bad bad comment from a porsche site about bikers
Discussion
I'd say there were some prize comments from both sides on that thread.
Many bikers are sensible, careful riders who use the size and accelerative advantage of their machine to good effect whilst not endangering themselves or anyone else.
Others are "donors".
The same goes for drivers.
Overtaking a car stopped to turn right in/on anything is pretty damn foolish and against the Highway Code. Similarly not checking your mirrors is pretty dumb too...
Many bikers are sensible, careful riders who use the size and accelerative advantage of their machine to good effect whilst not endangering themselves or anyone else.
Others are "donors".
The same goes for drivers.
Overtaking a car stopped to turn right in/on anything is pretty damn foolish and against the Highway Code. Similarly not checking your mirrors is pretty dumb too...
This perhaps will stir some people up but having been driving now for nearly 20 years, the standard of bikers riding is pretty poor.
Not all are bad, but many are. Sure there are car drivers who drive badly, there are lots, but it constantly amazes me the amount of bikers who travel in your blind spot, undertake on motorways, overtake in front of on-coming traffic etc, really quite frightening.
My brother is a biker & even he says the standard of riding generally is poor.
I have no problem with them making progress when traffic is at a standstill, but what irritates me is that they seem to think that road rules do not apply to them. How often have you seen bikers overtaking into oncoming traffic? I see it all the time.
Its not about being jealous as mentioned in that thread because they can go faster & have only spent a few £k on their bikes, If I was that jealous I would go buy one myself as most bikes are cheap, it’s the danger they put themselves & others in. You are on 2 wheels, if you clip me at any speed you will be dead & I will only have a scratch in my bumper.
I love cars, wouldn’t be seen dead on a bike (bright purple leather isn’t my thing) & I guess the majority of bikers love their bikes rather than cars. But the way a lot of them ride makes me wonder how long it will be until they end up in a wheelchair, or worse.
Ro.
PS : I dont want to look like a Power Ranger either.
Not all are bad, but many are. Sure there are car drivers who drive badly, there are lots, but it constantly amazes me the amount of bikers who travel in your blind spot, undertake on motorways, overtake in front of on-coming traffic etc, really quite frightening.
My brother is a biker & even he says the standard of riding generally is poor.
I have no problem with them making progress when traffic is at a standstill, but what irritates me is that they seem to think that road rules do not apply to them. How often have you seen bikers overtaking into oncoming traffic? I see it all the time.
Its not about being jealous as mentioned in that thread because they can go faster & have only spent a few £k on their bikes, If I was that jealous I would go buy one myself as most bikes are cheap, it’s the danger they put themselves & others in. You are on 2 wheels, if you clip me at any speed you will be dead & I will only have a scratch in my bumper.
I love cars, wouldn’t be seen dead on a bike (bright purple leather isn’t my thing) & I guess the majority of bikers love their bikes rather than cars. But the way a lot of them ride makes me wonder how long it will be until they end up in a wheelchair, or worse.
Ro.
PS : I dont want to look like a Power Ranger either.
The problem is that bikers of old had to learn to ride properly, because on a 125 stroker you have an all-or-nothing power band, "interesting" brakes, and handling that a modern mountain bike would laugh at.
So you had to be careful about what you did and how you did it, because you didn't have the power, handling, brakes, or experience to get yourself out of trouble.
These days any idiot with a Saxo and a sum of cash can go out and do direct access in 5 days and then buy a brand new GSXR thou' on their way to the morgue.
Sorry to anyone who came through direct access, but my experience of DA riders is usually bad. Too much power, too little thought for consequences.
Just IMHO of course.
VS
So you had to be careful about what you did and how you did it, because you didn't have the power, handling, brakes, or experience to get yourself out of trouble.
These days any idiot with a Saxo and a sum of cash can go out and do direct access in 5 days and then buy a brand new GSXR thou' on their way to the morgue.
Sorry to anyone who came through direct access, but my experience of DA riders is usually bad. Too much power, too little thought for consequences.
Just IMHO of course.
VS
Not ususally over impressed with bikers,,,they seem more keen to try and race the Porker where as I don't really care for the game, knowing I have a track day to look forward to.
