Sunday 18th December 2016

Suzuki Swift Sport: PH Fleet

Back behind the wheel, Matt's only growing fonder of the sprightly Suzuki

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For reasons up to and including a horrid commute across south London (better done by train), some actual time on holiday and a couple of early Christmas parties, I hadn't been driving the Swift a great deal. Frustrating really, given it had been away for a spell after being driven into before I'd even had it a week.

Fortunately it's now fresh from a couple of longer trips, one just yesterday in fact. And the discoveries from this extended use are encouraging.

The blue one is staying now!

While the Swift Sport wouldn't be a natural choice for a motorway journey, it was really pleasant company for a drive up to Worcester yesterday evening. Beyond just getting the simple things like a good seat and clear dials correct, there are additional (previously unknown) aspects that make it enjoyable. The sat-nav screen has a GPS speedo, for example, meaning you can be super accurate (and usually a bit quicker) in average speed roadwork sections. And while it may sound perverse, the absence of lane-keep assists and blind spot warnings is another tick in the plus box for me. Not only does the Swift not require them because visibility is very good, it means that there aren't spurious lights and buzzers as you just try to drive along.

The touchscreen has large, simple controls, meaning you can switch between radio, CD and podcasts (or terrible 90s pop) without fuss. The cupholder is in a sensible place. Plentiful snacks can be stashed in the door bins. The fastest wiper setting is pretty damn fast. They sound like inconsequential things, so it's usually only when they're done badly that they're noticed. That the Swift gets so many right is a really encouraging sign.

Of course I'm not suggesting the Swift is some kind of miniature S-Class, or even a shrunken Golf GTI, because it certainly does have some problems at speed. The 1.6 gets a bit buzzy at a constant rpm, there's a fair amount of road noise and the stereo could do with being a bit stronger to drown them out. Oh yes, and it seems none of the lane hoggers who moved out of a Civic Type R's way (driven in the same fashion) want to make room for a Swift. Funny, that. That the biggest issue is how regularly the rear windscreen needs screenwash should show how accommodating the Swift is on the motorway. The idea of a Nordschleife trip to try the track-prepped Rent4Ring Sport is now even more appealing...

It was a fun drive to to Goodwood...

The other journey that stands out was down to Goodwood for the Sunday Service. Now ostensibly we were all travelling down in convoy, but I'm not getting up at 0500h to stick with a diesel S-Max. Sorry lads! But it was worth it, despite Kent to Goodwood not exactly being Dream Drive material. That being said, the last section into Chichester via the A272 and A285 is always good fun, especially early on a Sunday morning.

The Swift felt really in its element; the engine feels keener than it ever has (and hopefully there's more to come), most eager from 4,000-6,500rpm and easy to keep there thanks to a light, positive gearchange. Though the brake pedal is softer than I'd like the stopping power is strong and the whole car is imbued with this glorious sense of agility. Knowing this comes from an inherent lack of weight, not contrived by torque vectoring, trick diffs or sticky tyres, is hugely refreshing in this day and age. And means there are no nasty surprises. Honest is probably what you would call it.

So life is sweet with the Suzuki. At present it's going to be my Christmas transport though, which it doesn't look ideally equipped for. Not only is the boot rather small, the last car I took to my dear old Nan's for a family do was a Ferrari. What will the neighbours say to her when they see a Swift?

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FACT SHEET
Car: Suzuki Swift Sport
Run by: Matt (well, it's meant to be...)
On fleet since: October 2016
Mileage: 1,835 (delivered on 300)
List price new: £14,399
Last month at a glance: More miles (at last!) means more smiles in the Swift

Previous updates:
A Swift hello!
Doors for thought as Matt gets in a five-door Sport

Photos: Dafydd Wood

[lee_erm]

I wonder how the Zetec S 140 compares, that also has a fine chassis.

[renaultgeek]

What kind of RPM does it sit at on the motorway?

[gweaver]

renaultgeek said:

What kind of RPM does it sit at on the motorway?

~3100rpm at a Sat Nav indicated 70 (~74 on the speedo) I think.

