Suggestions for next car
Discussion
Thinking about chopping in my current car for something different, and interested in suggestions.
For the last few years I had a 400+ bhp widetrack Impreza STI for a weekend toy and a 2.0 Fiesta ST.
Wife and I had a baby, thought it's time for something less time consuming (I did a fair bit of the servicing on both myself), more grown up and "sensible" but still fun, so sold both and bought a 2013 E92 M3 with DCT and a bunch of other extras.
6 months on I'm questioning whether I bought the right car.
The M is a far better looking car for sure; the handling and grip in the dry are without a doubt better; wet I'm less inclined to test the limits. The ride is excellent and the cabin much more civilised than the Ford or Subaru's were (but not as nice as the one in the Audi RS5). Relentless pull of the engine at the top end is ludicrous as well.
3 issues I've got with the car:
1. It's not a manual - my fault for not trying the manual (everyone said "go DCT it's amazing"), but I just feel far less connected to the car.
2. The gearing for the DCT seems wrong to me; it's almost like acceleration isn't quite quick enough - possibly because gears aren't long enough(?) - which makes it a pain in the ass when you're overtaking and you need to shift down or up to get the revs up or hit the limiter when it feels like there's more to come. I have far less confidence overtaking than I did in the Subaru as a result, even when I'm using the top of the rev range.
With or without DCT, the M3 would have been crucified by my old Impreza, and wouldn't have clawed back until nearly into three figures, as my mate with a 400bhp Evo aptly demonstrated to my embarrassment when we went to Thruxton.
Some of this I think is simply down to the fact that the car's RWD and is always going to struggle more to find traction than a 4WD equivalent.
3. Small but annoying issue - every time I start the car it's in DriveLogic level 2 and you can't change or even map this it out apparently.
You also can't select the most sport plus power setting by default either, you need to press another button.
Now sure, sometimes I want to select a less aggressive mode - perhaps if it's raining or icy then I may want the car to be miss daisy-like in its characteristics, but for the 99% of other times I drive it I want to start the car and go, and for it to remember what I did last time. It doesn't seem like a difficult ask.
But...far simpler than this - I'm finding it less fun to drive than the Subaru and doesn't make me smile nearly as much.
In the last 3 days I've test driven an M4 DCT (better ride than the E92 but power delivery actually feels like it's being held back, even in MDM and everything in sport plus, like it needs a remap), a Golf R (total disappointment, felt sluggish, and the build quality in the cabin didn't reflect the price tag for me), and the new Civic Type R.
Now, I want to say I hated the Type R because the questionable bodykit on it is more gharish than any Impreza (bar maybe the old S201 edition ), the suspension was too hard and it's annoying that you can't set the torque map and suspension settings on the car separately because R+ is too hard for an average UK road.
But despite all of that, I loved driving it because it felt honest, silly fast and exciting when you used the accelerator in earnest.
I don't feel I can justify spending 2012 M3 money on it though, and at 37 I have to say looks wise it feels a bit too boy racer even by my standards!
Part of me is wondering whether I'm remembering my old car a little too fondly, so rambling aside....what would people recommend for something that has a comfortable ride, decent cabin (doesn't have to be Audi standard but I'd prefer it was better than Ford) that will still keep a grin on your face and launch you into the horizon? (ideally without having cabin drone).
Budget is approx. £30k - after that it's PCP time.
Any sensible suggestions on alternatives? Is a manual E92 M3 worth considering?
For the last few years I had a 400+ bhp widetrack Impreza STI for a weekend toy and a 2.0 Fiesta ST.
Wife and I had a baby, thought it's time for something less time consuming (I did a fair bit of the servicing on both myself), more grown up and "sensible" but still fun, so sold both and bought a 2013 E92 M3 with DCT and a bunch of other extras.
6 months on I'm questioning whether I bought the right car.
The M is a far better looking car for sure; the handling and grip in the dry are without a doubt better; wet I'm less inclined to test the limits. The ride is excellent and the cabin much more civilised than the Ford or Subaru's were (but not as nice as the one in the Audi RS5). Relentless pull of the engine at the top end is ludicrous as well.
3 issues I've got with the car:
1. It's not a manual - my fault for not trying the manual (everyone said "go DCT it's amazing"), but I just feel far less connected to the car.