There are exceptions to the rule, but I generally look at bikers and van drivers as possible accidents waiting to happen, they both seem to have their own vague interpretation of the highway code.
There are exceptions to the rule, but I generally look at bikers and van drivers as possible accidents waiting to happen, they both seem to have their own vague interpretation of the highway code.
steve f said:
www.911uk.com/forum/display_topic_threads.asp?ForumID=12&TopicID=4469&PagePosition=1&ThreadP
ferrari's rule
you are clearly feeling a bit left out from your post porsche experience...
now there are SO many quotes from you on ferrai chit chat and 911uk that I could quote..... where would I start
agent006 said:
Nothing like stirring a bit of trouble in the morning eh?
Would now be a bad time to say troll?
Always works though doesn't it? Most people don't need an excuse to air their prejudices.
I commute on a bike and have a porsche (albeit an old one).
Overtaking a car near a junction is a massively risky thing to do, see it all the time but wouldn't do it myself because you can't rely on people to use their mirrors or even turn their heads.
I would stop if I scratched someones car while filtering and won't filter through gaps which I consider risky but I can't see anything wrong with filtering as a concept.
I also can't see anything wrong with overtaking while there is oncoming traffic while there is room. One thing that can make this dangerous is car driver wandering about all over the place and if I see a car not keeping left I will be a lot more cautious although I concede others may not.
As for bikes being dangerous and cars not being dangerous... that just makes me laugh. Lane discipline in this country is attrocious amongst car drivers. I've had cars (including porsches) pull out in front of me, change lanes in to me, deliberatly cut me up, all sorts. Rochambo, your generalisations are somewhat skewed.
Mark
>> Edited by dern on Wednesday 24th August 12:09
Perhaps I am a little older than most of the posters on here but I am glad that I learned my roadcraft on motorcycles before migrating (eventually) into tin boxes. VS - we could get straight onto a hairy 250cc at 17, pass a toytown bike test a week later then get onto something like a Z900 (I lost several friends that way), it wasn't clever. I like to think that my acute awareness of road conditions and driving situations is a direct result of motorcycling and having to share my road with wooly headed car users. I gave up superbikes when my children were born, percentages and all that. You have to be a lot more committed these days to become a motorcyclist as the level of training required is higher but it is not enough. I became a DSA motorcycle instructor for a few years to get my fix but now rarely throw my leg over over anything with an engine. I have forbidden my teenage son to consider a motorcycle as a form of transport when he reaches 17 (just as my parents did to me!), despite my feelings that it made me a better driver.
Everybody is right on this one, there will be good and bad bikers just as there will be good and bad car drivers. There is room for everyone out there - EDUCATION is the key.
ps - mr tolerance, me, but I have been stunned by some of the retarded opinion I have read whilst following this thread....
Everybody is right on this one, there will be good and bad bikers just as there will be good and bad car drivers. There is room for everyone out there - EDUCATION is the key.
ps - mr tolerance, me, but I have been stunned by some of the retarded opinion I have read whilst following this thread....
as a lifelong biker (had motorbikes since I was a child), and 911 owner, I have to admit there are alot of stupid Motorbikers out there.
I have been in the porsche many a time when a biker on a piece of jap crap has annoyed me for 10 mins trying to get me to race him, fools.
But as comments mentioned above, I am always wary of the vehicles around me on both bike and car, and I am very cautious of being in someones blind spot, my missus always does this on the motorway in her Landrover, it P**s's my off!
But in saying that, I think all new drivers should Have to take the CBT before doing their car test, the reason, it only takes one day, very hard to fail, will scare the hell out of you when they show you how much skin and bone you will loose when falling of a motorbike at 30mph without correct protection, and it will get all new drivers into using their observations 110% and understand what the bikers who are not up to no good, are doing and their actions on the road.
