RE: F1's Button wants to stay at BAR
Thursday 28th July 2005
Button's drive for '06?A row is brewing in F1 -- when isn't there? -- over Jenson Button's contract, as the British driver has issued a statement about why he now wants to stay with BAR-Honda, his current team. This follows a legal row last year in which Button wanted to head for Williams, seeing it as a better bet for his championship chances.
F1's Button wants to stay at BAR
British driver says that Williams 'should understand'
Button's drive for '06?
The British driver, tipped by many for the top, is currently at BAR, where he is contracted to stay until next season, when he appears to be legally bound to go to Williams. Which hasn't been having a good year.
Button said that "Frank Williams needs to understand my desire to stay at BAR", according to Autosport magazine. "The BAR team is my best chance of becoming Britain's next world champion. For me, the best thing is to stay with BAR, not just in short term."
Williams maintains that it has a deal with Button, which Autosport understands was finalised last year after the FIA-recognised Contracts Recognition Board decreed Button should stay with BAR Honda in 2005. At that time, Button wanted to switch from BAR to Williams, but Honda has since bought 45 per cent of the BAR team and dramatically improved its F1 budget, while Wiliiams is almost certainly without a manufacturer engine deal for 2006 following BMW's decision to buy Sauber.
Sir Frank Williams said he has every intention of enforcing the arrangement to acquire Button: "We do have an existing contract with Jenson for 2006 and fully expect him to arrive at Williams in the due period of time."
But Button says that "everything has changed" from this time last year, when he wanted to leave BAR for Williams. He told Autosport he had "great respect" for Sir Frank and hoped that the two of them could behave like adults over the affair.
"I'll certainly be able to look him in the eye when I see him in the paddock," Button told Autosport. "We have quite a lot of history together, going back to before 2000, so we need to be adult about it and understand the situation. I can understand Williams's situation, but Frank has to understand mine as well. To be competitive next year any team has to be with a manufacturer that is fully involved. The position has changed a lot with Williams from last year. A racing driver's career is short, so you have to make the best you can of it."
Discussion
Who was the (not so) smart cookie that negotiated JB's contract with Williams those many years ago?
Seems now, like it was pretty short-sighted to tie him up for such a long time at what would hopefully be the period leading to the peak of his career?
Who is JB's manager - it's not his dad is it?
Seems now, like it was pretty short-sighted to tie him up for such a long time at what would hopefully be the period leading to the peak of his career?
Who is JB's manager - it's not his dad is it?
I also don't see how Jensen can look Frank in the eye. Not unless he crouches down, anyway. 
There is no doubt in my mind that Williams will force Jensen to drive for them if that is what their contract says.
In a way it is a complement to Jensen's perceived abilities that Williams are prepared to get legal on his ass (to misquote Pulp Fiction) in order to 'acquire' him.
There is no doubt in my mind that Williams will force Jensen to drive for them if that is what their contract says.
In a way it is a complement to Jensen's perceived abilities that Williams are prepared to get legal on his ass (to misquote Pulp Fiction) in order to 'acquire' him.
i don't think jb will drive for williams next year, in fact i would put my mortgage on it.
big frank is merely setting out his stall for negotiation purposes, if he's says he'll gladly discard him, then his compensation package will be perceived by outsiders to be less than if he says he is not leaving at all. also frank has to factor in what jb is worth? - if he thinks he's 10% better than webber ( and lets face it who isn't) then he will work out what weber has earned him in prize money, add 10% to it and put that as his opening compensation offer. also he is trying to negotiate engine deals and sponsorships deals, both of which will be more lucrative if they have a name driver, so he'll then add that to the pot, plus the inconvenience plus jb's salary, so £10m sounds the likely outcome.
i do think however, knowing what a hard bastard big frank is, that this will run and run right upto the eve of next season, in order to hinder button and bar as much as possible.
big frank is merely setting out his stall for negotiation purposes, if he's says he'll gladly discard him, then his compensation package will be perceived by outsiders to be less than if he says he is not leaving at all. also frank has to factor in what jb is worth? - if he thinks he's 10% better than webber ( and lets face it who isn't) then he will work out what weber has earned him in prize money, add 10% to it and put that as his opening compensation offer. also he is trying to negotiate engine deals and sponsorships deals, both of which will be more lucrative if they have a name driver, so he'll then add that to the pot, plus the inconvenience plus jb's salary, so £10m sounds the likely outcome.
i do think however, knowing what a hard bastard big frank is, that this will run and run right upto the eve of next season, in order to hinder button and bar as much as possible.
