RE: 36mpg in a V8 Mustang!
Monday 24th October 2016
The annual MPG Marathon isn't typical PH news fodder, you're right. But it does become rather more interesting when silly cars take part. There's only so excited you can be about a Suzuki Baleno posting a 4.78 per cent improvement in official fuel economy, but a Mustang doing 36mpg? That's a story! And certainly a better one than PH managed in a Caterham last year...
Thanks to a remarkable 75.12 per cent leap from the official 20.9mpg combined figure, the 5.0 V8 Mustang won the competition for best improvement in fuel consumption at the Marathon. Goes to show the big, unstressed engine spinning at low revs can still be of some use!
36mpg in a V8 Mustang!
Who says you need an Ecoboost for decent economy?
The car was driven by an ex-works rally team pairing of Andy Dawson and Andrew Marriott. Apparently the Mustang was "perfect" for the event because of its "brilliant steering, handling and roadholding." That meant speed could be conserved, with little energy wasted on speeding up or slowing down.
So well done chaps, you and your Mustang certainly earned a line-lock burnout, some drag races and a few gratuitous throttle blips on the way home. It's nice to hear some good Mustang news too, what with the factory having recently shut down for a few weeks.
Finally, it's worth taking a look at the full MPG Marathon results too; an MX-5 achieved 55.79mpg (but was marked down with time penalties), a Vauxhall Maloo hit the heady heights of 27mpg and a petrol, all-wheel drive Audi A4 did 50mpg. Madness!
Discussion
Good to see Andy Dawson and Andrew Marriott are still 'out there' and involved. Think Andy was the first driver to give the Chequered Flag Stratos a victory when he won the 1976 Mintex Rally.
Andy's obviously got the same 'gentle' foot he used back then to nurse the Stratos to a win! Thanks to a total lack of interest from Italy the 'British' Stratos notched up a fair few DNF's in its day. Andy's win was definitely a highlight of the car's career.
Andy's obviously got the same 'gentle' foot he used back then to nurse the Stratos to a win! Thanks to a total lack of interest from Italy the 'British' Stratos notched up a fair few DNF's in its day. Andy's win was definitely a highlight of the car's career.
I don't understand the preoccupation with mpg in a performance car. Bad enough that you buy a sports car and the first question someone asks you is what mpg do you get but genuinely wrong when manufacturers give their performance models performance compromising long gearing just to improve mpg (e.g. Porsche, Lexus F models etc.)
So I'm reading this thinking it would be a bit more interesting to actually know what the event is all about (beyond the obvious), you know, what's actually involved. Bit annoying that the info is missing so off I trot to Google and find the website. OMG what a pile of dog s
te their website is! Utterly useless!
te their website is! Utterly useless! Bencolem said:
I don't understand the preoccupation with mpg in a performance car.
I think it's pretty relevant as I've always felt that performance and economy are linked as both are a product of how efficiently and engine is working. Of course some people will buy a high performance car with absolutely no consideration for running costs - how lucky for them! - but for others (myself included) it's a always a bit of a compromise. You can't always have your cake and eat it. Also, eco driving (hypermiling if you will) is a skill in it's own right, it's a very different discipline but it can be very satisfying like trying to beat your best score on a video game. 
Bencolem said:
I don't understand the preoccupation with mpg in a performance car. Bad enough that you buy a sports car and the first question someone asks you is what mpg do you get but genuinely wrong when manufacturers give their performance models performance compromising long gearing just to improve mpg (e.g. Porsche, Lexus F models etc.)
Don't be daft, it's not a preoccupation. I'm suprised you can't understand there are a lot of people who fit in the space between "1.2 corsa, either second hand or on finance" and "buying a ferrari by literally throwing cash at the dealer until they let you drive off with it, presumably to the nearest gold-effect wrapping shop". For these people whether you can afford the car and can afford to use it is an issue worth paying at least a little attention to. Witness RX8.Also, mpg is a terrible way of measuring things. Precisely because it understates achievements like this. On a long motorway journey I regularly do: my car will cost me about £20 in fuel. Going to 60 mpg or even 70 wouldn't change that figure by much. But justifying £50 (the result of 20 mpg), even to myself, is impossible. So as a daily driver it's out.
At 35 mpg? f
k it, it'll do.Excuse me, but what is the point of an exercise, the results of which are likely to end up being used by manufacturers to suggest possible fuel economy markedly better than the already overly optimistic official Euro consumption figure? Fuel consumption across the global vehicle fleet is falling rapidly, due to a combination or technology advances, legislation, and tax policies. (No mention of Dieselgate here please). One of the contributing technologies is the auto stop/start function fitted to almost all new cars these days. Safe enough when combined with automatic transmissions, but potentially lethal when combined with manual transmissions, when it can easily be fooled into shutting off the engine during slowing and gear-changing manoeuvres while approaching roundabouts. Being able to switch it off is fine if you remember, but it's easy to overlook it when leaving an airport rental facility in an unfamiliar rental. Much as I hate to admit it, the time has probably come to eliminate manuals from rental fleets.. Now how did I get to that again?
ramjet22 said:
the auto stop/start function fitted to almost all new cars these days. Safe enough when combined with automatic transmissions, but potentially lethal when combined with manual transmissions, when it can easily be fooled into shutting off the engine during slowing and gear-changing manoeuvres while approaching roundabouts.