I feel that I am a better car driver having a full Motorbike licence, as when you are on a bike, you have to see every other road user as a threat, everyone is out to get you. most car drivers have the fase sense of security that they are wrapped up in metal rather than on a bike where you are open to the elements.
car drivers, be careful though, I nearly got taken out one day by a middle aged guy in a road rage attempt whilst on my ducati, waving his fist and everything in a nissan primera, I had my boots on, so i got out of his way, let him past, then drove up behind him and scrapped my Sidi's (motorbike boots) down the side of his shiney car booting it at the front as I accelerated away, not sure if I left a dent, dident hang around to see tbh, definatly got a scrape about 6 foot long though but that fool nearly killed me twice! once on a roundabout and then was trying to run me off the road on the bypass like 2 cm away from my rear wheel at 60mph, he deserved it, tool.
I have been in the porsche many a time when a biker on a piece of jap crap has annoyed me for 10 mins trying to get me to race him, fools.
But as comments mentioned above, I am always wary of the vehicles around me on both bike and car, and I am very cautious of being in someones blind spot, my missus always does this on the motorway in her Landrover, it P**s's my off!
But in saying that, I think all new drivers should Have to take the CBT before doing their car test, the reason, it only takes one day, very hard to fail, will scare the hell out of you when they show you how much skin and bone you will loose when falling of a motorbike at 30mph without correct protection, and it will get all new drivers into using their observations 110% and understand what the bikers who are not up to no good, are doing and their actions on the road.
I feel that I am a better car driver having a full Motorbike licence, as when you are on a bike, you have to see every other road user as a threat, everyone is out to get you. most car drivers have the fase sense of security that they are wrapped up in metal rather than on a bike where you are open to the elements.
car drivers, be careful though, I nearly got taken out one day by a middle aged guy in a road rage attempt whilst on my ducati, waving his fist and everything in a nissan primera, I had my boots on, so i got out of his way, let him past, then drove up behind him and scrapped my Sidi's (motorbike boots) down the side of his shiney car booting it at the front as I accelerated away, not sure if I left a dent, dident hang around to see tbh, definatly got a scrape about 6 foot long though but that fool nearly killed me twice! once on a roundabout and then was trying to run me off the road on the bypass like 2 cm away from my rear wheel at 60mph, he deserved it, tool.
"Purple power rangers"??? "Rider roadcraft standards are poor" "Bikes constantly overtaking into oncoming traffic." "Bikers gain pleasure from riding "cheap" machines.
Ro,
These are poor stereotypes of a visible but small minority. The overwhelming majority of us go about our business safely whilst enjoying the unique benefits and sensations of Motorcycling. You never even notice we're there.
In my experience as an enthusiast of both two and four wheels - riding has offered the more intense thrills for the very same inherent reasons it is more dangerous. For very obvious reasons to ride the reduced physical stability and huge power to weight ratio of 2 wheels well requires far greater awareness, self control and judgement than it does to steer four wheels from within a cage.
Most riders would consider comparing the length and expense of their peckers with porsche drivers on the public highway to be a pointless exercise.
On the bodycount front you guys should be worrying for our scooter-riding friends. Statistically the larger the engine in your motorbike the less likely you are to be involved in an incident!
Obviously riders would benefit from further tuition although interestingly the fatality rate PER RIDER is at an historic low.
If you could bring yourself to try the experience of riding you may just enjoy it.
AB
Ro,
These are poor stereotypes of a visible but small minority. The overwhelming majority of us go about our business safely whilst enjoying the unique benefits and sensations of Motorcycling. You never even notice we're there.
In my experience as an enthusiast of both two and four wheels - riding has offered the more intense thrills for the very same inherent reasons it is more dangerous. For very obvious reasons to ride the reduced physical stability and huge power to weight ratio of 2 wheels well requires far greater awareness, self control and judgement than it does to steer four wheels from within a cage.
Most riders would consider comparing the length and expense of their peckers with porsche drivers on the public highway to be a pointless exercise.
On the bodycount front you guys should be worrying for our scooter-riding friends. Statistically the larger the engine in your motorbike the less likely you are to be involved in an incident!
Obviously riders would benefit from further tuition although interestingly the fatality rate PER RIDER is at an historic low.
If you could bring yourself to try the experience of riding you may just enjoy it.