2. The gearing for the DCT seems wrong to me; it's almost like acceleration isn't quite quick enough - possibly because gears aren't long enough(?) - which makes it a pain in the ass when you're overtaking and you need to shift down or up to get the revs up or hit the limiter when it feels like there's more to come. I have far less confidence overtaking than I did in the Subaru as a result, even when I'm using the top of the rev range.
With or without DCT, the M3 would have been crucified by my old Impreza, and wouldn't have clawed back until nearly into three figures, as my mate with a 400bhp Evo aptly demonstrated to my embarrassment when we went to Thruxton.
Some of this I think is simply down to the fact that the car's RWD and is always going to struggle more to find traction than a 4WD equivalent.
3. Small but annoying issue - every time I start the car it's in DriveLogic level 2 and you can't change or even map this it out apparently.
You also can't select the most sport plus power setting by default either, you need to press another button.
Now sure, sometimes I want to select a less aggressive mode - perhaps if it's raining or icy then I may want the car to be miss daisy-like in its characteristics, but for the 99% of other times I drive it I want to start the car and go, and for it to remember what I did last time. It doesn't seem like a difficult ask.
But...far simpler than this - I'm finding it less fun to drive than the Subaru and doesn't make me smile nearly as much.
In the last 3 days I've test driven an M4 DCT (better ride than the E92 but power delivery actually feels like it's being held back, even in MDM and everything in sport plus, like it needs a remap), a Golf R (total disappointment, felt sluggish, and the build quality in the cabin didn't reflect the price tag for me), and the new Civic Type R.
Now, I want to say I hated the Type R because the questionable bodykit on it is more gharish than any Impreza (bar maybe the old S201 edition ), the suspension was too hard and it's annoying that you can't set the torque map and suspension settings on the car separately because R+ is too hard for an average UK road.
But despite all of that, I loved driving it because it felt honest, silly fast and exciting when you used the accelerator in earnest.
I don't feel I can justify spending 2012 M3 money on it though, and at 37 I have to say looks wise it feels a bit too boy racer even by my standards!
Part of me is wondering whether I'm remembering my old car a little too fondly, so rambling aside....what would people recommend for something that has a comfortable ride, decent cabin (doesn't have to be Audi standard but I'd prefer it was better than Ford) that will still keep a grin on your face and launch you into the horizon? (ideally without having cabin drone).
Budget is approx. £30k - after that it's PCP time.
Any sensible suggestions on alternatives? Is a manual E92 M3 worth considering?
Supercharge your M3 then you'll be smiling as well.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RJzTlLjHU9E
Or maybe buy a last of the line Megane RS275 with the Ohlins Dampers etc, plus you'll have change to add upgrades so you could go & have a chat with the guys at K Tec.
RS275
http://www.autotrader.co.uk/classified/advert/2016...
http://www.autotrader.co.uk/classified/advert/2016...
https://www.google.co.uk/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=...
Or you could just go & buy an R35 GT-R which would seem to tick the boxes in terms of performance being 4WD & having scope to modify, also the running costs would be similar to what you have now.
Cars with a Stage 1 conversion by the likes of Litchfield/Severn Valley are around £8,000 over your 30K budget so they could well be worth a look, also don't be alarmed if like the advert below you see a list of drivetrain upgrades as this is a good thing.
GT-R Stage 1 550bhp
http://www.autotrader.co.uk/classified/advert/2016...
GT-R
http://www.autotrader.co.uk/classified/advert/2016...
http://www.autotrader.co.uk/classified/advert/2016...
The real answer is that you need to work out what you want from the car then that'll tell you what type of car you're looking for.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RJzTlLjHU9E
Or maybe buy a last of the line Megane RS275 with the Ohlins Dampers etc, plus you'll have change to add upgrades so you could go & have a chat with the guys at K Tec.
RS275
http://www.autotrader.co.uk/classified/advert/2016...
http://www.autotrader.co.uk/classified/advert/2016...
https://www.google.co.uk/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=...
Or you could just go & buy an R35 GT-R which would seem to tick the boxes in terms of performance being 4WD & having scope to modify, also the running costs would be similar to what you have now.
Cars with a Stage 1 conversion by the likes of Litchfield/Severn Valley are around £8,000 over your 30K budget so they could well be worth a look, also don't be alarmed if like the advert below you see a list of drivetrain upgrades as this is a good thing.
GT-R Stage 1 550bhp
http://www.autotrader.co.uk/classified/advert/2016...
GT-R
http://www.autotrader.co.uk/classified/advert/2016...
http://www.autotrader.co.uk/classified/advert/2016...
