Challenge - which mainstream manufacturer used this
Discussion
Easily rotted steel section on their cars ? Probably in the door window area, and manufacture will have started before 1974.
I'm trying to find out if a) it's still in production or b) there's a decent sized market for getting some made up.
It was used by a few low volume manufacturers for door window frames over the years, but the number of those cars left doesn't make it economically viable to start production again, so we'd like to know if any volume manufacturers used something similar/identical which we can either acquire or whose owners we could invite to join our quest to find a replacement.
I'm trying to find out if a) it's still in production or b) there's a decent sized market for getting some made up.
It was used by a few low volume manufacturers for door window frames over the years, but the number of those cars left doesn't make it economically viable to start production again, so we'd like to know if any volume manufacturers used something similar/identical which we can either acquire or whose owners we could invite to join our quest to find a replacement.
How long does a straight section need to be? I recently saw your post in another section on here that goes back some time, and I did wonder whether having someone who knows how to use a bead roller might provide the solution. Having a requirement for a very long dead straight section makes that a harder job obviously.
There's nothing on my Vauxhalls like it - the window channel around the top of the door isn't a million miles away (apart from only having one of the top sections - it's an inverted U on the bottom, with a vertical up the outside). But that's not a straight section, or is it separate to the door itself.
I recall you mentioned in the other thread that it needs to be quite strong, so finding someone that makes aluminium window frames for stuff like greenhouses isn't going to help.
There's nothing on my Vauxhalls like it - the window channel around the top of the door isn't a million miles away (apart from only having one of the top sections - it's an inverted U on the bottom, with a vertical up the outside). But that's not a straight section, or is it separate to the door itself.
I recall you mentioned in the other thread that it needs to be quite strong, so finding someone that makes aluminium window frames for stuff like greenhouses isn't going to help.
The longest run is about 1850mm but, TBH, if we could get it in any length it can be cut, bent, welded, hammered until it does the job.
It just occurred to me that the low volume manufacturers might have "re-used" someone else's profile for their own purposes. The closest we could find at the Restoration show was either on a 911 (channel between front quarterlight and drop glass) or a Fiat X1/9.
We know that the original supplier was a major supplier to the British automotive industry in period, though.
It just occurred to me that the low volume manufacturers might have "re-used" someone else's profile for their own purposes. The closest we could find at the Restoration show was either on a 911 (channel between front quarterlight and drop glass) or a Fiat X1/9.
We know that the original supplier was a major supplier to the British automotive industry in period, though.
marshalla, what car is this from/what is the pressing used for/do you have any pictures of the pressing fitted in situ? there are a number of small engineering co's out there that can press this form for you...the structure is not complex, nor the rolled edging. the more info the better...
edited yo add, have you contacted John Yeo at British Motor Heritage? whilst they may not know the manufacturer BMH knows most industry suppliers.
edited yo add, have you contacted John Yeo at British Motor Heritage? whilst they may not know the manufacturer BMH knows most industry suppliers.
Edited by v8250 on Wednesday 9th March 13:57
v8250 said:
marshalla, what car is this from/what is the pressing used for/do you have any pictures of the pressing fitted in situ? there are a number of small engineering co's out there that can press this form for you...the structure is not complex, nor the rolled edging. the more info the better...
edited yo add, have you contacted John Yeo at British Motor Heritage? whilst they may not know the manufacturer BMH knows most industry suppliers.
It's used as a window frame by a number of smaller British manufacturers from the early 1970s through to around 2004. The best known is probably Lotus, but we believe that Reliant also used it.edited yo add, have you contacted John Yeo at British Motor Heritage? whilst they may not know the manufacturer BMH knows most industry suppliers.
I know who originally made it, but that firm is long gone. If you know of someone who can reproduce it at a sensible price, I'd love to have their contact details, please.
This has been slowly driving me mad for the last 4 years, and most people I've contacted either tell me that it's too complex for them to attempt, or too expensive to be worthwhile, hence my post here asking if anyone knows of a major manufacturer who used it.