[justa1972]

lee_erm said:

I wonder how the Zetec S 140 compares, that also has a fine chassis.

For me personally it compares a lot better !

I test drove a Swift Sport and have to admit I have been spoilt by turbo charged engines - it felt utterly gutless (and yes I know you have to rev it)

So I bought a Zetec S Red Edition with the brilliant 140 bhp 999cc engine. Cue jokes from friends until they actually went in it or drove it...

The fact that the chassis almost outshines the engine shows how good it is - in many ways its like an old school hatch but with more torque.

Its cheap as chips to run is great fun to drive but comfortable and quiet if you are not in the mood - Its one of the cheapest cars I've ever bought and without a doubt its one of the best

[Dr G]

Mrs Dr G working on getting driving licence currently and quite likes the looks of a one of these. If I then had to borrow it now and then that would just be a tragedy...

[Ilovejapcrap]

Really wish all the swift fleet updates could be kept together or follow on same thread somehow rather than different threads but same title makes reading them in order hard work.

I'm loving mine TBH, owned 1 month now.

Edited by Ilovejapcrap on Tuesday 13th December 18:29

[martin12345]

I got a 2014 SSS after having a 2012 Seat Leon 2,0l TSI FR
I wanted it to have a warm hatch with an NA engine before they don't exist

At the time I liked it a lot, did 20,000 miles a year including regular 400 mile trips in a day and it was totally reliable

The only disappointment I had with it was that the engine wasn't more "rev'y". It felt like the flywheel was too heavy but I actually think it was down to the way the electronic throttle is calibrated to meet emissions regulations (slowing down the acceleration and the deccel's to damp out spikes of emissions)

9 months ago I traded it in for a 2014 Fiesta ST for only £2k.

I was shocked as to how tinny the Fiesta made the SSS feel and how much better a car all round the Fiesta is
The Fiesta is faster, handles (even) better, more space, same economy and feels so much more solid
The only down side is the ride is rock solid, especially at the rear. But I'll take that as a fair trade for the handling
Even the engine feels more responsive even with a turbo

The shame is that in isolation the SSS is a good car, it's just nothing like as good as a Fiesta ST and hardly any cheaper if you buy 2nd hand

Shame really as I really wanted to love it but I couldn't - I liked it and I think it was a good car, but it wasn't enough. The Fiesta however is brilliant and one of the best cars I've owned or driven

[Ilovejapcrap]

martin12345 said:

The only disappointment I had with it was that the engine wasn't more "rev'y". It felt like the flywheel was too heavy but I actually think it was down to the way the electronic throttle is calibrated to meet emissions regulations (slowing down the acceleration and the deccel's to damp out spikes of emissions)

A company called ctc can sort that

http://www.swiftowners.co.uk/index.php?/topic/1090...

[Klippie]

Fiesta made the Swift feel tinny...I looked at the Ford before I bought a Swift it had an utterly cheap crap finish and feel to it compared to the Suzuki and was lots more expensive.

Suzuki's are cheap cars and good value for money, Ford's are cheap cars with a dear price tag look under the skin and see.

[martin12345]

Klippie said:

Fiesta made the Swift feel tinny...I looked at the Ford before I bought a Swift it had an utterly cheap crap finish and feel to it compared to the Suzuki and was lots more expensive.

Suzuki's are cheap cars and good value for money, Ford's are cheap cars with a dear price tag look under the skin and see.

I do look under the skin and I have no love of Fords as such (or any other make) - I've worked in the car industry for 33 years (designing engines) and i know how well Suzuki's are engineered and also what real warranty and reliability of Japanese cars is compared to Fords and other European cars is (interesting the Fiesta is a Mazda 2 under the skin (which is why it is so light for a Ford, the 1.6l Ecoboost started off life as the 1,25l engine in the Fiesta in the mid 1990;s and was designed for Ford by Yamaha)

I am not blind to what I am buying and I am not blinded by a love of any car make - I am simply saying what i feel as a person who likes driving and have always like hot hatches - GTE, GTI, XR3i, R26, Mazda3 MPS, Escort and Sierra Cosworth are amongst the cars I have had the pleasure of driving as well as much more exotic cars which I've driven but not owned through work.