The real answer is that you need to work out what you want from the car then that'll tell you what type of car you're looking for.
Edited by ZX10R NIN on Monday 1st August 20:17
Thanks for the replies and suggestions guys.
I was considering the GTR but as stated may be a bit much to live with everyday which was one of the reasons I got rid of the Impreza.
The supercharging option of my M3 is a no really as:
a) It'll void the manufacturer warranty (and I know the bearings have a tendency to go so I don't want to chance it as I can't afford a new M3 engine!)
b) The mpg will be atrociously bad and
c) Modding an M car costs way more than it should do because of the marque association
The car is only 3 years old with 20000 miles, and the whole point of buying was to get something newer, reliable and that required less maintenance.
The way I'm looking at the moment, I have 3 options:
1) Look at C63 AMG's (previously avoided due to mpg but who knows maybe it'll deliver on the criteria)
2) Trade / sell the M and buy a civic type r. I'm tempted due to how fun it was but I'm also keen to see whether they'll bring out a revised version later this year / next year with the styling a little more toned down.
It's also a whole heap of cash to throw down on a Honda when I know probably half of it will have gone in depreciation within 2 years.
3) Sell the M, buy an Impreza / Evo / Focus RS Mk2, forge it, buy a set of decent shocks etc to make it easier to live with. and keep the remaining £10-15k I'll have leftover.
So will try and test a C63 in the next few weeks and see how I get on. Tempted to try an RS5 again, or maybe even a TTRS as the latter is actually available with a manual.
I was considering the GTR but as stated may be a bit much to live with everyday which was one of the reasons I got rid of the Impreza.
The supercharging option of my M3 is a no really as:
a) It'll void the manufacturer warranty (and I know the bearings have a tendency to go so I don't want to chance it as I can't afford a new M3 engine!)
b) The mpg will be atrociously bad and
c) Modding an M car costs way more than it should do because of the marque association
The car is only 3 years old with 20000 miles, and the whole point of buying was to get something newer, reliable and that required less maintenance.
The way I'm looking at the moment, I have 3 options:
1) Look at C63 AMG's (previously avoided due to mpg but who knows maybe it'll deliver on the criteria)
2) Trade / sell the M and buy a civic type r. I'm tempted due to how fun it was but I'm also keen to see whether they'll bring out a revised version later this year / next year with the styling a little more toned down.
It's also a whole heap of cash to throw down on a Honda when I know probably half of it will have gone in depreciation within 2 years.
3) Sell the M, buy an Impreza / Evo / Focus RS Mk2, forge it, buy a set of decent shocks etc to make it easier to live with. and keep the remaining £10-15k I'll have leftover.
So will try and test a C63 in the next few weeks and see how I get on. Tempted to try an RS5 again, or maybe even a TTRS as the latter is actually available with a manual.
I do like the c63 but it always wants to kill you, the new TT I'm not a massive fan of, I find them a little bit uncomfortable. The c63 other than fuel consumption is comfortable, I've seen 28mpg on a run, but then I've seen 32 out of an m4.
Is the CLA 45 out because of the gearbox ? The new focus rs would hold its money very well
Is the CLA 45 out because of the gearbox ? The new focus rs would hold its money very well
Depends what you want from the car - is it normal daily driver that gets 5+ trackdays a year?
why not an Evo 10? has the comforts of a 'modern car' so can carry the little one round, yet will give you that 4wd performance from the Scooby? - they can be easily tuned to 400bhp and a very capable car - they look fantastic and is a lot more special that a M3 (IMO) it will also give you your fix of Japanese metal - unlike the questionable looks of the new CTR.
why not an Evo 10? has the comforts of a 'modern car' so can carry the little one round, yet will give you that 4wd performance from the Scooby? - they can be easily tuned to 400bhp and a very capable car - they look fantastic and is a lot more special that a M3 (IMO) it will also give you your fix of Japanese metal - unlike the questionable looks of the new CTR.
If you don't like the DCT in the M3, you're not going to enjoy the autobox in the C63... which is worse in my opinion. The noise the AMG exhaust makes is filthy though and will make your M3 exhaust note (if it doesn't have the rear box modified) sound very limp wristed indeed.
TTRS is tiny in the rear which may/may not be an issue for you and the manual gearbox requires a few modifications to tighten up the shifting action/throw because as standard it's not the sweetest box. But they are extremely fast point-to-point cars, take to basic modifications very well indeed and sound lovely with that 5-cyl engine.
