RE: Back in the 'ring: PH Blog

RE: Back in the 'ring: PH Blog

Friday 9th December 2016

Back in the 'ring: PH Blog

VW lops a couple of seconds off its own GTI Clubsport lap record; novelty still hasn't worn off for Dan



Plenty of people have long since given up on the whole Nurburgring sausage waggling lap record thing. If that's you then please accept my apologies. Because I haven't at all.

Not sure how I missed the fact VW's tame racing loon Benny Leuchter went out in October and, seemingly for no good reason other than he could, lopped a full two seconds off his 7min 49.21sec to record a 7min 47.19sec. Mainly by taking the rallycross line through some of the corners and going for a maximum attack, minimum mechanical sympathy approach. Still, whatever it takes!

I should be so over all this by now. But for a good few years regular trips out to the 'ring with a bunch of mates were a major fixture of my life. And though my visits there are now far less frequent the spell the place cast over me remains in place. I invested so much - emotionally, time-wise and financially - I just can't shake it.

I guess it's a car nut's equivalent of a soap opera. I have no idea what makes people tune in to - seemingly - slightly different versions of the same old storylines every night like clockwork. Much as they probably wouldn't understand while I'll stop everything for the seven minutes and whatever seconds it takes for the latest benchmark lap time round the Nordschleife. And the ensuing discussion that follows.


Like earlier in the week when a Tweet from Dale at Bridge To Gantry alerted me to that 7min 10sec lap by Sport Auto's Christian Gebhardt in the AMG GT R. The response to the story we posted on it followed a familiar pattern; initial 'woah, geezer, he's got brass ones' and all that before the usual 'yeah, but bet he was on trick tyres and/or had the boost turned up' conspiracy theories. This even extended to Dale posting a picture of what looked like a stack of slicks in the pits, later corrected when Gebhardt himself emailed a close-up of them to reveal they were in fact the correct Cup 2s. Just ones he'd, cough, scrubbed in on a previous session. Hero points not only restored but bolstered!

The 'because it's there' factor has inspired many admirable human achievements, not to mention a few pointless ones too. There may be some sort of internal politics behind sending Leuchter out for another lap time but, whatever the motivations, the combination of unseasonably dry track conditions and cool autumnal air has made for rich pickings if you've got a turbocharged car and a point to prove at the Nordschleife. There's some personal interest too because I met Leuchter at the launch for the non-S GTI Clubsport at Portimao and enjoyed some slightly daft laps chasing his Golf R. It was meant to be ducks and drakes instruction but when he started taking big bites of kerb I realised things were escalating somewhat and the high fives and giggling when we got back in demonstrated an appealing combination of competitive spirit and appetite for mischief. A jockey-like build probably doesn't do any harm when hunting for tenths either.

So, yes, 'ring laps remain my Eastenders or Corrie. And just as inexplicably addictive to me as watching sulky people scowl and screech at each other are to soap addicts. Each to their own.

Dan

Leuchter's latest lap

 

[Source: BridgeToGantry]

Author
Discussion

Monteverdi Hai

Original Poster:

23 posts

112 months

Friday 9th December 2016
quotequote all
I hadn't noticed from the manufacturers 'timed runs' before but do they all take the start of the timed run from the far end of the small pit straight and finish the 'timed run' at the very start of the small pit straight?
If not, that wasn't a complete(pedantic)lap.(99.99%).

That's a good second he lopped/cheated/duped off right there.

Let's get back to adjustable suspension (rock hard or silky soft chosen when the mood takes you) and in-gear acceleration(real world) performance comparisons rather than laps that encourage manufacturers to make cars that ride like karts.

tim milne

344 posts

232 months

Friday 9th December 2016
quotequote all
One curious thing about the GTi run — other than how it stayed in one piece after bouncing off every single kerb — was that it seemed to be topping out at 237kph (146mph) on the long straight. Now, I'm pretty sure all these 300bhp hatches are good for the usual German top-speed convention of 155mph, so does that mean this is geared differently?

