RE: Jaguar XKSS continuation - New York 2016
Saturday 26th March 2016
The loss of nine XKSS models destined for sale in America must have seemed like a cruel blow as William Lyons and his colleagues surveyed the smouldering remains of Browns Lane after the fire in 1957. Fate has a habit of turning full circle though and disaster then has offered Jaguar of today licence to commission the lost cars as factory-built continuation models, much as it did with the 'missing' Lightweight E-Types. And sell them to a "select group of established collectors and customers" for "in excess of £1m" apiece. And you thought scoring a 911 R was difficult...
Small production run, big priceThe surviving 16 of a production run of 25 cars instigated by Lyons from leftover D-Types did find homes in the US, one famously bought by Steve McQueen and regularly snapped with the man himself at the wheel. This American connection perhaps explains a New York show announcement for the project. But a direct bloodline to the three-time Le Mans winner D-Type and celebrity endorsement from the king of cool? No wonder the XKSS retains such mystique.
Well if you missed out on an E-Type...First world problems and all that. As a demonstration of the talents of JLR's newly rebranded Classic department and statement of intent by its Special Vehicle Operations the continuation XKSS is the perfect tool for the job. Experience gained from the Lightweight E-Type project will transfer directly and each of the cars will be built in Jaguar's new Warwick-based 'Experimental Shop' to the exact specification of the 1957 originals.
Jaguar XKSS continuation - New York 2016
A chance to make like McQueen as Jaguar commits to build 'lost' XKSS cars destroyed in Browns Lane fire
Small production run, big price
The ethics of building vehicles to previously unassigned serial numbers or recreating, Phoenix like, cars previously destroyed in factory fires or other events is one no doubt to be debated among collectors, historians and auction houses. And watched closely by the likes of Ferrari's Classiche department and equivalent factory restoration operations at Porsche, Mercedes, Lamborghini and others. Who may now be rummaging through the archives for equivalent 'opportunities'. For his part JLR Classic boss Tim Hannig is evidently keen to embrace the chance to add to the world stock of factory-built and, officially, original cars. "The XKSS occupies a unique place in Jaguar's history and is a car coveted by collectors the world over for its exclusivity and unmistakable design," he says, seemingly untroubled by the apparent contradiction of increasing that pool of cars.
Well if you missed out on an E-Type...
Whether they will be equally valued as the originals remains to be seen but, whatever the price, you doubt they'll struggle to find nine people willing to put the money down. If you're one of them just do us a favour and don't try and pretend it automatically makes you as cool as McQueen...
Discussion
So instead of building new more technologically advanced cars maybe all the manufacturers should dig up lost chassis and rebuild them since they all sell at over a million each! What about finding Lo the built but missing chassis numbers around the world and rebuild those?
If I had an original xkss and it got incinerated in a fire is it okay to get that rebuilt and classified as original and retain its corresponding value?
If I had an original xkss and it got incinerated in a fire is it okay to get that rebuilt and classified as original and retain its corresponding value?
I think it's great. All manufacturers could re-open production on any cars from their back catalogue. It would make the prices of these cars more approachable. Evidently not cheap, but cheaper.
People who want to speculate on cars could still do so, after all the dealers and auction houses have sold them the silly idea of one car being more "important" than another. Personally, I think that's crap, it just a machine.
The idea that Jaguar are completing the E-type run or replacing the lost cars is also nonsense. Ten years from now, they'll all be at it. You want a new 250swb, a 964RS, 917, F1, type 37, series XI, cobra, whatever - no problem sir.
The only obstacle is finding a way to get them on the road.
People who want to speculate on cars could still do so, after all the dealers and auction houses have sold them the silly idea of one car being more "important" than another. Personally, I think that's crap, it just a machine.
The idea that Jaguar are completing the E-type run or replacing the lost cars is also nonsense. Ten years from now, they'll all be at it. You want a new 250swb, a 964RS, 917, F1, type 37, series XI, cobra, whatever - no problem sir.
The only obstacle is finding a way to get them on the road.
BrewsterBear said:
As Lord March quite rightly said about the new E-Types they wouldn't be welcome to participate in one of his events. They have no history.
As lovely as they may look they are essentially ringers.
Strangely elitist viewpoint. I mean Lord March is well regarded as a bit of a tosser, but if the owners of the originals were so confident of their inherent provenance, I don't understand their massive insecurity at the prospect of a handful more being built.As lovely as they may look they are essentially ringers.
That there isn't car enthusiasm - it's more the hallmark of someone who is desperately clinging to outdated notions of birth-right superiority without any tangible merit to underpin it.
BrewsterBear said:
As Lord March quite rightly said about the new E-Types they wouldn't be welcome to participate in one of his events. They have no history.
As lovely as they may look they are essentially ringers.
Many of the entries at the recent Goodwood 74mm were recreations. They were indeed announced as such by the event commentary and some were even winners. As lovely as they may look they are essentially ringers.
jamieduff1981 said:
Strangely elitist viewpoint. I mean Lord March is well regarded as a bit of a tosser, but if the owners of the originals were so confident of their inherent provenance, I don't understand their massive insecurity at the prospect of a handful more being built.
That there isn't car enthusiasm - it's more the hallmark of someone who is desperately clinging to outdated notions of birth-right superiority without any tangible merit to underpin it.
