Manthey'd 996RS ?
Discussion
As far as mods go, Manthey are the more respected outfit and so as such it should be no problem.
It will bring a little more performance if you are using the car as intended.
However, when it comes to the higher values, these are there for original cars. I guess I would be more comfortable if the modifications are reversible (ie the car also comes with a set of OEM dampers, exhaust, manifolds, etc), then you can have your cake and eat it.
It will bring a little more performance if you are using the car as intended.
However, when it comes to the higher values, these are there for original cars. I guess I would be more comfortable if the modifications are reversible (ie the car also comes with a set of OEM dampers, exhaust, manifolds, etc), then you can have your cake and eat it.
Just a map and exhaust, thus reversible. The standard ceramic cats are questionable with regards to their durability and longevity, the Manthey/M & M system should use metallic HJS items that are more durable.
If you're thinking of buying the conversion, I'd go direct to M & M and buy the complete system from them, and someone such Wayne from Chipwizards will give you a map equal to or better than the Manthey item.
If you're thinking of buying Oliver's old car, the conversion could be reversed (unlike the full monty conversion on the Mk1 which entailed the irreversible hacking of the engine cover to make room for the cold air duct and Cup filter)
I'm sure Wayne would have a standard map file he could download in to the ECU. To the best of my knowledge the Mk2 996 GT3 system is identical to that of the RS, with the possible exception of the manifolds (as the RS used what were effectively 997 Gen 1 GT3 heads with bigger ports) So the RS manifolds may be specific to the car.
If you're thinking of buying the conversion, I'd go direct to M & M and buy the complete system from them, and someone such Wayne from Chipwizards will give you a map equal to or better than the Manthey item.
If you're thinking of buying Oliver's old car, the conversion could be reversed (unlike the full monty conversion on the Mk1 which entailed the irreversible hacking of the engine cover to make room for the cold air duct and Cup filter)
I'm sure Wayne would have a standard map file he could download in to the ECU. To the best of my knowledge the Mk2 996 GT3 system is identical to that of the RS, with the possible exception of the manifolds (as the RS used what were effectively 997 Gen 1 GT3 heads with bigger ports) So the RS manifolds may be specific to the car.
There is some difference between the GT3 and RS cars.
As a data point, when I dyno'd both 996 GT3 and RS on the same day on same dyno, my GT3 produced 400hp and the RS 410hp.
We had another chipped 6RS there too (I don't recall if it had std exhaust or not) which did just shy of 420hp.
We had another 16 odd GT3 and RS cars there and on a relative measure these equated to fairly reliable numbers. Interestingly the 996 mk2s (another 4 cars maybe) all produced around 395-400hp with the other variants roughly bang on their book numbers.
In addition the larger air collector on the 6RS is supposed to provide an additional difference when travelling at speed.
As a data point, when I dyno'd both 996 GT3 and RS on the same day on same dyno, my GT3 produced 400hp and the RS 410hp.
We had another chipped 6RS there too (I don't recall if it had std exhaust or not) which did just shy of 420hp.
We had another 16 odd GT3 and RS cars there and on a relative measure these equated to fairly reliable numbers. Interestingly the 996 mk2s (another 4 cars maybe) all produced around 395-400hp with the other variants roughly bang on their book numbers.
In addition the larger air collector on the 6RS is supposed to provide an additional difference when travelling at speed.
Maybe I should have been clearer. What i'm specifically interested in is how effective the Manthey conversion is on a 996rs, what it changes and how that compares to a stock 996rs (rather than a mk1 or mk2). I guess one would have had to have had that done to a car or driven a stock vs. Manthey back to back in order to give an answer ?
Best guess : The Manthey manifolds use some fairly large diameter primaries, so you can possibly expect a slight reduction in torque low down (my experience from my black Mk1) but the increased flow available from the improved manifolds, better flowing cats and less restrictive silencers will allow the engine to breath more easily high up in the rev range. The ECU remap will have been optimised to take advantage of these improved flow rates.