On a positive note, we aren't many years away from us all owning a 3D printer. Went to the dentist in the morning, had work done, went back in the afternoon and had two new crowns fitted. Told me the printer was around £15,000 I think, but the running costs are minimal. Jay Leno had one years back for nylon. I feel the end of the small specialist manufacturer is not far away.
I guess you've been down this road before, but back in the 90's we needed a special profile not dissimilar to yours, these were able to help:
http://steelsections.co.uk/
http://steelsections.co.uk/
bomma220 said:
I guess you've been down this road before, but back in the 90's we needed a special profile not dissimilar to yours, these were able to help:
http://steelsections.co.uk/
Looks promising - I don't suppose you remember how much the tooling costs were, do you ? That's the bit that's pushing the price up at the moment.http://steelsections.co.uk/
marshalla said:
Looks promising - I don't suppose you remember how much the tooling costs were, do you ? That's the bit that's pushing the price up at the moment.
Sorry, I'm afraid I've no idea. It was for an aviation project and I was only involved on the tech side. I do remember they were very knowledgeable & helpful, the finished product was spot on. Worth giving them a shout I'd say.bomma220 said:
Sorry, I'm afraid I've no idea. It was for an aviation project and I was only involved on the tech side. I do remember they were very knowledgeable & helpful, the finished product was spot on. Worth giving them a shout I'd say.
I've popped an email over to them with a better picture. Thanks for the suggestion.marshalla said:
bomma220 said:
Sorry, I'm afraid I've no idea. It was for an aviation project and I was only involved on the tech side. I do remember they were very knowledgeable & helpful, the finished product was spot on. Worth giving them a shout I'd say.
I've popped an email over to them with a better picture. Thanks for the suggestion.Have you spoken to an ally extruder? Like Shapes - based in Corby?
In the 90's I used to sell extrusion from the mill, and we'd charge <£250 for a die as uncomplicated as that, plus material at whatever cost per metre (related to mass etc). Minimum run was 60 odd metres (but we had a big machine/press - the Corby crew specialised in smaller stuff).
Just a thought. And it would made to exact(ish) dims.
In the 90's I used to sell extrusion from the mill, and we'd charge <£250 for a die as uncomplicated as that, plus material at whatever cost per metre (related to mass etc). Minimum run was 60 odd metres (but we had a big machine/press - the Corby crew specialised in smaller stuff).
Just a thought. And it would made to exact(ish) dims.
The Don of Croy said:
Have you spoken to an ally extruder? Like Shapes - based in Corby?
In the 90's I used to sell extrusion from the mill, and we'd charge <£250 for a die as uncomplicated as that, plus material at whatever cost per metre (related to mass etc). Minimum run was 60 odd metres (but we had a big machine/press - the Corby crew specialised in smaller stuff).
Just a thought. And it would made to exact(ish) dims.
I've been avoiding aluminium as advice received from the designer it that it flexes too much at speed - that's why they switched to steel on the later Esprits. There are also some concerns about how long we can keep it before it becomes unworkable (it needs to be bent and braised/welded to produce the final frames).In the 90's I used to sell extrusion from the mill, and we'd charge <£250 for a die as uncomplicated as that, plus material at whatever cost per metre (related to mass etc). Minimum run was 60 odd metres (but we had a big machine/press - the Corby crew specialised in smaller stuff).
Just a thought. And it would made to exact(ish) dims.
However, given the tooling costs for steel - it may turn out to be the least worst option - unless we can find something similar which is still in production/available for another vehicle.
Edited by marshalla on Friday 11th March 16:49
Have you considered having these fabricated?
The benefit of this is they could be made to the shapes you require and then welded together. I would make this in three parts and tig the two lower edges. The difficult part would be getting the top right, but i think rolling the steel back on itself might be enough.
I'm a coachbuilder and i'm currently setting up on my own but i don't have all the equipment i would need for this at the moment. You could try my current employer Roach manufacturing if you need it quickly.
The benefit of this is they could be made to the shapes you require and then welded together. I would make this in three parts and tig the two lower edges. The difficult part would be getting the top right, but i think rolling the steel back on itself might be enough.
I'm a coachbuilder and i'm currently setting up on my own but i don't have all the equipment i would need for this at the moment. You could try my current employer Roach manufacturing if you need it quickly.
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