Car Care Warning
Discussion
Further to my thread concerning "wear and tear" I would like to let you guys know of my findings.
Basically my drivers seat bolster has become very worn after only 10 months and 8000 miles. It became apparent that it was going to wear away quickly as I did point it out at my 1000 mile service.
Anyway, Noble are point blank refusing to repair/replace this. I'm very disappointed in this but I can also understand their point of view.
However, so you are all aware, we all need to follow this procedure in order that you do not wear out the bolsters. Basically when getting in and out of the car move the seat back at first and then reposition as necessary. I know this may be a big pain but that's what the factory has told me. And make sure you get the passenger to do this on their side too.
I guess the alternative would be to actually fix the problem with better quality leather or another material - but hey I'm no expert.
Auto Interiors near the factory do all sorts of great stuff with the leather.
>> Edited by lucozade on Monday 6th June 10:16
Basically my drivers seat bolster has become very worn after only 10 months and 8000 miles. It became apparent that it was going to wear away quickly as I did point it out at my 1000 mile service.
Anyway, Noble are point blank refusing to repair/replace this. I'm very disappointed in this but I can also understand their point of view.
However, so you are all aware, we all need to follow this procedure in order that you do not wear out the bolsters. Basically when getting in and out of the car move the seat back at first and then reposition as necessary. I know this may be a big pain but that's what the factory has told me. And make sure you get the passenger to do this on their side too.
I guess the alternative would be to actually fix the problem with better quality leather or another material - but hey I'm no expert.
Auto Interiors near the factory do all sorts of great stuff with the leather.
>> Edited by lucozade on Monday 6th June 10:16
My driver's seat was worn on the outer side edge from a few miles - can't be helped I suppose as that's where your belt rubs on it when you get in!
Regarding moving the seat - this may be a good idea but rather cumbersone when inside a single car garage!
Isn't Alcantra better wearing than leather?
Regarding moving the seat - this may be a good idea but rather cumbersone when inside a single car garage!
Isn't Alcantra better wearing than leather?
lucozade said:
Further to my thread concerning "wear and tear" I would like to let you guys know of my findings.
Basically my drivers seat bolster has become very worn after only 10 months and 8000 miles. It became apparent that it was going to wear away quickly as I did point it out at my 1000 mile service.
Anyway, Noble are point blank refusing to repair/replace this. I'm very disappointed in this but I can also understand their point of view.
However, so you are all aware, we all need to follow this procedure in order that you do not wear out the bolsters. Basically when getting in and out of the car move the seat back at first and then reposition as necessary. I know this may be a big pain but that's what the factory has told me. And make sure you get the passenger to do this on their side too.
I guess the alternative would be to actually fix the problem with better quality leather or another material - but hey I'm no expert.
Auto Interiors near the factory do all sorts of great stuff with the leather.
>> Edited by lucozade on Monday 6th June 10:16
So what if you are tall and have the seat fully back as your normal driving position (as I used to), unacceptable IMO, the alcantara does not wear when leaving the seat in place so why should the leather? No doubt if the seat rails break because of this new backwards and forwards procedure then you'll be told you are on your own and that you should leave the seat in place at all times.
I've just had a new steering wheel put on the BMW under warrenty as the suede went funny, this is on a car that is 22 months old.
m12_nathan said:Not sure if that's a pro or a con to be honest. Surely it's appaling that BMW can ship a steering wheel that has such problems given the kazzilions they put into product testing, rather than they are "better" than Noble for replacing it!!!
I've just had a new steering wheel put on the BMW under warrenty as the suede went funny, this is on a car that is 22 months old.
BMW would have to replace that anyway, warranty or not, under the simple fact that they would be in breach of the Sales of Goods act!
The key thing "in law" is "is it reasonable for a product to last the length of time it has". Whilst you have a claim, under the SoGA, for up to *6* years on everything and anything going wrong, the law allows manufacturers leway in that it must have been "reasonable to expect" the item, or part of that item, to last.
Now, clearly a court would take the way the item is marketed, the overall standing of the manufacturer, and also what is deemed "common sense".
