RE: 3-door hot hatches are dead: Tell Me I'm Wrong

RE: 3-door hot hatches are dead: Tell Me I'm Wrong

Thursday 15th September 2016

3-door hot hatches are dead: Tell Me I'm Wrong

Get over it people, hot hatches of the future will have rear doors too



Human nature and all that but there are a whole load of things that seem to excite people I just don't get. TV shows about baking cakes, hair-gelled millionaires having a kickabout and, in a PH-relevant context, getting worked up about new hot hatches launching without a three-door option.

Out with the old...
Out with the old...
Given the threats on all sides to things we hold dear in our fast cars - be that steering feel, throttle response, naturally-aspirated engines, manual gearboxes, proper exhaust noise - this seems a curious thing to get worked up about. But people do. Very much.

Criticisms of the current Clio 200 when it launched were wide-ranging and, in the case of the dual-clutch only transmission and removal of dynamically important tech like the PerfoHub front suspension struts, entirely valid. Yet for many commentators the ultimate betrayal for the Clio 4 was its switch from a three- to a five-door platform, the very clear point being that no hot hatch worthy of the name could possibly have another set of doors. We've seen the same outpourings after photos of the next-gen Megane Renault Sport emerged, this car too apparently following the Clio's lead and switching from the coupe-like profile of the outgoing car and to a more generic five-door shape. See also the Civic Type R and Focus RS; both cars with passionate fanbases, a significant proportion of which cite extra doors as symbolic of plots being lost. Don't forget as well the reaction to spy shots of the next-gen Fiesta ST showing a five-door format.  

I admire the purist streak. God knows I've wittered on about such things here myself, be it PDK-only GT3s, horrible variable-ratio steering on supercars or the over-complication of gimmicky driver modes. I love a hot hatch too, my personal rite of passage in this being ownership of a rather lovely Clio 172 Cup a few years back. Yes, a three-door hot hatch. But I just can't find myself getting worked up about the world going five-door.

... and in with the new. But is it a good thing?
... and in with the new. But is it a good thing?
I think it may be my age. There's a clear divide in the PH office on this, Matt, Ben and the other youngsters clearly subscribing to the view a proper hot hatch is one with its flanks unadorned by superfluous doors. I get it too. The styling tends to be more resolved, they're lighter (a five-door Golf GTI is 30kg more than a three-door) and - I'm assuming here - a stiffer platform on which to build a performance shopping trolley. I also get the fact it broadcasts a clear message that you care more about your driving than you do about practicality, flicking the vees to the rest of the world and its fixation on mpg, ISOFIX, boot space and general school-run friendliness.

Trouble is folk like James and I are now of an age and 'life stage' where such things DO matter and our age group is the one the manufacturers are more eager to please. Ergo when it comes to the product planning and budgeting stage of developing a new hatchback from which our hot versions are developed, it's little wonder a three-door version is considered expendable. From tooling to testing, a three-door shell is an expensive indulgence to cater for a proportionally tiny selection of the potential buyers. No wonder few are bothering.

Some still are though, VW among them. The MQB platform that underpins a huge range of vehicles across all its brands includes a three-door option for its C-segment hatchbacks and provides for this traditional layout on the Golf GTI (and R), SEAT Leon Cupra and Audi S3. In the junior hot hatch realm the Fiesta ST is three-door only and the option remains for the Polo GTI, SEAT Ibiza Cupra, Audi S1, Suzuki Swift Sport, Mini, Fiat 500 and others.

VW still catering to the purists - who'd have thought?
VW still catering to the purists - who'd have thought?
The MQB platform is still relatively fresh in terms of its product cycle too, so it's safe to assume VW and its brands will be able to offer three-door cars for some time yet. If there's demand. Is there though? I asked VW and SEAT for the respective splits on hot versions of the Golf and Leon. For the Golf GTI a third of buyers still go three-door but on the R - where there's an estate option too - it's 50 per cent five-door and an even split of the remainder between three-door and estate. It's a similar story for the Leon too, 55 per cent going five-door, 27 per cent SC three-door and the remainder going for the ST estate I enjoyed so much recently. But then I would, because I'm a 40-something with kids.

It's interesting that neither brand restricts its extreme versions - respectively GTI Clubsport Edition 40 and Sub8 Performance Pack Leon Cupra - to three-door versions only, one way you might think they might cater to the purists and set them apart from the all-rounders. Selfishly I'm glad about that!