Cheers,
Grant
TTRS is tiny in the rear which may/may not be an issue for you and the manual gearbox requires a few modifications to tighten up the shifting action/throw because as standard it's not the sweetest box. But they are extremely fast point-to-point cars, take to basic modifications very well indeed and sound lovely with that 5-cyl engine.
Cheers,
Grant
The C63 is the one I've had one & you can't beat that engine yes the change is slower than a DCT but it's really not an issue plus a software upgrade can get it very close the biggest thing is you have to have a diff either buy one with it or budget to get a Quaife put in it makes a big difference in the way the car drives.
As for the engine 500bhp is a little tickle away, the M3 is sharper & more involving the C63 is more fun, my brother has an E92 M3 & has carried out a decent amount of mods (his engine let go & was replaced under warranty) you can do some mods that won't kill your warranty.
Also why do you think a GT-R would be a more of an issue as a daily the ride really isn't a whole lot firmer than your M3.
The supercharger mod would cost around 10k fully fitted.
As for the engine 500bhp is a little tickle away, the M3 is sharper & more involving the C63 is more fun, my brother has an E92 M3 & has carried out a decent amount of mods (his engine let go & was replaced under warranty) you can do some mods that won't kill your warranty.
Also why do you think a GT-R would be a more of an issue as a daily the ride really isn't a whole lot firmer than your M3.
The supercharger mod would cost around 10k fully fitted.
PlayFair said:
Depends what you want from the car - is it normal daily driver that gets 5+ trackdays a year?
why not an Evo 10? has the comforts of a 'modern car' so can carry the little one round, yet will give you that 4wd performance from the Scooby? - they can be easily tuned to 400bhp and a very capable car - they look fantastic and is a lot more special that a M3 (IMO) it will also give you your fix of Japanese metal - unlike the questionable looks of the new CTR.
Not a fan of how the Evo X looks; the 8 or 9 I love the looks but they're mega money now since Mitsi announced they were stopping making them.why not an Evo 10? has the comforts of a 'modern car' so can carry the little one round, yet will give you that 4wd performance from the Scooby? - they can be easily tuned to 400bhp and a very capable car - they look fantastic and is a lot more special that a M3 (IMO) it will also give you your fix of Japanese metal - unlike the questionable looks of the new CTR.
Ideal scenario is the car will be a daily driver that I could go for a blast in or take it to the track if the mood took me(but the latter is unlikely to be a regular thing).
Did laugh at the C63 comment above re killing me; I'm sure Clarkson said that once too right?
What I do like is the prospect of just having comfort or sport suspension and then go - none of this M button / drive logic / power stuff which a mate says he thinks is far better than the BMW.
Megane is out I wouldn't buy another French car due to past reliability issues, and I just hear too many horror stories.
I know the GTR and the C63 both also have an auto box and is what made me ask myself whether I should look for an E92 manual instead, it may just be a gearing thing that's holding it back but don't think that's it - I drove the M4 DCT last weekend and it really did nothing for me; although I have to say I don't think it felt notably faster than mine, more so just a little - think that's how they're mapped. A mate with an M4 cab who had a CS400 cosworth Impreza before said he feels the same. Both of us bought the cars as something more "grown up" and both of us are missing the fun of the Impreza that the BMW's don't quite seem to deliver which is sad as they are very good cars in the main.
Other thing that worries me about GTR is servicing as they supposedly eat tyres and brakes at an alarming rate from what I read, but it's bloody tempting to buy one before the kid grows up and spends all my money
Well thanks guys - I will definitely give a GTR and a C63 a try; maybe an Evo 9 if I can find one that isn't a private sale....but I know what I'll end up doing if I buy that haha.
Edited by mrnoisy78 on Tuesday 2nd August 00:02
Edited by mrnoisy78 on Tuesday 2nd August 00:06
Edited by mrnoisy78 on Tuesday 2nd August 00:17
Edited by mrnoisy78 on Tuesday 2nd August 00:19
A few mates have a GT-R's one went from an RS5 to a GT-R he reckons it costs him £800 more to run year on year.
Also if you get a GT-R & you need to replace the discs then put a set of Alcon discs on they're much more hard wearing with Performance Friction pads.
Or you could get a 4WD C63
http://www.autotrader.co.uk/classified/advert/2016...
http://www.autotrader.co.uk/classified/advert/2016...
