RE: Yamaha's new YZF-R6 and BMW's future vision: PH2
Sunday 16th October 2016
It's here! Yamaha has bucked the trend and put its weight behind the supersport class with a brand new YZF-R6. And like the last time it received a major overhaul in 2006, the firm has spared no expense when it comes to spec.
Now this looks exciting...As well as a new R1-style look with a gulping central air intake, the R6 gains a sharper and claimed eight per cent more aerodynamic fairing. On the technology side, the R6 already had ride-by-wire (the first bike to have it, no less), but it now gains six-level variable traction control, ABS and a quickshifter.
17,000rpm!The Vision Next 100 is described as BMW's plan for biking in a connected world and is, as you can see, very much a concept. Interestingly, BMW has designed the bike to be ridden by a rider without a crash helmet or protective clothing to "enjoy the forces of acceleration, wind and nature and be in touch with the surrounding world", which is quite a bold statement. Could we see a future where protective clothing is a thing of the past? BMW thinks so, although the clever part about the rider's suit is the fact it responds to the climate and either heats or cools the rider. Air conditioning on the go? We like it!
Is this the future of biking?The use of connectivity between the rider and bike is certainly something manufacturers are experimenting with for real word applications as Kawasaki recently announced. This concept talks about the bike identifying dangers and anticipating situations, which is similar thinking to basic systems currently on cars that auto-brake or warn when you are straying out of a lane, while the 'self-balancing' system is also a very real possibility as bikes do have an annoying habit of falling over.
And BMW in the currentMore current is the new K1600B bagger that was also unveiled. Basically a K1600GT that has been modified to give it the bagger look that is popular in America, the B variant is more of a Stateside targeted model than a European one but should make it over the pond if it floats your boat.
Yamaha's new YZF-R6 and BMW's future vision: PH2
Yamaha sees life in the supersport while BMW has its eyes firmly on connected bikes
Now this looks exciting...
The suspension has been upgraded with 2mm larger R1-style 43mm KYB forks while the 320mm brakes are also taken from the R1. A magnesium subframe and aluminium fuel tank also help keep the weight down to a claimed 190kg wet. There are no power or torque figures given, and spec on the motor is limited, but it does have titanium valves, a slipper clutch, a magnesium head and a redline that appears to be at 17,000rpm. Sounds like fun! More details will be released at the Milan Show at the start of next month.
BMW has been unveiling some concept models under the 'Vision Vehicles' banner to celebrate its centenary recently, and in Los Angeles this week Motorrad got in on the act.
17,000rpm!
The bike itself is a fairly far-out concept as the flexible frame is designed to be part of the steering system rather than use conventional joints and the engine is a zero-emissions unit, but it is interesting nonetheless. However, what's more interesting is the future technology it employs.
Is this the future of biking?
As for the information visor that is effectively a pair of glasses that displays info to the rider, this is also very real. BMW has been experimenting with a kind of head-up display that gives the rider vital information in their helmet's visor as well as even projecting holograms onto the road's surface ahead. When true connectivity between vehicles happens (and it will) this could certainly be used to identify dangers and even show the rider ideal lines through corners or warn if they are going too fast.
Will it ever happen? According to Edgar Heinrich, BMW's Head of Design, "Normally, when we develop a motorcycle, we tend to think five to 10 years in advance. On this occasion, we looked much further ahead and found the experience especially exciting. There are some very attractive prospects. I firmly believe the BMW Motorrad Vision Next 100 sets out a coherent future scenario for the BMW Motorrad brand." So not for a while then...
And BMW in the current
And finally, MV has shown off two F3 RC models. Basically they're tarted up 675 and 800s that are painted to look like the firm's supersport race bikes. Only 350 are slated for production and they come with a few unique parts and a certificate of authenticity, but the bigger issue is whether they will actually be made. There were a lot of rumours circulating at the Cologne Show (MV didn't have an official presence there) about MV's current financial state and the UK's dealer network is certainly worried about the firm's situation. Hopefully all will become clearer at the Milan Show, MV's home turf.
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Discussion
Gixer_fan said:
Rode a new model Monster recently - Ducati courtesy bike. Had good performance but didn't like the drive by wire. Analogue bikes for me so guess I'll have to stick to 10+ year old models..
Does it have a lag on it like cars have? 
Surely that'd be lethal on a bike in the wet?