What does this prove? If not an overwhelming case for Renault and others canning a three-door option then it's at least an indication of the market's direction of travel. And, if you were projecting ahead for an all-new generation of hot hatches and identifying significant cost savings, one area you might look at. That WRC cars are based on five-door shells only underlines that shift too.

Hang on, looks like another  three-door ST...
Hang on, looks like another three-door ST...
I'm fine with this, I have to say. And if it frees up some cash to keep a manual in the new Megane range then doubly so. Put simply, if the three-door hot hatch is something we consign to history then I won't be wearing a black armband.

Besides, there is hope. In one of those curious flukes of timing as I sat down to write this missive an email landed from our spy photo agency. The subject? A new batch of Fiesta ST testing photos showing, beyond doubt, Ford is working on a three-door variant too. Tell me I'm wrong? Looks like Ford might have spared you the job! 

 

Author
Discussion

framerateuk

Original Poster:

2,733 posts

184 months

Wednesday 14th September 2016
quotequote all
No problem with 5 doors here.

Bought a 5 door Clio Trophy after having a Megane 250 for years. The extra practicality is useful (and no, I don't have kids) and aside from the car maybe not look as sleep from the side profile, I can't see any downsides. It's a hot hatch afterall, it's meant to be fast and practical. If I only wanted two doors I'd buy a coupe.

AMGJocky

1,407 posts

116 months

Wednesday 14th September 2016
quotequote all
I too am not bothered. It's the fact there are less and less new manuals that will always bother me.

anonymous-user

54 months

Wednesday 14th September 2016
quotequote all
This talk of "purists" in the context of hot hatches seems to be to be a misnomer. By their very principle they are a compromise: enjoyable to drive but without the sacrifices to practicality inherent in an actual sports car or sports coupe.

If someone really is dead serious about the driving experience over everything else, and damn the consequences, then they aren't spending their money on a fundamentally compromised platform like a FWD hatchback designed to sell at a profit for £12k. In that context 5 doors makes a lot of sense.

fezst

234 posts

124 months

Wednesday 14th September 2016
quotequote all
Don't really get the point of this article... 3 door hot hatches will continue to live on for the foreseeable future because there is a market for them. It's really that simple.

addz86

1,439 posts

186 months

Wednesday 14th September 2016
quotequote all
It'd put me right off, as soon as I hear 5 door only I dismiss the car. I'm sure it's handy when you've got kids and what have you but a hot hatch for me has to be a 3 door.

I haven't got a problem when a 3/5 door option is offered but if I wanted practicality i'd simply buy a bigger car.

PoopahScoopah

249 posts

125 months

Wednesday 14th September 2016
quotequote all
For me it's all about aesthetics. It's human nature to judge upon looks, and whilst that alone may rank far below many other traits to the common petrol head, I believe that it is still of some importance to many. People for whom styling have absolutely no baring on their buying decision must be a minority, I'm sure of it. Be honest, with all other things being equal, why would you choose the uglier car (and yes, "uglier" is subjective of course).

The simple solution is give the consumer the choice of 3 or 5 door, same as they have been for decades. Have manufacturers really hit on such hard times that they've had to reel back on the design and manufacturing costs of keeping this option?

Mafffew

2,149 posts

111 months

Wednesday 14th September 2016
quotequote all
I think the problem with Renault and the 5 door layout, is that it just looks a bit dull. Hot hatches (IMO) are about flair and having that little bit of a boy racer image. It's why I love the new Type-R even with 5 doors, it has all of that. The RS Clio, new RS Megane, Golf GTI/R (minus the Clubsport) all look like the same model your Grandma would drive.




rodericb

6,742 posts

126 months

Wednesday 14th September 2016
quotequote all
It's merely the evolution of the same thinking that prefers a three door hatch to a two door coupe. Give it twenty more years and punters will be agonizing over which hot SUV'ette to get. And they'll be the front wheel drive only - the all wheel drive models will have stopped being produced years earlier....

Vitorio

4,296 posts

143 months

Wednesday 14th September 2016
quotequote all
Mafffew said:
The RS Clio, new RS Megane, Golf GTI/R (minus the Clubsport) all look like the same model your Grandma would drive.
Your nan drives a bright yellow clio with RS specific 17" rims, agressive bumper design and a difuser?