If it is, how relevant is it?

Dan Trent

1,866 posts

167 months

Friday 9th December 2016
quotequote all
Monteverdi Hai said:
I hadn't noticed from the manufacturers 'timed runs' before but do they all take the start of the timed run from the far end of the small pit straight and finish the 'timed run' at the very start of the small pit straight?
If not, that wasn't a complete(pedantic)lap.(99.99%).

That's a good second he lopped/cheated/duped off right there.

Let's get back to adjustable suspension (rock hard or silky soft chosen when the mood takes you) and in-gear acceleration(real world) performance comparisons rather than laps that encourage manufacturers to make cars that ride like karts.
Ah, but that's the great misunderstanding - the GTI Clubsport S's 'ring set-up actually uses softer suspension to ride the bumps, as evidenced by Benny's driving style! And a rock hard chassis won't get you far round there, which is why these laps actually do count for something in the cars then sold off the back of this. See also the Megane and others.

And, to clarify on the laps, Sport Auto's measured runs traditionally start the clock at the exit to the 'T13' or Industry Pool pit and stop it at the entrance, missing out the short straight between them. More here in our interview with Horst von Saurma. VW also seems to use the 'industry pool' or Sport Auto time, likewise Renault for the Megane's laps and many of the other 'official' times like those by Lamborghini, Porsche and others.

Cheers,

Dan

Mike1990

962 posts

130 months

Friday 9th December 2016
quotequote all
I still find it interesting these laptimes, its all fun, i don't understand why people get there knickers in a twist over it.

Although it was a fair bit 'slower' on the back straight compared to the FK2 CTR, not that it matters though!

Edited by Mike1990 on Friday 9th December 17:10

anonymous-user

53 months

Friday 9th December 2016
quotequote all
Worth noting that this 2.2 second reduction in laptime is just 0.46% better than the old time. it equates to an average speed increase over the BtG lap of just 0.4 mph!

Effectively, unless were are talking F1 racing here, that's a small enough difference as to be statistically irrelevant.........

RacerMike

4,192 posts

210 months

Friday 9th December 2016
quotequote all
Max_Torque said:
Worth noting that this 2.2 second reduction in laptime is just 0.46% better than the old time. it equates to an average speed increase over the BtG lap of just 0.4 mph!

Effectively, unless were are talking F1 racing here, that's a small enough difference as to be statistically irrelevant.........
Use maths and statistics all you like, but it doesn't really come into it with a racing lap. I'm sure you'll disagree as you're coming at it from an engineering viewpoint rather than a drivers one, but there's a reason why the same drivers get pole position or a win every weekend and it isn't statistical variance. And I'm not talking F1 here...

Also, on a separate note, he miss shifts at 5min 39s, and probably looses about half a second or so!

wc98

10,334 posts

139 months

Friday 9th December 2016
quotequote all
nice write up and video dan. i enjoyed that. it seems the ring either gets you good on the first visit or not at all. i really don't understand the dislike for anything ring related by many on here. for someone like me that is a bit uncouth the place was an epiphany on my first visit. the sense of occasion and history was overwhelming ,almost as though i shouldn't even be on the tarmac (anyone that saw my riding on my first visit might suggest that was true).

i haven't been for a while now but still love the place and the people ,it really is a motoring enthusiasts paradise. good to hear dale is still on the ball, a bigger loss to uk motoring journalism than many realised when he buggered off to paradise for good ( hopefully that plug gets me a cheap rental on the next visit wink )

Gandahar

9,600 posts

127 months

Friday 9th December 2016
quotequote all
Thanks Dan, love seeing a hot hatch being spanked there like the Aventador also being spanked by the Pirelli tyre tester. It's not the time it just makes you look at someone going 10/10ths and enjoying the spectacle.