Sorry but Jenson will have to live or die by the terms of his contract. He can't whinge about the situation changing, that's what contracts are there to protect (both sides) from. If his "management" team weren't farsighted enough to include clauses relating to engine deals in the contract, more fool them.
You agree (or not) to a contract on the terms included in it. The contract is there to protect both parties. Button trying to wriggle out of the contract just because it *now* doesn't suit him is the same as the team trying not to pay him his wages if he doesn't perform to expectations.
I understand that Button wants to hop in the best car available, but he can't go around signing contracts and then whinging when it doesn't work out as planned. You sign a contract - you live and work by it. It's up to you and your contractual team to make sure that the clauses in the contract protect you adequately - seems as if two seasons running now Jenson's contracts have been completely mismanaged. If a particular engine deal was so important to Button then he should have made sure it was in his contract, end of story.
You agree (or not) to a contract on the terms included in it. The contract is there to protect both parties. Button trying to wriggle out of the contract just because it *now* doesn't suit him is the same as the team trying not to pay him his wages if he doesn't perform to expectations.
I understand that Button wants to hop in the best car available, but he can't go around signing contracts and then whinging when it doesn't work out as planned. You sign a contract - you live and work by it. It's up to you and your contractual team to make sure that the clauses in the contract protect you adequately - seems as if two seasons running now Jenson's contracts have been completely mismanaged. If a particular engine deal was so important to Button then he should have made sure it was in his contract, end of story.
PhilboSE said:And based on their risible efforts last season over who Jensen was to drive for this season......
If his "management" team weren't farsighted enough to include clauses relating to engine deals in the contract, more fool them.
(Edited for spelling)
>> Edited by JonRB on Thursday 28th July 12:48
PhilboSE said:
Sorry but Jenson will have to live or die by the terms of his contract. He can't whinge about the situation changing, that's what contracts are there to protect (both sides) from.
Not so Philbo!
F1 and many other sports are littered with contracts that have been gotten out of.
A contract is predominatley a financial undertaking more than anything else so as long as the loosing party are suitably compensated, there shouldn't be a problem - and nor should there be!
Button's efforts last year to weasel out of his contract might have been excused on the grounds that he was a naive kid who was being manipulated by his handlers.
You can only use that excuse one time, however. Britain's best hope for an F1 champion or not, the guy has now proved that he's an ass.
You can only use that excuse one time, however. Britain's best hope for an F1 champion or not, the guy has now proved that he's an ass.
flemke said:
Button's efforts last year to weasel out of his contract might have been excused on the grounds that he was a naive kid who was being manipulated by his handlers.
You can only use that excuse one time, however. Britain's best hope for an F1 champion or not, the guy has now proved that he's an ass.
I fear you're right there, flemke. He's not going to look too clever if there is another messy contract disagreement.
Having said that, I'll say one thing about Jensen. On the face of it (and by that I mean the Public face that mere mortals like myself see), he does appear to have knuckled down and got on with working professionally with a team that he made it quite clear he didn't want to drive for at the end of last season. I'm sure that if the same happens again and he is forced to move to Williams then he will do likewise.
The irony, of course, is that the team he didn't want to drive for is now built around him and is very likely going to be the better drive next year (hence him wanting to stay, of course).
Funny old world.
>> Edited by JonRB on Thursday 28th July 13:58
JonRB said:
Having said that, I'll say one thing about Jensen. On the face of it (and by that I mean the Public face that mere mortals like myself see), he does appear to have knuckled down and got on with working professionally with a team that he made it quite clear he didn't want to drive for at the end of last season. I'm sure that if the same happens again and he is forced to move to Williams then he will do likewise.
It's much easier to knuckle down with a team that actually ain't that bad after all - than it is with one that isn't really going anywhere at the moment (nad is looking worse for next year)!
Joe911 said:I think that most of us, if we were getting paid $10 million a year to drive one of the world's best cars and have beautiful women queueing to chat us up, would be willing in return to knuckle down a bit!