Its not like the hot hatches with 3 door versions are the only 3 door versionf of the same car, for every Fiesta ST there are tens if not hundreds of 3-doors with a piddly sub 100hp lump and hubcaps on steelies.

irocfan

40,439 posts

190 months

Wednesday 14th September 2016
quotequote all
sorry no interest in 5 doors, IMO 3 doors look waaay better (and let's be honest here looks are important!). That being said it's an unfair statement in as much as I'm not really a HH fan to begin with - it's always been coupes and sports cars for me (IIRC the only 4 door I've owned was an MG ZT 190+ which was pleasant enough)

nickfrog

21,149 posts

217 months

Wednesday 14th September 2016
quotequote all
It's entirely possible not to have a problem with 5-door but to prefer a 3-door.
A bit like preferring NA but not having a problem with a turbo.

macky17

2,212 posts

189 months

Wednesday 14th September 2016
quotequote all
fezst said:
Don't really get the point of this article... 3 door hot hatches will continue to live on for the foreseeable future because there is a market for them. It's really that simple.
Is it that simple? I'm sure Ford knew there was a market for 3 door hatches when they produced the Focus (ST and RS too) in 5 door only. Someone must have decided the cost saving of a single layout outweighed any theoretical lost sales. Maybe other manufacturers will follow their lead.

I've never got the aesthetic of 3 v 5 door at all. I don't think 3 doors looks any better or any worse so why compromise on practicality if there's no other reason? Manufacturers such as Honda and Seat have become quite clever at hiding the rear door shut lines and handle as well.

LotusOmega375D

7,618 posts

153 months

Wednesday 14th September 2016
quotequote all
Funny how many forget that the most iconic hot hatch of them all is 5 door: Lancia Integrale.

rampageturke

2,622 posts

162 months

Wednesday 14th September 2016
quotequote all
fezst said:
Don't really get the point of this article... 3 door hot hatches will continue to live on for the foreseeable future because there is a market for them. It's really that simple.
i guess thats why a lot of them are 5 door only now huh

makes.....sense???

LotusOmega375D said:
Funny how many forget that the most iconic hot hatch of them all is 5 door: Lancia Integrale.
very very debatable, but thats for another topic

lord trumpton

7,396 posts

126 months

Wednesday 14th September 2016
quotequote all
I think the mk5 golf was the turning point for me - were hatches had grown so much that the 5 doors looked far more suited to the car and better proportioned.

The size of hatches these days - to not have a rear door and have a long slab of panel instead jut looks crap to me.

I think the 3 door hatch looks best on the supermini cars, as these are now the size of a conventional hatch from a decade ago

TNH

559 posts

147 months

Wednesday 14th September 2016
quotequote all
5 doors look naff in comparison to 3 door versions.

I also hate driving 5 door versions of small cars as when I look to the right I get a face full of the pillar instead of glass which you get from the doors being bigger on 3 doors.

g7jhp

6,964 posts

238 months

Wednesday 14th September 2016
quotequote all
Three doors work better on the smaller super-mini sized hatches (205, Clio, Mini) and 5 doors work on the standard sized hot-hatches (Golf, A3, Focus. It's more down to the amount of room on the boudyshell.


3 door works


5 door works

Gandahar

9,600 posts

128 months

Wednesday 14th September 2016
quotequote all
Dan, what will happen is that 5 door hot hatches become the norm.

Then those crafty Germans will find a niche that is a 3 door hatch coupe !! And sell bucketloads of them. It will be priced higher even though costing less to make due to lack of doors. Then the convertible version comes along .....

thumbup

PS Odd and even numbers will by that time have all been used up for marking out the various versions, so Germany will start selling cars with a complex number to denote the model



Edited by Gandahar on Wednesday 14th September 12:47

TheOversteerLever

1,340 posts

213 months

Wednesday 14th September 2016
quotequote all
g7jhp said:
Three doors work better on the smaller super-mini sized hatches (205, Clio, Mini) and 5 doors work on the standard sized hot-hatches (Golf, A3, Focus. It's more down to the amount of room on the boudyshell.


3 door works


5 door works
I agree. How 'right' does that 205 look?! cool

culpz

4,882 posts

112 months

Wednesday 14th September 2016
quotequote all
You're wrong... (In the nicest way possible)

I don't think that 3 door cars will die or are dying out. Many of the 3 door variant of hatchbacks, hot or not, are being called coupes. A prime example being the new Leon range having the hatchback and SC (sport coupe) models.

Coupes on the other hand are in fact dying out. The main reason being is that they're not actually coupes anymore at all, they're just the 3 door version of the normal 5 door hatchback. All a marketing exercise really to sell more.