AB
roshambo said:
This perhaps will stir some people up but having been driving now for nearly 20 years, the standard of bikers riding is pretty poor.
Not all are bad, but many are. Sure there are car drivers who drive badly, there are lots, but it constantly amazes me the amount of bikers who travel in your blind spot, undertake on motorways, overtake in front of on-coming traffic etc, really quite frightening.
My brother is a biker & even he says the standard of riding generally is poor.
I have no problem with them making progress when traffic is at a standstill, but what irritates me is that they seem to think that road rules do not apply to them. How often have you seen bikers overtaking into oncoming traffic? I see it all the time.
Its not about being jealous as mentioned in that thread because they can go faster & have only spent a few £k on their bikes, If I was that jealous I would go buy one myself as most bikes are cheap, it’s the danger they put themselves & others in. You are on 2 wheels, if you clip me at any speed you will be dead & I will only have a scratch in my bumper.
I love cars, wouldn’t be seen dead on a bike (bright purple leather isn’t my thing) & I guess the majority of bikers love their bikes rather than cars. But the way a lot of them ride makes me wonder how long it will be until they end up in a wheelchair, or worse.
Ro.
PS : I dont want to look like a Power Ranger either.
DucatiGary said:
But in saying that, I think all new drivers should Have to take the CBT before doing their car test, the reason, it only takes one day, very hard to fail, will scare the hell out of you when they show you how much skin and bone you will loose when falling of a motorbike at 30mph without correct protection, and it will get all new drivers into using their observations 110% and understand what the bikers who are not up to no good, are doing and their actions on the road.
As you say, education, and car drivers who also ride bikes tend to be more alert/aware of other road users (sweeping generalisation i know).
It always amazes me though, when someone starts riding a bike and their family and friends start saying "you know, since you bought that bike i see bikers everywhere now".
Yes, they've always been there, you just didn't pay any attention before!!! Eeeek!
I also started on motorbike for 4 years before I got a car, I did not go through the direct access route, I did it the old fasioned way I passed my full bike test 2 years ago.
I am also not proud of scraping that guys car, I think it is stupid of me or doing it but if I met him again, Id chin him for sure and at the time, I would of gone medevil on his ass if he had pulled over.
The main problem motorbikers are caught up in accidents, well the statistics, is these stupid scooters.
they have no "get out of trouble power" no "you really need to stop right now" stopping power.
I have a friend (rides a bright yellow Honda Firestorm) who has been in 4 accidents now, All involving cars pulling out on him, luckily he has got away with jumping over the car rather than hitting it and no major injuries.
but the last time, there was a 20 odd year old lad in the passenger seat in a 106 who had some injuries becuase the bike went straight into his door, he reovered and is fine now I believe but if the car hadent pulled out at like 4 meters in front of a motorbike it wouldent have happend.
everytime I go out on the ducati I have at least one person pull out on me... ... ... I ride very defensivly though, if your near me and even think of doing somthing, I know!
I am also not proud of scraping that guys car, I think it is stupid of me or doing it but if I met him again, Id chin him for sure and at the time, I would of gone medevil on his ass if he had pulled over.
The main problem motorbikers are caught up in accidents, well the statistics, is these stupid scooters.
they have no "get out of trouble power" no "you really need to stop right now" stopping power.
I have a friend (rides a bright yellow Honda Firestorm) who has been in 4 accidents now, All involving cars pulling out on him, luckily he has got away with jumping over the car rather than hitting it and no major injuries.
but the last time, there was a 20 odd year old lad in the passenger seat in a 106 who had some injuries becuase the bike went straight into his door, he reovered and is fine now I believe but if the car hadent pulled out at like 4 meters in front of a motorbike it wouldent have happend.
everytime I go out on the ducati I have at least one person pull out on me... ... ... I ride very defensivly though, if your near me and even think of doing somthing, I know!
I stopped riding here about 4 years ago because i lost 4 friends in 5 weeks. In each case it was the car driver's fault ("i didn't see him" ). Kinda put me off a bit.
Every year when i go to the US though i ride a mate's bikes. Last year it was a TL1000R. Really brings it home though, how bad car drivers in the UK treat bikers. Well,i don't think it's intentional, i think it's just ignorance.