Having said that, I'll say one thing about Jensen. On the face of it (and by that I mean the Public face that mere mortals like myself see), he does appear to have knuckled down and got on with working professionally with a team that he made it quite clear he didn't want to drive for at the end of last season. I'm sure that if the same happens again and he is forced to move to Williams then he will do likewise.
It's much easier to knuckle down with a team that actually ain't that bad after all - than it is with one that isn't really going anywhere at the moment (nad is looking worse for next year)!
106rallye1 said:Bingo!
big frank is merely setting out his stall for negotiation purposes
Contract or not, it is impossible to force him to work for WIlliams. Some UK law that prevents people being forced to work for companies they don't want to. JB will be wearing Lucky Strike next year.
Not the most honourable of actions but you have to admire his single-minded determination to fulfill his potential. I imagine it would be easy to just take what's given to you when you're in that position (money, girls, cars etc).
Gruffy
steviebee said:
Sorry but Jenson will have to live or die by the terms of his contract. He can't whinge about the situation changing, that's what contracts are there to protect (both sides) from.
Not so Philbo!
F1 and many other sports are littered with contracts that have been gotten out of.
A contract is predominatley a financial undertaking more than anything else so as long as the loosing party are suitably compensated, there shouldn't be a problem - and nor should there be!
I'm afraid it *is* so.
You can't "get out" of a contract. Both parties can agree to terminate the contract - if they can agree liabilities and any appropriate compensation.
What you *can't* do is just say that the future didn't pan out like you thought it would and therefore you can ignore the terms of the contract. I don't think that Jenson will end up driving at BMW, and that there will be a negotiation whereby Williams are compensated. But unless Jenson's contract with BMW had clauses and exclusions relating to engine deals, then he can't pretend that the contract doesn't apply because conditions have changed. It does apply, and it is going to cost him big bucks to negotiate a termination.
There's a subtle difference between negotiating a termination to a valid contract, and just whinging about the fact that situations have changed.
However, it's probably the case that Jenson and his team know this, and their current position is just an early shot to try and minimise the amount of compensation they have to pay. It won't wash with the legal team, but it may keep some "mindshare" among the great unwashed for Button's position.
PhilboSE said:
I'm afraid it *is* so.
You can't "get out" of a contract. Both parties can agree to terminate the contract - if they can agree liabilities and any appropriate compensation.
Is it not that case that a contract can only be enforced if it is deemed to be "fair and reasonable" (in the view of a court) and presumably not infringing on someones human rights etc. etc.
Not that I'm suggesting that would apply in JB's case.
I can't see that the contract in any way infringes Button's liberties - he's signed a contract (or option) to drive for Williams and that's it.
Personally, I also feel that this is the opening salvo and that FW will do everything in his power to leverage the situation, but will still allow Button off the hook - perhaps in exchange for an engine supply from Honda in 2007 and 2008 (and perhaps Ant Davidson on a 2 year deal) but certainly for a decent lump of cash - £2m is a paltry sum in the F1 scheme of things.
Additionally, FW knows that Williams won't be in a position to win either constructors or drivers championships next year and won't therefore want to pay big wages to both drivers (IIRC Webber is on an escalating salary scale - starts off cheap, ends up expensive - typical Flav deal).
Personally, I also feel that this is the opening salvo and that FW will do everything in his power to leverage the situation, but will still allow Button off the hook - perhaps in exchange for an engine supply from Honda in 2007 and 2008 (and perhaps Ant Davidson on a 2 year deal) but certainly for a decent lump of cash - £2m is a paltry sum in the F1 scheme of things.
Additionally, FW knows that Williams won't be in a position to win either constructors or drivers championships next year and won't therefore want to pay big wages to both drivers (IIRC Webber is on an escalating salary scale - starts off cheap, ends up expensive - typical Flav deal).
Contracts can be broken. Ask any divorcee.
As I understand it if a contract is broken then "wounded" party is free to call the contract null and void and therby be released from his side of the bargain.
Additionally he can seek compensation from the other party for any loss.
The reason Button stayed at BAR last year was that both party's agreed to stand by the findings of the CRB.
As I understand it if a contract is broken then "wounded" party is free to call the contract null and void and therby be released from his side of the bargain.
Additionally he can seek compensation from the other party for any loss.
The reason Button stayed at BAR last year was that both party's agreed to stand by the findings of the CRB.
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