I don't think disliking ringers is elitist. Lets imagine my old 911 was a total loss in a fire. I can buy almost every part brand new from Porsche. So I buy an entire new shell, engine, gearbox, etc and build a car as perfect in every way as it left the factory 35 years ago, possibly better. Does that make it OK to slap the same VIN on as the one that burnt? That there isn't car enthusiasm - it's more the hallmark of someone who is desperately clinging to outdated notions of birth-right superiority without any tangible merit to underpin it.
It doesn't matter whether it's Joe Bloggs' under the arches or the company that call themselves Jaguar these days. It's ringing, plain and simple.
BrewsterBear said:
jamieduff1981 said:
Strangely elitist viewpoint. I mean Lord March is well regarded as a bit of a tosser, but if the owners of the originals were so confident of their inherent provenance, I don't understand their massive insecurity at the prospect of a handful more being built.
That there isn't car enthusiasm - it's more the hallmark of someone who is desperately clinging to outdated notions of birth-right superiority without any tangible merit to underpin it.
I don't think disliking ringers is elitist. Lets imagine my old 911 was a total loss in a fire. I can buy almost every part brand new from Porsche. So I buy an entire new shell, engine, gearbox, etc and build a car as perfect in every way as it left the factory 35 years ago, possibly better. Does that make it OK to slap the same VIN on as the one that burnt? That there isn't car enthusiasm - it's more the hallmark of someone who is desperately clinging to outdated notions of birth-right superiority without any tangible merit to underpin it.
.
BrewsterBear said:
Does that make it OK to slap the same VIN on as the one that burnt?
Yes, why wouldn't it? As long as it is documented and you are completely honest about what you have done, then I can't see the problem. It's not like faking a Picasso and selling it as an original. (the artist not the car 
)charlie7777 said:
Many of the entries at the recent Goodwood 74mm were recreations. They were indeed announced as such by the event commentary and some were even winners.
He must have been referring to the Revival then. Either way, I'm not doubting they are lovely cars. I just disagree with digging up VIN plates from the past and slapping them on brand new cars, pretending they are something they are not. I think it's a great thing they're doing, but I can see why the elitist view exists. Part I understand, the other part I think is just pure "I've paid a lot of money for this and I don't want something tipping the apples out of my investment cart" rhetoric.
The view I understand is that they have no history, pure and simple and therefore it is simply a recreation despite being indistinguishable from the originals. That history is what the collectors gush about, just like more modern cars prices go up if a famous film star or singer (ideally deceased) used to own it.
But I think that freedom from history presents an opportunity - no one is going to race an irreplaceable piece of motoring history (except the real hardcore petrolhead billionaires) but something that was made only a couple of years ago and if necessary (with deep enough wallets) could be completely rebuilt but looks, sounds and goes like an original would be something awesome for motorsport.
Yes I know there are a few true originals racing but they're few and far between now as the value of them makes such a prospect very hard to swallow for the owner.
The view I understand is that they have no history, pure and simple and therefore it is simply a recreation despite being indistinguishable from the originals. That history is what the collectors gush about, just like more modern cars prices go up if a famous film star or singer (ideally deceased) used to own it.
But I think that freedom from history presents an opportunity - no one is going to race an irreplaceable piece of motoring history (except the real hardcore petrolhead billionaires) but something that was made only a couple of years ago and if necessary (with deep enough wallets) could be completely rebuilt but looks, sounds and goes like an original would be something awesome for motorsport.
Yes I know there are a few true originals racing but they're few and far between now as the value of them makes such a prospect very hard to swallow for the owner.
renrut said:
But I think that freedom from history presents an opportunity - no one is going to race an irreplaceable piece of motoring history (except the real hardcore petrolhead billionaires) but something that was made only a couple of years ago and if necessary (with deep enough wallets) could be completely rebuilt but looks, sounds and goes like an original would be something awesome for motorsport.
Yes I know there are a few true originals racing but they're few and far between now as the value of them makes such a prospect very hard to swallow for the owner.
Very good point! Lord March's official stance is ridiculous given the amount of Triggers brooms at the events, he's probably just doing it to curry favour with existing owners. Yes I know there are a few true originals racing but they're few and far between now as the value of them makes such a prospect very hard to swallow for the owner.
From the point of view of driving I don't think anyone can argue that these will drive better than a modern equivalent. So the only thing that is important for anyone wanting to drive one is the history and these have none. Anyone who drives a similar car only talk about the privilege of being able to drive a part of history. It's not about collectors worrying about their investments going down either. It's about manufacturers like jaguar mugging people with too much money with a replica. There's a reason why a Chesil speedster doesn't fetch anywhere near the prices a genuine Porsche speedster does and it's not because the Porsche is better built!
The e type reshellings were slightly different I think as there were apparently actual chassis' lying around. They didn't even bother with these
The e type reshellings were slightly different I think as there were apparently actual chassis' lying around. They didn't even bother with these
I don't see why they limit it to 9. If they can do it - why not build 109 ? Wouldn't affect the crazy speculator prices of the 'originals' but would put more into the open market. Seems great for cash flow as well. It would great if all the famous marques offered a 'historic range' amidst their current models. We might as well have more 250 Swb's, Miuras, Ghiblis etc. Being built by the original manufacturer to the original spec sounds good to me.
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