Also if you get a GT-R & you need to replace the discs then put a set of Alcon discs on they're much more hard wearing with Performance Friction pads.
Or you could get a 4WD C63
http://www.autotrader.co.uk/classified/advert/2016...
http://www.autotrader.co.uk/classified/advert/2016...
Dubmaster77 said:
M2?
Would need another £20k mate! Even the salesman admitted they were overpriced and said in his view an M4 or 3 represented better value for money but just don't know.Certainly at this point it's out of financial range and the PCP deal would he daft I'm sure.
I wouldn't mind trying the Focus RS or new Mustang but they're like rocking horse doo doo in the Thames Valley area; looks like a weekend trip with a few mates might be in order.
ZX10R NIN said:
A few mates have a GT-R's one went from an RS5 to a GT-R he reckons it costs him £800 more to run year on year.
Also if you get a GT-R & you need to replace the discs then put a set of Alcon discs on they're much more hard wearing with Performance Friction pads.
Or you could get a 4WD C63
http://www.autotrader.co.uk/classified/advert/2016...
http://www.autotrader.co.uk/classified/advert/2016...
You see I love the RS5 looks and did test drive one which I enjoyed but at the time I just couldn't justify spending an extra £5-6k on a car that was frequently 3-4 years older and had done 10k plus more miles than a M3 equivalent. That and the carbon buildup they suffer from due to the direct injection.Also if you get a GT-R & you need to replace the discs then put a set of Alcon discs on they're much more hard wearing with Performance Friction pads.
Or you could get a 4WD C63
http://www.autotrader.co.uk/classified/advert/2016...
http://www.autotrader.co.uk/classified/advert/2016...
Maybe I need to go back and have another look at one...
An extra £800 a year is not a huge amount but it's still a fair cost given what Audi's cost already!!
On the C63 side I thought the 4MATIC thing was a myth on these cars - isn't that just wrongly advertised?
Edited by mrnoisy78 on Tuesday 2nd August 08:03
No not a myth it was introduced when the facelift model came out, obviously weren't as many sold I think it was around 4-1 in the RWD's favour, but there are some out there.
Or how about a Carrera 4S you get the 4WD & a manual gearbox so more interaction but you do lose in terms of performance.
http://www.autotrader.co.uk/classified/advert/2016...
http://www.autotrader.co.uk/classified/advert/2016...
Or how about a Carrera 4S you get the 4WD & a manual gearbox so more interaction but you do lose in terms of performance.
http://www.autotrader.co.uk/classified/advert/2016...
http://www.autotrader.co.uk/classified/advert/2016...
Edited by ZX10R NIN on Tuesday 2nd August 08:45
In terms of the Golf R, a tuning box transforms the car. Rumoured to be around 370bhp, 0-60 in 3.7 seconds using LC, 0-100 in 9 seconds.
I test drove the new RS and it felt sluggish in comparison. It's also kept a lot of far superior cars in line - 5.0 XKR, Audi RS5, 4.0 M3, Mercedes C63 etc and then embarrassed a few nice cars too, Cayman's, 350z's new TTS etc.
No fan boy or bias - I ordered the RS anyway but the tuning box transformed the R
BMW M140 is available for £29k which seems great value if you can stomach the looks? I'd also try the RS3 & A45.
I test drove the new RS and it felt sluggish in comparison. It's also kept a lot of far superior cars in line - 5.0 XKR, Audi RS5, 4.0 M3, Mercedes C63 etc and then embarrassed a few nice cars too, Cayman's, 350z's new TTS etc.
No fan boy or bias - I ordered the RS anyway but the tuning box transformed the R
BMW M140 is available for £29k which seems great value if you can stomach the looks? I'd also try the RS3 & A45.
It's a tricky one.
I think you have to start by working out what your real priorities are. Reading between the lines in your post I think you're missing some performance, but more missing interaction, and a little bit of traction / not enjoying rear drive characteristics in less than perfect conditions?
The M3 with dct is a pretty big and heavy car with an auto box. It handles well and is a lovely car in its own right, but it's still quite a heavy car with an auto transmission so can't be the last word in driver engagement if you're benchmarking with lighter, manual cars. C63 more so but with an even more lovely engine.
I've recently looked at GTRs, they are astonishing. But they only really come alive when driving very, very fast. I decided they were too easy to go too fast in, and I think they would draw you in - as that's when they come alive. They are genuinely amazing cars, but I decided they weren't what I wanted in a road car.