How on earth can stop/start switch off the engine during slowing or changing gear? It will only operate at sub 4mph and when you're in neutral with your foot off the clutch. How is that lethal?Bencolem said:
I don't understand the preoccupation with mpg in a performance car. Bad enough that you buy a sports car and the first question someone asks you is what mpg do you get but genuinely wrong when manufacturers give their performance models performance compromising long gearing just to improve mpg (e.g. Porsche, Lexus F models etc.)
As an owner of an ISF, under normal driving, the car's mission appears to be getting to 8th gear as soon as possible - generally by about 45ish mph. I don't mind this and fuel economy is rather good - 22ish around town and up to high 30s on the motorway. Revs sit more or less at idle, maybe creeping to 1800 at 70mph. When out for a play, the abundance of ratios just means you don't use all of them - 3rd and 4th will suffice for almost every occasion.
I don't see the long gearing as a compromise, just means the car can be more of a jack of all trades. My S2000 is a nightmare on the motorway as it's geared for B-road blasts. 80mph is almost 5000rpm and makes your head spin after a while.
The new LC Lexus has a 10- speed box!
To IanCress:-Lethal because it can cut out just as you are depressing the clutch whilst slowing to a stop at a roundabout, then attempting to speed up to take advantage of a gap that opens up...resulting in a scary slow-mo coast onto the roundabout with the engine turned off, during which you are vulnerable to both a side-swipe and a hit from behind. Neither exactly ideal. The automatic prevents this happening...I know others that have experienced the same thing, and as a result always turn the stop-go off...Back to topic, i would guess that the latest multi=speed dual clutch boxes probably result in both better speed off the line AND better economy overall. How things change...
ramjet22 said:
To IanCress:-Lethal because it can cut out just as you are depressing the clutch whilst slowing to a stop at a roundabout, then attempting to speed up to take advantage of a gap that opens up...resulting in a scary slow-mo coast onto the roundabout with the engine turned off, during which you are vulnerable to both a side-swipe and a hit from behind. Neither exactly ideal. The automatic prevents this happening...I know others that have experienced the same thing, and as a result always turn the stop-go off
One of two things is happening here:1) You're rolling up to a roundabout in neutral. Nobody does this. You're doing driving wrong.
2) Your car is broken.
unpc said:
36 is pretty astounding for one of these. 30 is the best I've managed.
When I had one for the day: http://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?t=161...I managed the giddy heights of 13.5mpg....
ramjet22 said:
To IanCress:-Lethal because it can cut out just as you are depressing the clutch whilst slowing to a stop at a roundabout, then attempting to speed up to take advantage of a gap that opens up...resulting in a scary slow-mo coast onto the roundabout with the engine turned off, during which you are vulnerable to both a side-swipe and a hit from behind. Neither exactly ideal. The automatic prevents this happening...I know others that have experienced the same thing, and as a result always turn the stop-go off...Back to topic, i would guess that the latest multi=speed dual clutch boxes probably result in both better speed off the line AND better economy overall. How things change...
I've not driven a huge number of cars with stop start (only in various rentals) but I can safely say that not one of them have ever exhibited the kind of behaviour you describe (and all have been manuals). If hypothetically speaking I were approaching a roundabout with the intention of not slowing enough to stop so as to potentially exploit a gap in the traffic, I wouldn't be slowing enough for the stop/start to kick in. If I were slowing enough (sub ~5mph) and it kicked in it wouldn't be at a speed that would be a danger, it would be like walking at a fast pace and suddenly having to to stop becuase someone has stepped in front of you. That said, I shall repeat that in real life, stop/start has never activated on any car I've driven except when it actually should do.ramjet22 said:
One of the contributing technologies is the auto stop/start function fitted to almost all new cars these days. Safe enough when combined with automatic transmissions, but potentially lethal when combined with manual transmissions, when it can easily be fooled into shutting off the engine during slowing and gear-changing manoeuvres while approaching roundabouts. Being able to switch it off is fine if you remember, but it's easy to overlook it when leaving an airport rental facility in an unfamiliar rental. Much as I hate to admit it, the time has probably come to eliminate manuals from rental fleets.. Now how did I get to that again?
Have to disagree with you on this. All the manual cars I have driven need you to put the gearbox in neutral and release the clutch before the stop/start feature takes effect. If somebody is doing that approaching a roundabout they need to retake their test.However, it is really dangerous in automatics because it only works based on the brake pedal. Numerous occasions I have got to a roundabout had to wait for a gap and the engine stops just as I want to pull out. Utter madness, fine at traffic lights, not at roundabouts. I routinely turn it off when approaching a roundabout, then turn it on again afterwards.
I was wondering , how about they do a test how long a rolling burnout could you do in a diesel fiesta or a prius for instance ??? you could measure the smoke and how quickly you could get rid of the tyres using the mustang as a benchmark ....
Edited by powerstroke on Tuesday 25th October 18:13
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