RE: TVR Sagaris loses its pipes
Tuesday 16th August 2005
TVR Sagaris: those pipes have to goThe TVR Sagaris is to get a bit more conventional, it would appear, as its distinctive side-exiting exhaust are to go. Instead, they'll be replaced by conventional rear-facing tubes as par of the company's bid to break the European market.
TVR Sagaris loses its pipes
Side-exit exhausts to point south in future
TVR Sagaris: those pipes have to go
The reason is that, as currently constituted, the music made by the pipes busts noise regulations wide open. By pointing the exhausts away from, rather than at, the microphones measuring the decibels in drive-by noise tests, the hope is that they'll help the car become acceptable.
The original Dodge Viper was forced to change to rear-exiting pipes for similar reasons.
Discussion
Dear me! 
What with the vents now blocked in, rumours of the vents being smoothed over (removed completely) and now the exhausts being 'standardized' it won't be long before the toned down Sagaris becomes indistinguishable from the T350C.
Looks as if it's going to be better to have one of the first off the line, rather than a later version.
PP
What with the vents now blocked in, rumours of the vents being smoothed over (removed completely) and now the exhausts being 'standardized' it won't be long before the toned down Sagaris becomes indistinguishable from the T350C.
Looks as if it's going to be better to have one of the first off the line, rather than a later version.
PP
PinkPanther said:
Dear me!
What with the vents now blocked in, rumours of the vents being smoothed over (removed completely) and now the exhausts being 'standardized' it won't be long before the toned down Sagaris becomes indistinguishable from the T350C.
Looks as if it's going to be better to have one of the first off the line, rather than a later version.
PP
I heard from a dealer on Sunday that the removed vents will be offered as an option, not as a standard fitment
Yeah think that is true.. if they removed them completely there would be a few complaints. That and the fact that it would look too much like a T350 must be clear at the factory surely..!
Even if they do remove the side exhausts there will always be companies willing to put them back aftermarket for a few squid!!
But I agree, you shouldn't have to do this.. you can't do that to people just because they weren't one of the first to order a Sag.
Note: Oh thank god Pistonheads forums are back online..
I've been having withdrawal symptoms.
Dave.
Even if they do remove the side exhausts there will always be companies willing to put them back aftermarket for a few squid!!
But I agree, you shouldn't have to do this.. you can't do that to people just because they weren't one of the first to order a Sag.
Note: Oh thank god Pistonheads forums are back online..
I've been having withdrawal symptoms. Dave.
bugsy said:
I heard from a dealer on Sunday that the removed vents will be offered as an option, not as a standard fitment
That's not too bad then - at least they're catering for different tastes.
Be weird to see a 'standard' Sagaris next to a toned down version though - vents smoothed over, tuscan seats, backwards facing exhausts and no spoiler/gurney flap (which is also an option now IIRC)
PP
If Only! I really don;t thikn they should be changing the design of this car so much!! The side exit exhausts are awesome! This is what TVR is famous for... leaving on lookers awe-struck...
If TVR are willing to conform to the 'norm' then they won't be really TVRs. It suprises me that they are willing to change things like the exhaust to comply with noise regulations, but not ABS or Airbags for saftey regulations!?!?
Taking away those exhausts and the reshaping of the body is a clear sign that the once perfomance and style focused TVR is no longer and this is the begining of a more profit driven company!!
TVR, stop thinking about tapping into different markets, and concentrate first on making the cars that you do make even better!!
If TVR are willing to conform to the 'norm' then they won't be really TVRs. It suprises me that they are willing to change things like the exhaust to comply with noise regulations, but not ABS or Airbags for saftey regulations!?!?
Taking away those exhausts and the reshaping of the body is a clear sign that the once perfomance and style focused TVR is no longer and this is the begining of a more profit driven company!!
TVR, stop thinking about tapping into different markets, and concentrate first on making the cars that you do make even better!!
Sod noise regulations! The side exhausts are cool and the Sagaris exhaust note sounds like a growling beast. I followed somebody else driving my car through traffic the other day and there was a fantastic menacing rumble every time they edged forward, with the exhaust sound bouncing off cars and walls.
Surely these drive-by tests are always at a fixed speed/rpm?
The way that other manufacturers 'get away' with stuff (like the SLR) is that there is some witchcraft occuring at the driveby/legislatory test speed, that closes a flap in the exhaust system, reducing the noise and therefore conforming to standards. Outside these set boundaries, the 'flap' opens and the exhaust is allowed free-rein to shout its lungs out.