For example. It is reasonable to expect any TV, regardless of brand, to last at least three years, and generally to last at least five (as has recently been stated in case law). If your TV, even if it was a "Hiatsumadyvellycheaply" £60 special, went bang after two years then you would have a claim, regardless of what the warranty said.
For a BMW the view would be similar. BMW take great pains to market their reliability, quality, and engineering process. They therefore have to stand by that if it has problems, regardless of the fact that they "offer" a three year warranty as standard. Having a steering wheel that has quality issues after such a small time is not consistent with what would be reasonably expected, and so it's absolutly right that they replaced it (and probably do so as they are keen to protect their image in their very competitive marketplace).
Noble, as a specalist manufacturer, does not claim the same things, and nor would be expected by a "normal member of the buying public" to have spent as much on product lifecycle testing. Clearly there are some issues that have happened that it's reasonable to expect to have not, but as demonstrated on this forum many times, are just as keen as the BMWs to sort them out.
Key thing for me is that in reading the post by lucozade above, he seems to see "Noble's 'point of view'" about the seat. If he sees that, then what is wrong with Noble saying what they have?
We don't have many of the other leather seat owners that are on here complaining of the same, so perhaps it is related to how he's getting in/out of the car? Without knowing the facts it's impossible for me to say, but clearly the factory have given a "solution" to the problem. If that works for lucozade then IMHO that's good service.
There is always the option of getting it replaced with thicker/stronger leather - many people change / upgrade parts of cars that they don't like the quality of (how many of us have changed the steering wheel / gear knob....), so why is the seat any different?
All my personal opinion of course.
J
My 2.5 is getting near to 3 years old now and has 10,500 on the clock. There is still only a small amount of wear on my leather seats. I think you just have to be a bit careful getting in. If only I'd been as careful driving it yesterday. The front end doesn't wear well when you ram it into a muddy bank. D'oh! New front clam.
joust, the point I was making is that I do see Noble's point of view - yes.
However, I do take great care over my car as many of you would have seen at the factory owners day. It's always glossed up and shinny to the extreme. I also take care getting in and out of the car but unfortunately being over 6 foot does pose a few problems. The seat wear in my opinion is totally unaceptable and should have been addressed along time ago - it has not and since the dealer didn't advise either way I am a bit pi55ed off - even after 1000 miles it was looking crap.
I will fork out the necessary money to protect the bolsters but I do think it's fair to point this out to other owners or potential owners.
If the material is not good enough then we all need to be careful and it should be made clear at the offset.
Perhaps it's just the magnolia hide that shows up the marks a lot worse than others.
However, I do take great care over my car as many of you would have seen at the factory owners day. It's always glossed up and shinny to the extreme. I also take care getting in and out of the car but unfortunately being over 6 foot does pose a few problems. The seat wear in my opinion is totally unaceptable and should have been addressed along time ago - it has not and since the dealer didn't advise either way I am a bit pi55ed off - even after 1000 miles it was looking crap.
I will fork out the necessary money to protect the bolsters but I do think it's fair to point this out to other owners or potential owners.
If the material is not good enough then we all need to be careful and it should be made clear at the offset.
Perhaps it's just the magnolia hide that shows up the marks a lot worse than others.
jipsom said:
My 2.5 is getting near to 3 years old now and has 10,500 on the clock. There is still only a small amount of wear on my leather seats. I think you just have to be a bit careful getting in. If only I'd been as careful driving it yesterday. The front end doesn't wear well when you ram it into a muddy bank. D'oh! New front clam.
jeez jippy...your brief life of noble ownership is adding up a tad eh? sorry to hear mate.
On the subject of leather wear, for once, I don't agree with Joust...if SOGA is good for BMW, it is good for noble. One might reasonably expect the leather to last longer than it has, or otherwise be warned that it could require replacement/repair so early into its life. Of course, we may not be fully appraised of the facts and if lucozade happens to be particularly heavy, or do too much bouncing and rubbing around in the seat (?), then I'm sure Noble
could be seen to be acting entirely reasonably.