>> Edited by verysideways on Wednesday 24th August 12:45
Every year when i go to the US though i ride a mate's bikes. Last year it was a TL1000R. Really brings it home though, how bad car drivers in the UK treat bikers. Well,i don't think it's intentional, i think it's just ignorance.
>> Edited by verysideways on Wednesday 24th August 12:45
dern - why should on-coming traffic keep left just because a biker wants to overtake as they approach?
So car drivers should keep left to avoid a head-on bacause a biker decides to overtake in front of them.
So car drivers should drive over the drains & sh1te that collects near the kerb on most roads bacause bikers can't be patient?
I mean if everyone kept left going both ways then I am sure I could squeeze my car down through the middle, might give that a try & see how long I live. I mean its what bikers do isn't it.
Try reading the Highway Code, I don't see a section in there about "overtaking in front of on-coming traffic" - well in the Biker version maybe.
So car drivers should keep left to avoid a head-on bacause a biker decides to overtake in front of them.
So car drivers should drive over the drains & sh1te that collects near the kerb on most roads bacause bikers can't be patient?
I mean if everyone kept left going both ways then I am sure I could squeeze my car down through the middle, might give that a try & see how long I live. I mean its what bikers do isn't it.
Try reading the Highway Code, I don't see a section in there about "overtaking in front of on-coming traffic" - well in the Biker version maybe.
you are allowed to overtake, this is not against the law, im sure not diverting from a potential accident is in the highway code but bikers who are blatantly on the other side of the road, doing well over the speed limit are breaking the law for sure.
I rode a 2stroke 125cc Cagiva Mito for 2 years before jumping on a big bike, it could get out of trouble fast if needed (7 gears made this a little tricky) and probbably had better stopping power than the ducati.
I rarely use the ducati now, and it is because I know its only a matter of time before somthing happens. I drive real calm now on it, when I first got it, I admit I was trying to break land speed records but that wore off after a couple of months. you get used to the power and it stopps scaring you, this is when i started to polish it rather than drive it everyday.
I admit, in london those psycho courier bikes are a pain, I was there last week and they where zipping in and out of every where, I just kept out of their way.
>> Edited by DucatiGary on Wednesday 24th August 13:07
I rode a 2stroke 125cc Cagiva Mito for 2 years before jumping on a big bike, it could get out of trouble fast if needed (7 gears made this a little tricky) and probbably had better stopping power than the ducati.
I rarely use the ducati now, and it is because I know its only a matter of time before somthing happens. I drive real calm now on it, when I first got it, I admit I was trying to break land speed records but that wore off after a couple of months. you get used to the power and it stopps scaring you, this is when i started to polish it rather than drive it everyday.
I admit, in london those psycho courier bikes are a pain, I was there last week and they where zipping in and out of every where, I just kept out of their way.
>> Edited by DucatiGary on Wednesday 24th August 13:07
roshambo said:
dern - why should on-coming traffic keep left just because a biker wants to overtake as they approach?
I didn't say they should, I just said that if they aren't keeping to the left then I'll be a lot more cautious but that I'd overtake even if there was oncoming traffic if there was room and that, given that circumstance, I can see nothing wrong with it. If car drivers move to the left to let me pass (and many do) then that's a bonus and I thank them with a wave unless I need the hand to control the bike.
roshambo said:
So car drivers should keep left to avoid a head-on bacause a biker decides to overtake in front of them.
So car drivers should drive over the drains & sh1te that collects near the kerb on most roads bacause bikers can't be patient?
I mean if everyone kept left going both ways then I am sure I could squeeze my car down through the middle, might give that a try & see how long I live. I mean its what bikers do isn't it.
Try reading the Highway Code, I don't see a section in there about "overtaking in front of on-coming traffic" - well in the Biker version maybe.
I didn't say you should keep left did I roshambo? I merely said that if cars drivers do and there is room then there's nothing wrong with overtaking in the face of oncoming traffic if there is room.
Mark
>> Edited by dern on Wednesday 24th August 13:26
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