So glad Yamaha are sticking with 600's - though I shouldn't complain about the demise of the 600 class (RIP Honda CBR600), as it's people like me with over-inflated ego's who buy litre bikes that are causing it. Can't help ourselves, even though a 600 would pee all over it on any decent twisty road in the country.
I do instruction at our local track here in Ireland, and have a Panigale S road bike and a K6 GSXR1000 race bike. But as a lovely benefit of the position, we get to ride loads of machinery over the year, and 90% of them are big bikes - everything from a KTM 1290 SuperDuke to all 3 BMW S1000's (RR, R & XR): I even got to ride an MV Agusta 312 just there on Monday - always a bike I've wanted to add to the 'lottery' collection! But the biggest craic I've had all year, was on a Triumph 675R back in April or May. Oh my cod - that thing was hilarious!!!! Nearly ran the thing out of petrol I was enjoying it so much, absolutely brilliant! And the owner didn't mind me riding the @rse out of it either, as he was able to get loads of pictures of it banked on it's side, literally being ridden like it was stolen (fair play to him!). Loved it so much, I was straight on eBay on my phone looking to see what prices they were going for - though sanity (and wallet!) did prevail and managed to calm me down before I recklessly hit 'buy it now'! Would be fantastic to have the money to have them all - the litre bikes for the ego's and the 600's for fun, but I guess I better just keep buying the ticket each week, and hope the numbers come up one day!
Good on ya Yamaha - long live the 600!
I do instruction at our local track here in Ireland, and have a Panigale S road bike and a K6 GSXR1000 race bike. But as a lovely benefit of the position, we get to ride loads of machinery over the year, and 90% of them are big bikes - everything from a KTM 1290 SuperDuke to all 3 BMW S1000's (RR, R & XR): I even got to ride an MV Agusta 312 just there on Monday - always a bike I've wanted to add to the 'lottery' collection! But the biggest craic I've had all year, was on a Triumph 675R back in April or May. Oh my cod - that thing was hilarious!!!! Nearly ran the thing out of petrol I was enjoying it so much, absolutely brilliant! And the owner didn't mind me riding the @rse out of it either, as he was able to get loads of pictures of it banked on it's side, literally being ridden like it was stolen (fair play to him!). Loved it so much, I was straight on eBay on my phone looking to see what prices they were going for - though sanity (and wallet!) did prevail and managed to calm me down before I recklessly hit 'buy it now'! Would be fantastic to have the money to have them all - the litre bikes for the ego's and the 600's for fun, but I guess I better just keep buying the ticket each week, and hope the numbers come up one day!
Good on ya Yamaha - long live the 600!
Arsecati said:
it's people like me with over-inflated ego's who buy litre bikes that are causing it. Can't help ourselves, even though a 600 would pee all over it on any decent twisty road in the country.
Not to start that argument, but do you really think that? I can see in certain situations that even a little VFR400 would keep up with a litre bike, on the tightest roads where you can't go hard on the throttle. Elsewhere, the litre bike will just walk away. Not that that really matters on a road bike. Some of the best biking fun I had was on a Street Triple this year. I got it as a courtesy bike from Triumph Newcastle and spent my time with it leaning it over and dragging my knee as far as I dared, and nailing the throttle through the gears. My 955cc Daytona felt a lot more serious afterwards! I'm ecstatic to see Yamaha keeping the 600cc Supersport alive though. It was, at one time, as closely contested as the full size sports bike class. There was as much cachet in having the best supersport as there was in having the best litre bike. It's a class I wish I had more experience of. I've ridden 600's but never owned one. I think they may be the perfect formula for road riding but I confess to being addicted to the blowaway power of litre bikes.
Maybe 'cos it has less torque than an electric toothbrush? 
RobM77 said:
Does it have a lag on it like cars have? Surely that'd be lethal on a bike in the wet?
Nothing like the monstrous lag you've suffered in your BMW. Surely that'd be lethal on a bike in the wet?Motorbike throttles respond very rapidly on the most part (aside from Harley hehe). That super light flywheel, low inertia feeling means you won't suffer much lag at all. There are occasionally flat spots engineered in to beat noise testing that you can map out with a Tuneboy, Power Commander or a similar device and occasionally it's wise to reset your throttle position sensor to make sure you're getting the sharpest response possible, if that's what you like. I'm sure some newer bikes are trimming the throttle demand through the ECU to limit air flow but you're generally given a level of control you don't get in cars.
