the RenaultSport stuff did.

JockySteer

1,407 posts

115 months

Monday 8th February 2016
quotequote all
Leon for me. Probably my inner boy racer speaking though.

TORQ

188 posts

228 months

Monday 8th February 2016
quotequote all
Both were on my recent shopping list. Ruled out the S3 due to under steer and dull drive. The Seat simply because of the dreadful centre console. It is like a mid 90s Akai Dixons tape deck. Otherwise it would have been ace.

Went for a like new R32 with Recaro wingbacks. Just felt special...