Thursday 7th April 2016

PistonHeads - hypocrisy matters: PH Blog

Is it possible to criticise the Golf R but love the mechanically identical Audi S3?

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I am now totally conflicted. And about to open myself up to accusations of being a complete hypocrite. Seemingly alone I have waged war against the accepted wisdom the Golf R is the best hot hatch - scratch that, best car - ever made. 

Dan is a fan of the S3...

I've driven them on road. I've driven them on track. I've driven a tuned one with 450hp and that almost won me over. But so far I just haven't got the fuss about the R, the fact everyone just keeps banging on about what an amazing car it is strengthening my natural rebellious streak. That a hard-driven R couldn't drop the GTI Clubsport I was driving not so long ago around Portimao just sealed the deal as far as I was concerned - if it's a hot Golf you want then less weight, less power and just two driven wheels are much better. 

And then I accidentally (long story) ended up with an S3. Which is, to all intents and purposes, an identical car to the R in all but badge, interior and exterior panels. Dammit, I really liked it too. Seemingly I'm not the only one. My memories of the R are of stubbornly inert handling, binary power delivery and a sense that everything from noise to control weighting was overly synthesised and artificial. I guess I'll have to have to revisit the Golf to see if this S3 has proved me wrong about some of this. Certainly the power delivery felt determinedly - and entertainingly - boosty. Maybe Audi uses a different calibration but I don't remember any other EA888-engined MQB cars feeling so obviously turbocharged; perhaps the brand's long association with forced induction engines gives the engineers more confidence to celebrate this power delivery rather than hide it. It is an Audi engine at heart, after all. 

And I know everyone bangs on about how cool the Golf's combination of stealth looks and huge pace make it something of a Q-car hero. But it's all relative isn't it. Compared with other Golfs on the road an R still stands out. Yet among the gazillions of S Line vajazzled Audis you see day in, day out the S3 seems all but invisible and stealthy in the best tradition of fast Audis.  

... but still not taken by the Golf R. Huh?

Sure, with an S Tronic dual-clutch this Sportback was hardly demanding to drive. But I guess it shows the importance of calibration and tuning that the control responses all seemed clearer, more natural and nicer to interact with. It'd have to be down to that because the hardware is all the same. 

Maybe for all the protests to the contrary I'm just as big a brand snob as anyone and got suckered by the four-ring badge and - ready the bingo card - that nice interior. Dunno. Whatever the reasons it's a nice, if undemanding, way to make rapid progress. And another car I'd choose ahead of the R!

Dan 

[Sources: Audi.com]

[andrewparker]

Dan, have you driven a Golf R with decent tyres? I found the standard fitment Bridgestone tyres on my GTD woeful and changed them after 1000 miles. The car was improved hugely.

Although you mention the mechanical similarities, I'm sure they're set up quite differently. The steering in the car I drove felt particularly vague and lacked feedback. Regarding the interiors, well neither are the most exciting place to sit are they.

Edited by andrewparker on Thursday 7th April 09:53

[Dale487]

There is nothing wrong with having a preference and you haven't dismissed the Golf R out of hand.

How about this question to test your hypercritic credentials? Golf GTI PP or Skoda Octavia VRS 230?

[Vitorio]

Going purely by looks/image (as i havent driven either), id have the S3 any day. The R is still "a golf", and the high boost AWD system feels rather Audi anyway.

Considering the price (especially in the netherlands), id have neither of them though, i'd make due with a Focus ST or Megane RS

[M3Maverick]

You tried swapping the badges over? No doubt you'd prefer the Golf then

[Dan Trent]

Dale487 said:

There is nothing wrong with having a preference and you haven't dismissed the Golf R out of hand.

How about this question to test your hypercritic credentials? Golf GTI PP or Skoda Octavia VRS 230?

Funny you should ask that; look what arrived on the PH long-term test fleet yesterday...

I'll get back to you!

Dan

[MrBarry123]

It is possible to have criticisms of something whilst also being a fan of it, surely?

[MustardCutter]

"gazillions of S Line vajazzled Audis you see day in, day out"

Brilliant, PMSL.

[W124]

You're absolutely right there, Dan. They do drive differently. The S3 is a bit of a gem in my opinion. In a dark colour with body colour mirrors it really blends in. I daresay the more cocooned feeling of the cabin helps but it's more than that. For what it's worth, the Golf R is a bit dull if you ask me. And, tt mode engaged, is quite uniquely ghastly for reasons that remain obscure. Who can explain these things? Alas, not I. Oddly enough, for me, the stand out ride/handling setup on MQB is the Seat Leon FR. Just the basic petrol with a manual box. Small wheels. I think it's supposed to make around 180bhp but feels stronger to me. It's a lot lighter than the GTI/R/S3 and set up slightly more softly. It just works perfectly on UK roads.