REgarding re-chipping to fix the responsiveness - I am sure it may well do the job but with the mileage I do for work I like to keep cars in warranty so modding is not really an option

As I said I have a lot of respect for the SSS but honestly, as a drivers car, the Fiesta ST is just better for really very little more money

[VeeFource]

lee_erm said:

I wonder how the Zetec S 140 compares, that also has a fine chassis.

I looked at this car before buying my SSS. The relatively long 5 speed gearbox, rear drum brakes and more questionable reliability of a turbo and direct injection was enough to put me off. But it's probably the best rival currently out there.

martin12345 said:

I got a 2014 SSS after having a 2012 Seat Leon 2,0l TSI FR
I wanted it to have a warm hatch with an NA engine before they don't exist

At the time I liked it a lot, did 20,000 miles a year including regular 400 mile trips in a day and it was totally reliable

The only disappointment I had with it was that the engine wasn't more "rev'y". It felt like the flywheel was too heavy but I actually think it was down to the way the electronic throttle is calibrated to meet emissions regulations (slowing down the acceleration and the deccel's to damp out spikes of emissions)

9 months ago I traded it in for a 2014 Fiesta ST for only £2k.

I was shocked as to how tinny the Fiesta made the SSS feel and how much better a car all round the Fiesta is
The Fiesta is faster, handles (even) better, more space, same economy and feels so much more solid
The only down side is the ride is rock solid, especially at the rear. But I'll take that as a fair trade for the handling
Even the engine feels more responsive even with a turbo

The shame is that in isolation the SSS is a good car, it's just nothing like as good as a Fiesta ST and hardly any cheaper if you buy 2nd hand

Shame really as I really wanted to love it but I couldn't - I liked it and I think it was a good car, but it wasn't enough. The Fiesta however is brilliant and one of the best cars I've owned or driven

I also test drove the ST a few times, but as much as it's my perfect car in so many ways I just can't get past how buzzy and characterless the engine sounds. Ok so the swift is nothing like as fast but boy does the top end sound good and especially with a bit of selective soundproofing editing. The pitch of the engine note at the top end of the FiST sounds like it's about to give you the final 1,000 revs but then hits the limiter instead. I probably do place way more emphasis on engine sound than most (normal) people though so each to their own. But I have to say the way the power tails off at the top end also is a slight anticlimax.

I hope to somehow be lucky enough to access one of these cars for a few weeks as it's hard to be too critical of a car after only 30 minutes. Probably won't happen though and even if it did I'd be very surprised if I preferred it to the sss.

[martin12345]

VeeFource said:

I also test drove the ST a few times, but as much as it's my perfect car in so many ways I just can't get past how buzzy and characterless the engine sounds. Ok so the swift is nothing like as fast but boy does the top end sound good and especially with a bit of selective soundproofing editing. The pitch of the engine note at the top end of the FiST sounds like it's about to give you the final 1,000 revs but then hits the limiter instead. I probably do place way more emphasis on engine sound than most (normal) people though so each to their own. But I have to say the way the power tails off at the top end also is a slight anticlimax.

I hope to somehow be lucky enough to access one of these cars for a few weeks as it's hard to be too critical of a car after only 30 minutes. Probably won't happen though and even if it did I'd be very surprised if I preferred it to the sss.

I wanted to love the SSS for its engine (I had it for about 2 years) - I've spent my life designing and developing them and I morn the passing of the high revving NA engine (also had motorbikes for nearly 40 years - maybe I was expecting too much but to have max. power at 6900 and then the rev limiter cuts in at 7000 is wrong - you need to be able to have ~500 RPM past max power to use the power properly. That and the "emissions" flywheel effect meant it just didn't "do it" for me

On the Fiesta, you are right, the engine is nothing special, it pushes the car along very adequately but isn't a reason to love the car. The chassis is. Another weakness of the Fiesta is the fit of some of the panels and trim is laughable compared to VW/Audi. The gap between the bonnet and bumper is 2mm on one side and 4mm on the other. However just about all "great" cars are flawed. Bits of them are so good that you forgive them their flaws. In the ST the brilliance is the handling and it justifies the car on its own

[Ilovejapcrap]

martin12345 said:

REgarding re-chipping to fix the responsiveness - I am sure it may well do the job but with the mileage I do for work I like to keep cars in warranty so modding is not really an option

Some of these run the ctc remap.

https://mgreviews.com/2013/01/13/suzuki-swift-rent...