I ruled out dual clutch / auto in my fun car. I've spent lots of time with them and they certainly add performance. But if you're looking for mechanical interaction, they dilute it (to me - that's not meant to run them down). It's a bit the same with lovely interiors, they tend to come with 'competent' cars more than exciting / raw cars.
I'm struggling for suggestions as I'm not quite sure where you would pitch these contrasting attributes.
I think you have to start by working out what your real priorities are. Reading between the lines in your post I think you're missing some performance, but more missing interaction, and a little bit of traction / not enjoying rear drive characteristics in less than perfect conditions?
The M3 with dct is a pretty big and heavy car with an auto box. It handles well and is a lovely car in its own right, but it's still quite a heavy car with an auto transmission so can't be the last word in driver engagement if you're benchmarking with lighter, manual cars. C63 more so but with an even more lovely engine.
I've recently looked at GTRs, they are astonishing. But they only really come alive when driving very, very fast. I decided they were too easy to go too fast in, and I think they would draw you in - as that's when they come alive. They are genuinely amazing cars, but I decided they weren't what I wanted in a road car.
I ruled out dual clutch / auto in my fun car. I've spent lots of time with them and they certainly add performance. But if you're looking for mechanical interaction, they dilute it (to me - that's not meant to run them down). It's a bit the same with lovely interiors, they tend to come with 'competent' cars more than exciting / raw cars.
I'm struggling for suggestions as I'm not quite sure where you would pitch these contrasting attributes.
As ZX10 suggested earlier in the thread, something like the Megane RS would be a good shout.
20k gets you into a practically new one. Get a high specced one, you'll be laughing. A great drivers car, and comfy enough to daily. I haven't got the Ohlins fitted to mine, but it's still more than comfortable enough to daily. The Ohlins you can turn right down for "B Road driving" and are a lot more comfortable.
Plus, it's a genuinely fun, engaging car, unlike most things on sale today.
If you want more power, it's as simple as throwing it at RSTuning in Leeds and they'll extra an extra 50ish HP from it, and add in Launch Control if it's your thing.
20k gets you into a practically new one. Get a high specced one, you'll be laughing. A great drivers car, and comfy enough to daily. I haven't got the Ohlins fitted to mine, but it's still more than comfortable enough to daily. The Ohlins you can turn right down for "B Road driving" and are a lot more comfortable.
Plus, it's a genuinely fun, engaging car, unlike most things on sale today.
If you want more power, it's as simple as throwing it at RSTuning in Leeds and they'll extra an extra 50ish HP from it, and add in Launch Control if it's your thing.
It does sound to me like you want an RS5 but feel it's a bit much for what it is. Try a GTR, C63 and anything else in that area.
Personally I'd be thinking hard about trying the CTR again after you'd tried those - it seemed to tick the enjoyment box you're missing and other than the lairy looks is as practical (mpg excepted) as any other civic. Running costs should be a level below most of the other cars too as Honda was offering a 3yr fixed servicing deal only a hundred or so above the price of a standard Honda and it's not going to have the M3/AMG/RS badge tax on anything associated with it.
Personally I'd be thinking hard about trying the CTR again after you'd tried those - it seemed to tick the enjoyment box you're missing and other than the lairy looks is as practical (mpg excepted) as any other civic. Running costs should be a level below most of the other cars too as Honda was offering a 3yr fixed servicing deal only a hundred or so above the price of a standard Honda and it's not going to have the M3/AMG/RS badge tax on anything associated with it.
Guys thanks for all of your comments and suggestions.
It's nice to hear some understanding as I've been flamed a bit by the BMW brigade for daring to criticise the car, even though it definitely is still very good in terms of performance and handling it's just missing the mark in terms of engagement and low down straight line speed for me (top end it's more than I'll be able to use 99% of the time).
ZX10R NIN - not a Porsche fan, ideally I'd like at least 4 usable adult seats (yeah I know that would rule out the GTR) I didn't know the C63 was available in 4MATIC so may have a look thank you.
Tuvra, I've heard the same re the Golf R and tuning box but the interior to me felt very cheap and badly put together, don't think I could see myself parting with the money they're asking for what felt like a huge step down for not much less cash than the M.
Ideally if I'm spending that much money I'd prefer not to mod it, at least not straight away anyway, especially if the car comes with warranty.