[Tuvra]

In my opinion, the Golf R will go down as a hero...... In 5 years time when the prices have dropped, the warranty's expired and the "shed brigade" and tuners have got their hands on them, people will be spouting st like "Why spend £60k on an M4 (etc) when you can have a slightly modified Golf R for £12k (or what ever)", these are the people who are slating the R now, but will probably own one, sing its praises off the roof top and defend it to the hills in the not so distant future

Pistonheads: Where every car you cannot afford (or buy with two pound coins saved in a giant Bells whiskey bottle) is rubbish, until you can afford it, and then it becomes great.....

[Triumph Man]

I don't like hatchbacks, so the Golf R doesn't do it for me. I do like saloons though, and the S3 is available as a saloon, so I'd have one of those. I wonder if VW would produce a Jetta R....

[Some Gump]

I'd be interested to know from someone with inside knowledge how the 2 set ups differ. Of course, people with chips on shoulders can assume snobbery, but a few setup tweets and some software can make a profound difference.
After all, the hated, ponderous box in the Merc sls and the much loved, fast box in the Ferrari 458 were the exact same unit. Apparently Merc wanted it to last, and Ferrari wanted performance, and if it breaks well you can fix it. Just software.

Equally, you can transform e.g a caterham from an understeery mess into a perfect handling car by adjusting 2 bolts and turning a ring spanner. The difference between safe and exciting can be just a few mm!

[EnglishTony]

Is the Audi significantly more expensive than the Golf? Is the waiting period for 1 less than the other?

[Vitorio]

Tuvra said:

In my opinion, the Golf R will go down as a hero...... In 5 years time when the prices have dropped, the warranty's expired and the "shed brigade" and tuners have got their hands on them, people will be spouting st like "Why spend £60k on an M4 (etc) when you can have a slightly modified Golf R for £12k (or what ever)", these are the people who are slating the R now, but will probably own one, sing its praises off the roof top and defend it to the hills in the not so distant future

Pistonheads: Where every car you cannot afford (or buy with two pound coins saved in a giant Bells whiskey bottle) is rubbish, until you can afford it, and then it becomes great.....

Just like the R32 then?

Triumph Man said:

I don't like hatchbacks, so the Golf R doesn't do it for me. I do like saloons though, and the S3 is available as a saloon, so I'd have one of those. I wonder if VW would produce a Jetta R....

Agreed! i dont mind hatches, but an s3 saloon is much nicer. I dont see VW going a Jetta R though, is there even a GTI version? In fact, i cant even find a Jetta on the dutch VW website...

[Leins]

Triumph Man said:

I don't like hatchbacks, so the Golf R doesn't do it for me. I do like saloons though, and the S3 is available as a saloon, so I'd have one of those. I wonder if VW would produce a Jetta R....

Judging by how many they sold of these in the heyday of the GTi, I'd be surprised if they bothered

[davyvee]

This is the first 'review' on the interworld that has the S3 ahead the Golf.

Aye, maybes it's just you.

[anonymous-user]

Can someone please buy the author a re-entry for GCSE english? Actually that's generous. Key Stage 2 would suffice. This is a terribly, terribly written article. This sort of amateur blogging make my teeth itch.

As regards the car, I'd have either but if pushed would probably angle for the Golf.

[SuperchargedVR6]

Aside from the calibration, does it ride and handle the same as the R? And is the interior quality and overall fit and finish better on the Audi?

Sounds like you've just fallen victim to VAG's badge engineering like 1000s of other people have.

[Triumph Man]

Leins said:

Triumph Man said:

I don't like hatchbacks, so the Golf R doesn't do it for me. I do like saloons though, and the S3 is available as a saloon, so I'd have one of those. I wonder if VW would produce a Jetta R....

Judging by how many they sold of these in the heyday of the GTi, I'd be surprised if they bothered

The Jetta that was based on the Mk5 Golf had the engine from the Golf GTi at the time as an option. Not many about though so your point stands, although it shows they had another crack at it.

[anonymous-user]

A car is more than the sum of it's parts.

How you feel about a car will never be truly objective.

It's why cars are awesome, don't over-analyse it, just enjoy it.

[SuperchargedVR6]

Triumph Man said:

Leins said:

Triumph Man said:

I don't like hatchbacks, so the Golf R doesn't do it for me. I do like saloons though, and the S3 is available as a saloon, so I'd have one of those. I wonder if VW would produce a Jetta R....

Judging by how many they sold of these in the heyday of the GTi, I'd be surprised if they bothered

The Jetta that was based on the Mk5 Golf had the engine from the Golf GTi at the time as an option. Not many about though so your point stands, although it shows they had another crack at it.

The Jetta is/was a lot more popular in the states than the UK. The Bora sold quite well in the UK though.

I remember the old 16V Jetta fondly. Pretty decent car and somehow felt a bit better through the corners than the Golf.