Some people say they can feel the difference in a carbed bike and an FI bike but I've never directly compared the two. When I did my DAS, the bike school had a carbed CB600F and a matching FI model. I learned just before my test that I'd always rode on the carbed bike and arrangements were made to keep you on the same bike throughout the process for the benefit of familiarity with the throttle.
Loyly said:
RobM77 said:
Does it have a lag on it like cars have? Surely that'd be lethal on a bike in the wet?
Nothing like the monstrous lag you've suffered in your BMW. Surely that'd be lethal on a bike in the wet?Motorbike throttles respond very rapidly on the most part (aside from Harley hehe). That super light flywheel, low inertia feeling means you won't suffer much lag at all. There are occasionally flat spots engineered in to beat noise testing that you can map out with a Tuneboy, Power Commander or a similar device and occasionally it's wise to reset your throttle position sensor to make sure you're getting the sharpest response possible, if that's what you like. I'm sure some newer bikes are trimming the throttle demand through the ECU to limit air flow but you're generally given a level of control you don't get in cars.
Some people say they can feel the difference in a carbed bike and an FI bike but I've never directly compared the two. When I did my DAS, the bike school had a carbed CB600F and a matching FI model. I learned just before my test that I'd always rode on the carbed bike and arrangements were made to keep you on the same bike throughout the process for the benefit of familiarity with the throttle.
Edited by RobM77 on Saturday 15th October 08:15
RobM77 said:
Does it have a lag on it like cars have? Surely that'd be lethal on a bike in the wet?
Just found that it wasn't responsive to small throttle applications - like when starting off gently or matching revs on down change. Had to give it more of a handful. Maybe was just a heavier flywheel... Surely that'd be lethal on a bike in the wet?RobM77 said:
No sign of those pesky EU regs that ruined car engines affecting bike engines!
. Sadly, I was speaking to the chap who's designing Yamaha's new city car and was informed that sports bike sales were falling off a cliff in places like the U.K. As younger just aren't buying sports bikes any more and the dominant segment is becoming bikes designed for older bikers. Very sad if accurate but it's apparently why Yamaha are needing to widen their product base.
RobM77 said:
Thanks. Yes, my 330ci was about a second - a friend and I measured it - anything like that on a powerful bike in the wet and you'd high side it when going just a little quick, I'm sure. I did read a review in Bike magazine once where they got a very well known superbike racer to try the latest DBW R1, and he went off up the road and came back five minutes later apologising that he couldn't ride it because of the electronic throttle.
Everybody is talking about when they are new and functioning, hopefully, perfectly... Cables can snap, but electronics can and usually do get glitchy... The less electronics the better IMOEdited by RobM77 on Saturday 15th October 08:15
998420 said:
Everybody is talking about when they are new and functioning, hopefully, perfectly... Cables can snap, but electronics can and usually do get glitchy... The less electronics the better IMO
My brother is a highly experienced and quite well skilled rider. He's done millions of track days on various bikes and owns a 200 bhp at the wheel ZX10R among other things at the moment.He high sided his wifes Kawasaki Z1000 in March at the top of his street. It had 400 miles on the clock. Neighbors who witnessed it said the throttle jammed wide open and spat him off. Kawasaki denied anything was wrong with it. Fly by wire throttle. Scary thought.
SevenR said:
My brother is a highly experienced and quite well skilled rider. He's done millions of track days on various bikes and owns a 200 bhp at the wheel ZX10R among other things at the moment.
He high sided his wifes Kawasaki Z1000 in March at the top of his street. It had 400 miles on the clock. Neighbors who witnessed it said the throttle jammed wide open and spat him off. Kawasaki denied anything was wrong with it. Fly by wire throttle. Scary thought.
Oh dear, not good, hope he is OK, not nice to read that my paranoid conjecture could be a reality so soonHe high sided his wifes Kawasaki Z1000 in March at the top of his street. It had 400 miles on the clock. Neighbors who witnessed it said the throttle jammed wide open and spat him off. Kawasaki denied anything was wrong with it. Fly by wire throttle. Scary thought.
If that can happen on a 400 mile old bike, it does not take a rocket scientist to work out that it will get worse with age
What of Black Boxes too, when will they have an ECU that would show the throttle hit max in error and caused that accident
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