I think it's proven itself

[VeeFource]

martin12345 said:

I wanted to love the SSS for its engine (I had it for about 2 years) - I've spent my life designing and developing them and I morn the passing of the high revving NA engine (also had motorbikes for nearly 40 years - maybe I was expecting too much but to have max. power at 6900 and then the rev limiter cuts in at 7000 is wrong - you need to be able to have ~500 RPM past max power to use the power properly. That and the "emissions" flywheel effect meant it just didn't "do it" for me

On the Fiesta, you are right, the engine is nothing special, it pushes the car along very adequately but isn't a reason to love the car. The chassis is. Another weakness of the Fiesta is the fit of some of the panels and trim is laughable compared to VW/Audi. The gap between the bonnet and bumper is 2mm on one side and 4mm on the other. However just about all "great" cars are flawed. Bits of them are so good that you forgive them their flaws. In the ST the brilliance is the handling and it justifies the car on its own

Out of interest, would you have considered the remap at the time you had the Swift or would you be weary of such a thing being an engine designer which is pretty much as in the know as you can get?

Although I've read of the rev hang on the SSS plenty of times, I can't say I've ever really noticed it.

[gweaver]

VeeFource said:

Although I've read of the rev hang on the SSS plenty of times, I can't say I've ever really noticed it.

If you go up the box sequentially you wouldn't notice.
Try block changing from second to sixth at about 50mph - you might need a calendar to measure the time it takes for the revs to drop from ~5500 to the ~2000 needed to rev match into sixth.

I think the rev hang is related to EGR function? I can never tell if it's going to do it or not. It may be possible to drive around it by going to a balanced throttle before block changing up. Or maybe it needs a tiny bit of throttle position. I tend to double declutch when block changing up the box now - not sure if the extra drag from the gearbox helps bring the revs down.

[martin12345]

VeeFource said:

Out of interest, would you have considered the remap at the time you had the Swift or would you be weary of such a thing being an engine designer which is pretty much as in the know as you can get?

Although I've read of the rev hang on the SSS plenty of times, I can't say I've ever really noticed it.

I am very cautious about re-maps. They have the potential to improve an engine because they don't need to comply with all of the emissions, NVH, manufacturing restrictions that OEM's have to comply with. However the worry (and reality) of some re-maps is that they also don't worry reliability, durability and other things that OEM's worry about. The really difficult part is that apart from reputation it is nearly impossible to know who is how good, especially in terms of durability because it's hard other than forums to know the results. Even a warranted re-map like the Mountune for the Fiesta ST which I have considered but decided not to get even though it is a very reasonable price and the Ford warranty is maintained will put more strain on the engine and especially turbo which will in some cases shorten their life. In the pricing of the Mountune re-maps will be an element of "insurance policy" for the small amount of increased warranty cost Ford WILL have as a result of the higher loads on the engine

Mild re-mapping is likely quite sensible in the vast majority of cases and if you are not unlucky and get an engine/turbo at the weaker end of the range of production variability

Personally I modify my vehicles hardly at all, I spend my professional life "messing about" with engines and in the past cars. I know what can go wrong and I just want a nice, reliable car to drive around in - not a hobby. When I retire in the not too distant future I will likely start fiddling with my cars as it will then be a hobby, not a job. (Also I'll have some time to do it !)