Manufacturers have been using technology to circumvent legislation for years - surely its not too much to ask of TVR? Changing the exhaust position seems a little 'quick-hit-and-hope' fix for my liking.
P~
The way that other manufacturers 'get away' with stuff (like the SLR) is that there is some witchcraft occuring at the driveby/legislatory test speed, that closes a flap in the exhaust system, reducing the noise and therefore conforming to standards. Outside these set boundaries, the 'flap' opens and the exhaust is allowed free-rein to shout its lungs out.
Manufacturers have been using technology to circumvent legislation for years - surely its not too much to ask of TVR? Changing the exhaust position seems a little 'quick-hit-and-hope' fix for my liking.
P~
PhantomPH said:
Manufacturers have been using technology to circumvent legislation for years - surely its not too much to ask of TVR? Changing the exhaust position seems a little 'quick-hit-and-hope' fix for my liking.
Raise a hand everyone who wants to pay an extra £3k for their Sagaris to cover the costs of TVR developing a reliable, legislation-satisfying exhaust diverting system to meet these noise regulations.
Now raise a hand everyone who'd rather pay the current price for a Sagaris with rear-exiting exhausts, and then (if they want to) pay another few hundred quid to change the exhausts back to side-exiting ones.
Slightly missing the point, but I take where you are coming from.
IMHO (and it IS MY opinion, so I don't expect others to agree) if TVR are to survive/branch into other markets as any sensible business person will want to do, they are going to HAVE to develop their product to meet regulations both here an abroad. This include ABS, airbags AND regulations regarding emissions and noise.
Lets turn the question a little : hands up who would pay an extra £3k for a car that meets current legislation regarding noise, safety etc. (and is still around and road legal in 10 years time). Now hands up who would rather nothing changed, they saved £3k and in 10 years time, ther WAS no TVR and their P&J has been forced off the road by legislation.
P~
IMHO (and it IS MY opinion, so I don't expect others to agree) if TVR are to survive/branch into other markets as any sensible business person will want to do, they are going to HAVE to develop their product to meet regulations both here an abroad. This include ABS, airbags AND regulations regarding emissions and noise.
Lets turn the question a little : hands up who would pay an extra £3k for a car that meets current legislation regarding noise, safety etc. (and is still around and road legal in 10 years time). Now hands up who would rather nothing changed, they saved £3k and in 10 years time, ther WAS no TVR and their P&J has been forced off the road by legislation.
P~
Phantom - I don't see a car you can buy today being forced off the road by legislation. Yes, new models from year 2015 (or whatever) may need trackers/a man walking in front - but a 1970s E type will still be on the road.
I think it's crap that TVR have to change the design, but the rules are there and everyone complies by them, whether they like them or not. How about TVR offering an 'aftermarket' rear valance to Sagaris owners in Europe which results in the tailpipes needing to go back to the original position?
I think it's crap that TVR have to change the design, but the rules are there and everyone complies by them, whether they like them or not. How about TVR offering an 'aftermarket' rear valance to Sagaris owners in Europe which results in the tailpipes needing to go back to the original position?
targarama said:
Phantom - I don't see a car you can buy today being forced off the road by legislation. Yes, new models from year 2015 (or whatever) may need trackers/a man walking in front - but a 1970s E type will still be on the road.
You are (of course) right. As the previous post to mine was in the abstract, I presented my rebuttal in the same way
I have lurked around these forums long enough now (even pre-registration) to know that expressing your opinion can get your pants torched for daring to suggest something that not everyone agrees with 
Since my kids came along, I havebeen taking a really strange view on lots of things - one of them is the Sag pipes side exit. I love the look and sound, but every time I see them, I cannot help thinking, "I hope one of those is never driving past when my kids are near the curb.". The face full of fumes and noise might not be the best for kids who are almost at exhaust height.
4 years ago, I would not have given a rats'!
>> Edited by PhantomPH on Wednesday 17th August 10:30
I think the exhaust flap idea at a certain speed/rpm is excellento..
If TVR would do that it would cure everything.. If they change them to standard rear facing exhausts, the car will lose it's appeal in the foreign market i'm sure, so it won't really be worth it.. it will be even worse if the UK version gets the rear facing exhausts too.
Keep the design but bypass the law
Dave.
If TVR would do that it would cure everything.. If they change them to standard rear facing exhausts, the car will lose it's appeal in the foreign market i'm sure, so it won't really be worth it.. it will be even worse if the UK version gets the rear facing exhausts too.
Keep the design but bypass the law
Dave.
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