I do have to make one point, was the ambient temp 8C and they said perfect conditions for turbo and tyres? Marketing guys now say that less than 7C and we need to swap to winter tyres ... cough.... whistle


Where's this years winter tyre thread wink


Edited by Gandahar on Friday 9th December 20:36

Kawasicki

13,041 posts

234 months

Friday 9th December 2016
quotequote all
Dan, no need to justify your 'ring laptime love.

It's fun.

Onehp

1,617 posts

282 months

Friday 9th December 2016
quotequote all
Gandahar said:
I do have to make one point, was the ambient temp 8C and they said perfect conditions for turbo and tyres? Marketing guys now say that less than 7C and we need to swap to winter tyres ... cough.... whistle
No need for winter tyres if you warm your tyres first and then keep them hot by driving at 10/10ths. At first. Later on, you won't need winters because you won't be allowed to drive. Perfect.

Onehp

1,617 posts

282 months

Friday 9th December 2016
quotequote all
Actually makes for a good idea of how well a car handles (bumpy roads) and tells me more I want to know about a car than bhp and 0-60 times... And it's fun to watch.

Kawasicki

13,041 posts

234 months

Friday 9th December 2016
quotequote all
Gandahar said:
Thanks Dan, love seeing a hot hatch being spanked there like the Aventador also being spanked by the Pirelli tyre tester. It's not the time it just makes you look at someone going 10/10ths and enjoying the spectacle.

I do have to make one point, was the ambient temp 8C and they said perfect conditions for turbo and tyres? Marketing guys now say that less than 7C and we need to swap to winter tyres ... cough.... whistle


Where's this years winter tyre thread wink


Edited by Gandahar on Friday 9th December 20:36
and you believed them?

it's complicated, and people like simple stories more.

Dan Trent

1,866 posts

167 months

Friday 9th December 2016
quotequote all
Max_Torque said:
Worth noting that this 2.2 second reduction in laptime is just 0.46% better than the old time. it equates to an average speed increase over the BtG lap of just 0.4 mph!

Effectively, unless were are talking F1 racing here, that's a small enough difference as to be statistically irrelevant.........
Yeah, but this is 2016 and the post-truth era. We have no need of you 'experts' round here. Jog on, and take your 'maths' and your 'facts' with you! wink

Dan

griff7

765 posts

164 months

Saturday 10th December 2016
quotequote all
RacerMike said:
Use maths and statistics all you like, but it doesn't really come into it with a racing lap. I'm sure you'll disagree as you're coming at it from an engineering viewpoint rather than a drivers one, but there's a reason why the same drivers get pole position or a win every weekend and it isn't statistical variance. And I'm not talking F1 here...

Also, on a separate note, he miss shifts at 5min 39s, and probably looses about half a second or so!
Lol coming from an engineer maybe its like saying a couple of mm difference on a repeated precision engineering process is ok as its within a small percentage.

I heard the missed gear too and thought it must of cost him a little time.

Not sure 8 degrees is optimum for any sort of performance tyre ? but for a turbo engine then yes cooler the better so its always a bit of a balance but there must be a better balance than the conditions on that given day.

When you get to the sharp end of the stick around there over 2 seconds a lap is a lot even though it is a long circuit.

Kawasicki

13,041 posts

234 months

Saturday 10th December 2016
quotequote all
griff7 said:
Not sure 8 degrees is optimum for any sort of performance tyre ?
It's probably not far from the optimum, to be fair.

the tyre itself will be much hotter, with road tyres it is important to keep the tread temperatures down.

RacerMike

4,192 posts

210 months

Saturday 10th December 2016
quotequote all
Kawasicki said:
It's probably not far from the optimum, to be fair.

the tyre itself will be much hotter, with road tyres it is important to keep the tread temperatures down.
Hence why Cup 2's only have 5mm of tread to start with!

griff7

765 posts

164 months

Saturday 10th December 2016
quotequote all
RacerMike said:
Hence why Cup 2's only have 5mm of tread to start with!
I thought the cups had five but the cup 2's had just over 7 and hence were safer in the wet but still a very good all round tyre ?