To summarise, it'll sound better and pull harder at the top end. On the MK 1 the improvement in the engine's ability to rev between 6-8k was dramatic, however the standard Mk 2 revved in very similar manner between 6-8k rpm as the K400 equipped Mk 1. On that basis I'm doubtful the Manthey equipped Mk 2 GT3 RS will be be a massive improvement. In essence it's gilding the lily. However the standard GT3 RS exhaust didn't sound particularly impressive to me, IME the Manthey system will address that shortcoming.
To summarise, it'll sound better and pull harder at the top end. On the MK 1 the improvement in the engine's ability to rev between 6-8k was dramatic, however the standard Mk 2 revved in very similar manner between 6-8k rpm as the K400 equipped Mk 1. On that basis I'm doubtful the Manthey equipped Mk 2 GT3 RS will be be a massive improvement. In essence it's gilding the lily. However the standard GT3 RS exhaust didn't sound particularly impressive to me, IME the Manthey system will address that shortcoming.
Slippydiff said:
Best guess : The Manthey manifolds use some fairly large diameter primaries, so you can possibly expect a slight reduction in torque low down (my experience from my black Mk1) but the increased flow available from the improved manifolds, better flowing cats and less restrictive silencers will allow the engine to breath more easily high up in the rev range. The ECU remap will have been optimised to take advantage of these improved flow rates.
To summarise, it'll sound better and pull harder at the top end. On the MK 1 the improvement in the engine's ability to rev between 6-8k was dramatic, however the standard Mk 2 revved in very similar manner between 6-8k rpm as the K400 equipped Mk 1. On that basis I'm doubtful the Manthey equipped Mk 2 GT3 RS will be be a massive improvement. In essence it's gilding the lily. However the standard GT3 RS exhaust didn't sound particularly impressive to me, IME the Manthey system will address that shortcoming.
That makes sense to me. The Manthey upgrades were not as popular with Mk2 or RS - my guess perhaps because the power delta in the RS/Mk2 to Mk1 was greater than admitted by Porsche. Plus as Slippy outlines there wasn't a huge amount to be gained particularly with the RS.To summarise, it'll sound better and pull harder at the top end. On the MK 1 the improvement in the engine's ability to rev between 6-8k was dramatic, however the standard Mk 2 revved in very similar manner between 6-8k rpm as the K400 equipped Mk 1. On that basis I'm doubtful the Manthey equipped Mk 2 GT3 RS will be be a massive improvement. In essence it's gilding the lily. However the standard GT3 RS exhaust didn't sound particularly impressive to me, IME the Manthey system will address that shortcoming.
There is of course a more extreme conversion. If you reach out to 'Keep it lit' he has a 996RS that had huge amount of Cup car modifications, weight reduction, etc. His car is silly rapid
LaSource said:
That makes sense to me. The Manthey upgrades were not as popular with Mk2 or RS - my guess perhaps because the power delta in the RS/Mk2 to Mk1 was greater than admitted by Porsche. Plus as Slippy outlines there wasn't a huge amount to be gained.
Exactly. As your time on the dyno showed, most stock Mk 2's are producing 395-400hp, and the RS maybe 10-15hp more (though we'll never know just how much additional Hp that improved engine cover produces at speed) , whereas most standard Mk1's will make 360hp but not a single Hp more. Slippydiff said:
Exactly. As your time on the dyno showed, most stock Mk 2's are producing 395-400hp, and the RS maybe 10-15hp more (though we'll never know just how much additional Hp that improved engine cover produces at speed) , whereas most standard Mk1's will make 360hp but not a single Hp more.
Yep. The stock one we had there did 355hp. There was a manthey mk1 but it wasn't well that day and did even less. However the owner managed to figure out something was not right and had it looked into afterwards. LaSource said:
Yes, that's the one.
OK i was there then, mine was the yellow one that had an aftermarket exhaust from a local fabricator. Anyway, it turned in 389.5 hp and roughly 290lb/ft, Standard is meant to be 375/285.Stuart was there with his (named brand exhaust, changed the cats + map + air filter(?) and made 395 hp, not sure of his torque though
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