Mine has the alcantara and looks nearly as good as new (>3yr old car!) - maybe it should come recommended as the hard wearing option!
edited for spelling
>> Edited by kentviking on Monday 6th June 14:58
kentviking said:You are braver than me - I didn't want to make any assertions about lucozade's size or what he may do in the car!
Of course, we may not be fully appraised of the facts and if lucozade happens to be particularly heavy, or do too much bouncing and rubbing around in the seat (?), then I'm sure Noble
could be seen to be acting entirely reasonably.
As I said, I don't know the facts. I was just pointing out about Nathan's point that BMW replaced his steering wheel for wear after quite some time might be due to the relative views that the two companies have about wear on different parts may be related to the different ways that the two companies market themselves and hence that has a direct implication on a SoGA interpretation. Of course I might be talking twaddle and Nathan is just Mr Smooth when it comes to dealing with his dealer!
J
lucozade said:I agree with that
The seat wear in my opinion is totally unaceptable and should have been addressed along time ago - it has not and since the dealer didn't advise either way I am a bit pi55ed off - even after 1000 miles it was looking crap.
I will fork out the necessary money to protect the bolsters but I do think it's fair to point this out to other owners or potential owners.
If the material is not good enough then we all need to be careful and it should be made clear at the offset.
Perhaps it's just the magnolia hide that shows up the marks a lot worse than others.
My post was really in reply to Nathan rather than directly at yours.
J
joust said:
Of course, we may not be fully appraised of the facts and if lucozade happens to be particularly heavy, or do too much bouncing and rubbing around in the seat (?), then I'm sure Noble
could be seen to be acting entirely reasonably.
You are braver than me - I didn't want to make any assertions about lucozade's size or what he may do in the car!
As I said, I don't know the facts. I was just pointing out about Nathan's point that BMW replaced his steering wheel for wear after quite some time might be due to the relative views that the two companies have about wear on different parts may be related to the different ways that the two companies market themselves and hence that has a direct implication on a SoGA interpretation. Of course I might be talking twaddle and Nathan is just Mr Smooth when it comes to dealing with his dealer!
J
Nah, they just supplied the CSL with a suede steering wheel without bothering to test it for durability and sweaty hands caused by lack of talant
My issue is mainly that the alcantara is very hard wearing and so should the leather be. If it is only Lucozades car then even more reason to replace it FOC as it must be below their normal standard. The big lesson here is alcantara is better than leather
joust said:I agree too. The leather on mine (black) did wear quite badly over the first 1,000 miles and it's not uncommon... dealers might advise customers to go with alcantara.
The seat wear in my opinion is totally unaceptable and should have been addressed along time ago - it has not and since the dealer didn't advise either way I am a bit pi55ed off - even after 1000 miles it was looking crap.
I will fork out the necessary money to protect the bolsters but I do think it's fair to point this out to other owners or potential owners.
If the material is not good enough then we all need to be careful and it should be made clear at the offset.
Perhaps it's just the magnolia hide that shows up the marks a lot worse than others.
I agree with that
My post was really in reply to Nathan rather than directly at yours.
J
On the plus-side, once the leather had been re-connolised (only on the "bad patch", FOC by dealer) it was fine; I guess there's an element of the leather stretching and opening the grain?
Sliding seats backwards and forwards sounds like a bit too much effort!
AMG Merc said:
Isn't Alcantra better wearing than leather?
As you may, or may not know, I specced my 3R in alcantara and now, after 8000 miles, it is still unmarked (can't say the same for the carpets though)
I really am glad I went this route, and wouldn't hesitate to reccomend alcantara as the way to go. Martin.
So in summary this seems to be a problem with running in not only the engine but also the leather!
After 1,000 miles a bit of a re-connolise and all will be well.
That's what seems to be the concensus message coming out from those that had the problem but got it sorted.
On that basis I'd vote for it being down to the dealers to pay for.
Regards
Paul C
After 1,000 miles a bit of a re-connolise and all will be well.
That's what seems to be the concensus message coming out from those that had the problem but got it sorted.
On that basis I'd vote for it being down to the dealers to pay for.
Regards
Paul C
Gassing Station | Noble | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff