RE: Golf GTI Clubsport S vs. Mini JCW Challenge

RE: Golf GTI Clubsport S vs. Mini JCW Challenge

Saturday 24th September 2016

Golf GTI Clubsport S vs. Mini JCW Challenge

Two limited edition track hatches with the focus on fun - which is best?



Let's clear up two points before we begin, one more significant than the other: no, you can't buy a GolfGTI Clubsport S anymore. Hopefully the work invested in it can be seen in future models but, for the moment, a Golf capable of 7:49 at the Nurburgring cannot be bought from your Volkswagen dealer.

Second point? The Mini JCW Challenge you see here is £32,000, only a couple of thousand less than the Golf and, regardless of your loyalties, quite a lot of money. Still, when people are spending over £30K on JCW cabrios, that doesn't seem so extortionate.

With those out of the way, we can concentrate on why the Mini and the Golf were brought together. Namely, because they both look tremendously good fun. Oh sure, on the dismal day that they were tested a Focus RS will have been miles faster - beat you to that one - but these two promise real entertainment, while also being about as fast as FWD currently gets. The Challenge has to show this Mini can be a proper laugh (because the JCW, frankly, isn't), while the Clubsport S needs to prove it's worth the sacrifices imposed over the standard GTI. Because, otherwise, what's the point?



Golf GTI Clubsport S
Be honest: when was the last time you were genuinely excited about driving a Golf GTI? Unless you own a Mk1 or Mk2 it was probably quite a long time ago, given the last true surprise came with the Mk5. But there's a real sense of anticipation surrounding the Clubsport S, something that not even the appalling weather can diminish at Donington.

You want presence in the paddock? Nailed it
You want presence in the paddock? Nailed it
It looks superb, inside and out. Of course it's still a Golf, and therefore reasonably restrained, but then you spot little details like the larger exhausts, the Michelins' distinctive font and the decals. The fantastic seats and lovely Alcantara wheel are immediate highlights inside - the sense of occasion is much greater than the Mini, so it's the one to face the deluge in first.

Well there's that, plus the suspicion that the Golf might be a little friendlier than the Mini in these conditions. Send your MTFU comments to the usual address. But it proves a correct guess, the Golf an ideal place to begin what would be a pretty frustrating day.

Don't mistake the Clubsport S for being dull however. You were thinking that, weren't you? Where the Mini would prove rather spiky later on, the Golf is immediately accommodating of however you want to drive.

Moreover, it feels noticeably different (and better) than a regular GTI from the get-go. The steering is a real highlight: the tweaks made to the front axle have not only made it keener to turn, but the weighting is spot on as well. While tangible feel isn't really there, you as the driver are never in any doubt about what the front tyres are up to. The wheel is great too: round, thin and dressed with just the right amount of Alcantara, it makes the Mini's even more disappointing.

VAQ 'diff' and Cup 2s still mega effective here
VAQ 'diff' and Cup 2s still mega effective here
Throughout the Golf's dynamic make up, there's the impression of it being overhauled by people who care about the subjective elements of driving and not just the numbers. The brakes don't feel as snatchy as fast VWs can, the engine feels more boosty yet also keener to rev than standard and the whole car is more involving than what can, on occasion, be a rather aloof standard GTI.

Much has been made in the development of the Clubsport S about the desire to reduce understeer in the Golf chassis. Early on for us the concern is more about keeping one of very few currently in the UK out of the gravel, but eventually signs of that work show through. The front end's resistance to pushing on is remarkable, but more than any other Golf it's this car's balance that shines through. This isn't a hot hatch from the Megane school that could see you backwards with a mistimed brake, instead one that feels very neutral and willing to be tweaked at both ends on throttle and brake. Turning in on the brakes keeps it locked on line, a lift will tighten any push and the VAQ will drag it out at times you simply wouldn't expect.

We never venture further than ESC Sport in our time at Donington, sadly, but this is a Golf that's noticeably more entertaining than any previous GTI. It's a Golf that I left wanting to drive more and more, which is a rare occurrence. Whether it's really that much better than a Clubsport Edition 40 is of course the question that remains to be answered. Today though we have to find out whether it's better than that Mini that keeps parping its way along the main straight. Time to swap...

Onboard lap here.



Mini JCW Challenge
As mentioned, the Mini JCW Challenge doesn't grab the attention quite like the Golf, but to dismiss it as simply a marketing exercise would be daft. And wrong. It has a stance never before seen on this generation of Mini, low and aggressive and with noticeable camber too. The Cup 2 tyres feature again, the Team Dynamics wheels look great and the brakes behind the front ones only just seem to fit. Encouraging signs...

See the video for all the noise!
See the video for all the noise!
Like all Minis, you sit promisingly low in the Challenge. However, the interior can't match the Golf's for both sense of occasion and functionality. The seats aren't as supportive, the contact points aren't as nice and the control weights don't have the same cohesion either, sadly: the steering is artificial, the brakes on our car felt very tired and the accelerator seems to offer 100 per cent throttle after about 20 per cent travel.

The Mini has a very distinct redeeming feature though - it's an absolute riot to drive. We didn't tinker with any of the Nitron damper settings during our day with it, so there could well be an even better balance in there. But, once over some initial sketchiness, the Mini reveals a fantastically agile and - being brutally honest - slightly silly side that we feared had been lost in this generation.

Like the Golf, the Mini was kept in its half-way house traction control setting for this test. It's permissive enough though that there seemed little need beyond showing off to go any further. It was an absolute hoot, the car pivoting around your hips at any opportunity: close the throttle, trail the brakes, turn in a little too hard and the Mini is willing to play. It's not to wild angles (unless you really want it to be), more a welcome return to the adjustability and fun the 21st century Minis have become known for.

Finally, a Mk3 Mini you won't mind the public seeing
Finally, a Mk3 Mini you won't mind the public seeing
On top of this, there's a level of precision to the Challenge missing from the standard JCW thanks to the Quaife differential and those Michelin tyres. The steering is still an issue, but this car now dives for an apex and hauls itself out where the JCW would be vague, scrappy and unsatisfying. It wants to change direction more eagerly than the Golf, darting into corners and scurrying out of them; on a new circuit in the rain it can be quite unsettling, but embrace the attitude and it's fantastic.

Despite the glorious racket from the new exhaust, the Mini's powertrain has to come second to the Clubsport S however. In performance terms there's very little in it, so it comes down to the face the Mini is less keen to rev and its ratios feel a little long. Both manuals are pretty good, certainly on a par with a Focus RS, while never involving the driver quite like a Civic Type R.

There's little doubt the Challenge is a great little car, easily the best Mk3 Mini and a welcome return for a JCW that can put a ruddy great grin on your face. Those few people who get one in the UK - less in fact than the Golf, despite the VW being sold out - are in for a real treat. But is it a better hot hatch than the Clubsport S?

Onboard lap here.



Verdict
Now this is tricky. Not only will the Clubsport S be out of the reckoning for many with just two seats, it's also impossible to buy a new one right now. All 150 cars for the UK are sold. However, for the purposes of this test, the two cars will be compared as equals. And we will all just have to hope that VW builds some more.

Both are easily the best of their respective ranges
Both are easily the best of their respective ranges
Because the Clubsport S is, quite frankly, excellent. Sure, there's a lingering doubt that the weight saving could have gone further still, but then this car cost those 150 UK buyers less than a Golf R Estate. It could have been more hardcore, but then it would have cost more money.

Whether the actual Nurburgring time matters to you isn't really relevant; what matters is that that development arena has created a much more involving, entertaining and interesting Golf GTI. Oh yes, and it's faster too. This all while still being just like a Golf. A two-seat Golf, granted, but one that's refined, stylish and, you've guessed it, very well built. More hardcore and it would likely lose those attributes; less focused and it would feel too much like a GTI. As is, it strikes a truly fantastic compromise. That you can't buy.

So the Mini must win, right? Certainly it runs the Golf extremely close on fun stakes, its willingness to play the hooligan a very endearing trait. It has some genuine motorsport kudos with those parts as well, and punches far harder than the bald stats would suggest.

And yet despite the motorsport influence it's the Golf that feels the more special car. It's more than just the looks and the details, but crucial touches like the control weights and the responses that swing the verdict in the Golf's favour (no pun intended). Certainly the Mini is a marked improvement from the JCW, one that can hopefully be made more widely available in the future, but the Clubsport S has to be our limited-run hot hatch of choice for now. There are 150 very lucky people out there!


VOLKSWAGEN GOLF GTI CLUBSPORT S
Engine:
 1,984cc 4-cyl turbocharged
Transmission: 6-speed manual, front-wheel drive
Power (hp): 310@5,800rpm
Torque (lb ft): 280@1,850-5,700rpm
0-62mph: 5.8sec
Top speed: 164mph
Weight: 1,360kg (EU, including 75kg driver)
MPG: 38.2 (provisional NEDC combined figures)
CO2: 172g/km (provisional figures)
Price: £33,995 (150 cars, now sold out)

MINI JCW CHALLENGE
Engine
: 1,998cc, 4-cyl turbocharged
Transmission: 6-speed manual, front-wheel drive
Power (hp): 231@5,200rpm
Torque (lb ft): 236@1,250-4,800rpm
0-62mph: 6.3sec
Top speed: 153mph
Weight: 1,215kg
MPG: 42.2 (NEDC combined)
CO2: 155g/km
Price: £32,000

 

 

 

 

 

Author
Discussion

sidesauce

Original Poster:

2,480 posts

219 months

Tuesday 20th September 2016
quotequote all
Although I'm not in the market for either car, I can appreciate them both. I'd probably take the Golf though - I think VW has played a blinder with it.

WCZ

10,537 posts

195 months

Tuesday 20th September 2016
quotequote all
golf every time, 310bhp

SuperchargedVR6

3,138 posts

221 months

Tuesday 20th September 2016
quotequote all
Are you sure the 3 and the 2 haven't been reversed on the Mini's price?