I've been that road with my old Subaru and you never see the money back when you come to sell unless it's a very sought after example.
Oh and yeah I need back seats; every now and then I'm expected to carry the baby
Hungrymc - you completely get where I'm coming from, definitely missing the performance and interaction - Civic seemed to offer both, with some torque steer thrown in to add to the fun! I completely agree that the auto boxes, no matter how good they are, just aren't as involving as a manual - I think they're superb in a straight line, but in corners they just annoy me. This is why I wonder whether the Merc would be the same for me, but I'll go and have a look at one - I have a good mate who's a Merc mechanic too so that would keep servicing costs down.
The GTR does look amazing - the interior looks a bit plasticky but I suspect I'd forgive it - but the other thing is I've seen them in the flesh and they're huge cars - I think I'd find myself worrying if having to park it anywhere and leave it, especially when visiting a few mates who live in - let's just say - less friendly areas.
You're also right that the cabin is less important in terms of being plush - it's more the ride that needs to be bearable.
Renrut you're right too - I did want an RS5 but the mega money they wanted plus the tendency to get carbon build-up on a car that can fetch £35k+ for a 2011 plate put me off. It's been so long since I tested one I can't remember if it'll be any quicker than the M feels.
The CTR is tempting but right now I do feel it's too much money and I suspect the inability to separate the settings for the torque map and the suspension in R+ would eventually irritate me; I'm also tempted to wait to see if they do a facelift that addresses some of the more lairy styling.
Megane - I know they get rave reviews, but the badge snob in me is fighting it - maybe I need to go look at one.
I'll keep going and having a look - ultimately I don't want to part with cash, rush and change to something I'll get bored of quickly as I don't have an endless budget. Thanks again for the suggestions and input, all very much appreciated, and good to hear from people who have tested and / or owned these cars.
It's nice to hear some understanding as I've been flamed a bit by the BMW brigade for daring to criticise the car, even though it definitely is still very good in terms of performance and handling it's just missing the mark in terms of engagement and low down straight line speed for me (top end it's more than I'll be able to use 99% of the time).
ZX10R NIN - not a Porsche fan, ideally I'd like at least 4 usable adult seats (yeah I know that would rule out the GTR
) I didn't know the C63 was available in 4MATIC so may have a look thank you.Tuvra, I've heard the same re the Golf R and tuning box but the interior to me felt very cheap and badly put together, don't think I could see myself parting with the money they're asking for what felt like a huge step down for not much less cash than the M.
Ideally if I'm spending that much money I'd prefer not to mod it, at least not straight away anyway, especially if the car comes with warranty.
I've been that road with my old Subaru and you never see the money back when you come to sell unless it's a very sought after example.
Oh and yeah I need back seats; every now and then I'm expected to carry the baby
Hungrymc - you completely get where I'm coming from, definitely missing the performance and interaction - Civic seemed to offer both, with some torque steer thrown in to add to the fun! I completely agree that the auto boxes, no matter how good they are, just aren't as involving as a manual - I think they're superb in a straight line, but in corners they just annoy me. This is why I wonder whether the Merc would be the same for me, but I'll go and have a look at one - I have a good mate who's a Merc mechanic too so that would keep servicing costs down.
The GTR does look amazing - the interior looks a bit plasticky but I suspect I'd forgive it - but the other thing is I've seen them in the flesh and they're huge cars - I think I'd find myself worrying if having to park it anywhere and leave it, especially when visiting a few mates who live in - let's just say - less friendly areas
.You're also right that the cabin is less important in terms of being plush - it's more the ride that needs to be bearable.
Renrut you're right too - I did want an RS5 but the mega money they wanted plus the tendency to get carbon build-up on a car that can fetch £35k+ for a 2011 plate put me off. It's been so long since I tested one I can't remember if it'll be any quicker than the M feels.
The CTR is tempting but right now I do feel it's too much money and I suspect the inability to separate the settings for the torque map and the suspension in R+ would eventually irritate me; I'm also tempted to wait to see if they do a facelift that addresses some of the more lairy styling.
Megane - I know they get rave reviews, but the badge snob in me is fighting it - maybe I need to go look at one.
I'll keep going and having a look - ultimately I don't want to part with cash, rush and change to something I'll get bored of quickly as I don't have an endless budget. Thanks again for the suggestions and input, all very much appreciated, and good to hear from people who have tested and / or owned these cars.
Edited by mrnoisy78 on Tuesday 2nd August 10:29
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