[VeeFource]

martin12345 said:

I am very cautious about re-maps. They have the potential to improve an engine because they don't need to comply with all of the emissions, NVH, manufacturing restrictions that OEM's have to comply with. However the worry (and reality) of some re-maps is that they also don't worry reliability, durability and other things that OEM's worry about. The really difficult part is that apart from reputation it is nearly impossible to know who is how good, especially in terms of durability because it's hard other than forums to know the results. Even a warranted re-map like the Mountune for the Fiesta ST which I have considered but decided not to get even though it is a very reasonable price and the Ford warranty is maintained will put more strain on the engine and especially turbo which will in some cases shorten their life. In the pricing of the Mountune re-maps will be an element of "insurance policy" for the small amount of increased warranty cost Ford WILL have as a result of the higher loads on the engine

Mild re-mapping is likely quite sensible in the vast majority of cases and if you are not unlucky and get an engine/turbo at the weaker end of the range of production variability

Personally I modify my vehicles hardly at all, I spend my professional life "messing about" with engines and in the past cars. I know what can go wrong and I just want a nice, reliable car to drive around in - not a hobby. When I retire in the not too distant future I will likely start fiddling with my cars as it will then be a hobby, not a job. (Also I'll have some time to do it !)

Great post, thanks! As a mechanical design engineer I'd have loved to have gone into what you do, but my brain unfortunately seems to want to specialise at visualising technical things and isn't quite so great at the heavy maths stuff which is known to be fairly useful in engine design. Oh well, I at least still get paid to mess around with machines, just not cars.

[Zajda]

This is the best video demonstration of the issue by one of czech owners.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HsTQkumSgZE
At first he shows rev dropping on neutral after slow driving (still relatively slow), then after spirited driving (extremely slow). During next rev dropping he shows there is clearly a moment when the map changes from normal to "spirited driving" mode. Then he also shows that with high rpm the gearbox works more smoothly.

[gweaver]

VeeFource said:

Great post, thanks!

+1.

Regarding the Fiesta 1.0 Ecoboost, there are two different turbochargers for the different power outputs. The turbine on the 100 is made of cheese (well, Inconel alloy), and the turbine on the 125 & 140 is made of MAR-M246 alloy.
Some of the tuners will happily fail to mention this, whilst offering remaps from 100PS to 125/140PS and beyond. This is one of the reasons why Mountune don't offer a remap for the 100PS variant. It's not something I'd be happy with, but at least one forum member is. Depending on driving style and usage, YMMV (quite literally).

The other issue with remaps on the 1.0 Ecoboost is that the gearbox can't take the torque. It's torque limited in 1st & I think 2nd from the factory, and I've seen anecdotal reports of gearbox issues on remapped cars where the torque restriction in lower gears is removed. I think Mountune raise the torque limits on the MR165 package, but not the MP135 upgrade (which retains the warranty), but I don't think they remove the limits altogether.

IMHO the Fiesta 1.0 Ecoboost is hamstrung by the gearbox. The torque restrictions and long gearing mean that the engine doesn't give its all until licence threatening speeds are reached.
The new Fiesta is reported to be fitted with the stronger six speed box, so I'd expect it to be significantly quicker than the current model in the first three gears, which is where it really loses out compared to the lighter and lower geared/higher revving Swift Sport.

That said, the Fiesta is apparently better on fuel and makes more torque at motorway speeds in top, so it's horses for courses.

Edited by gweaver on Wednesday 14th December 21:14

[AW90]

justa1972 said:

For me personally it compares a lot better !

I test drove a Swift Sport and have to admit I have been spoilt by turbo charged engines - it felt utterly gutless (and yes I know you have to rev it)

So I bought a Zetec S Red Edition with the brilliant 140 bhp 999cc engine. Cue jokes from friends until they actually went in it or drove it...

The fact that the chassis almost outshines the engine shows how good it is - in many ways its like an old school hatch but with more torque.

Its cheap as chips to run is great fun to drive but comfortable and quiet if you are not in the mood - Its one of the cheapest cars I've ever bought and without a doubt its one of the best

Let's see what long term reliability is like for a 1 litre 3 cylinder which is probably almost always on boost. They don't exactly sound great either with the lack of a 4th cylinder.

I'll stick with the naturally aspirated Swift.