If not, the Golf looks like a bargain in comparison.

Dandanfings

62 posts

97 months

Tuesday 20th September 2016
quotequote all
I am loving all these features for the Clubsport, cannot wait for mine to arrive!

AndrewDTUK

2 posts

97 months

Tuesday 20th September 2016
quotequote all
our ClubSport S should be here mid november smile

peter450

1,650 posts

234 months

Tuesday 20th September 2016
quotequote all
Mini looks expensive compared to the Golf. Size wise its more in the polo,fiesta sized car bracket

volkswizardph

39 posts

138 months

Tuesday 20th September 2016
quotequote all
Like most other I bet, mines being built w/c 10th October so November arrival too.
Are we going to arrange a track day?

AJB88

12,454 posts

172 months

Tuesday 20th September 2016
quotequote all
Wish SEAT would build a Cupra version of the Clubsport S.

I end up building one everytime (Currently running Stage2) but the market value of them drops because its essentially just a stock Cupra. Where as the Clubsport S will hold a good value vs GTI Clubsport.

SidewaysSi

10,742 posts

235 months

Tuesday 20th September 2016
quotequote all
A 2 seater Golf?!!! What's the point?

BricktopST205

939 posts

135 months

Wednesday 21st September 2016
quotequote all
Thing with these is if you have the money to burn on either of these cars you have the money to burn on a proper track focused car. Both are extremely heavy for a stripped out track car. These are simply a collectors item and nothing else.

Dandanfings

62 posts

97 months

Wednesday 21st September 2016
quotequote all
AJB88 said:
Wish SEAT would build a Cupra version of the Clubsport S.

I end up building one everytime (Currently running Stage2) but the market value of them drops because its essentially just a stock Cupra. Where as the Clubsport S will hold a good value vs GTI Clubsport.
To be fair the Cupra is Seats Clubsport, same engine and very similar setup.
A hotter version was released called the sub 8 if i remember correctly?

MaxA

238 posts

145 months

Wednesday 21st September 2016
quotequote all
I'd take the Challenge car, even with the stock JCW engine. These specials are all about fun, not so much about lap times. And once you've figured out how to drive it, then you can always add a bit more power, or indeed a lot more power with a proper remap. The VW's been taken as far as it'll go, but there's still potential in the MINI.

Edited by MaxA on Sunday 25th September 12:54

Mike1990

964 posts

132 months

Wednesday 21st September 2016
quotequote all
Love both, but given a choice I'd take the Clubsport S, it's shaping up to be a serious piece of kit. It was a fair bit quicker IIRC, than the 275 Trophy-R around Bedford in this months Evo Magazine.

Will we see an even harder Mini, the next GP?

AJB88

12,454 posts

172 months

Wednesday 21st September 2016
quotequote all
Dandanfings said:
To be fair the Cupra is Seats Clubsport, same engine and very similar setup.
A hotter version was released called the sub 8 if i remember correctly?
it was that much hotter it had the same power lol.

I have a Stage2 Cupra 280 running approx 400bhp with Brembo brakes etc. but at the end of the day its just a Cupra. It isn't a limited edition like the Clubsport S.

si_xsi

1,193 posts

196 months

Friday 23rd September 2016
quotequote all
I'm a die hard golf fan on my fourth now, but I would take the mini in these circumstances, it sounds evil!

MaxA

238 posts

145 months

Sunday 25th September 2016
quotequote all
Mike1990 said:
Will we see an even harder Mini, the next GP?
I'm looking forward to the GP3, but it's going to have to be pretty special, not just a two seater Challenge with +10bhp. I suppose that it'll come at the end of the product life cycle.

Leins

9,472 posts

149 months

Sunday 25th September 2016
quotequote all
MaxA said:
Mike1990 said:
Will we see an even harder Mini, the next GP?
I'm looking forward to the GP3, but it's going to have to be pretty special, not just a two seater Challenge with +10bhp. I suppose that it'll come at the end of the product life cycle.
I suspect that's exactly what it'll be, but with a fair degree of lightening and some suspension tweaks. If it's as decent as the first two generations then that's no bad thing IMO

Yeezy350

8 posts

92 months

Monday 26th September 2016
quotequote all
Fair bit of mention about the interior of both vehicles. Said interiors not pictured, when will PH learn to take a few more photos?

MaxA

238 posts

145 months

Tuesday 27th September 2016
quotequote all
Leins said:
I suspect that's exactly what it'll be, but with a fair degree of lightening and some suspension tweaks. If it's as decent as the first two generations then that's no bad thing IMO
You're probably right. I could envisage a GP3 with a limited run of 2500 globally, a (temporarily) unique chunder grey of some sort, a bunch of vinyl, 235-240hp, the sort of semi/stripped interior/back seat delete, and those slightly fugly diamond cut rims with semi slicks. And possibly Bilsteins again.